Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 36

Thread: Retraining indicated for Chesterfield Officer(s)

  1. #1
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614

    Post imported post

    Please let me state up front that this is not LEO bashing. A vast majority of my contact with Chesterfield police officers have been positive. All previous contacts have ended well or were non-events.

    It had to happen someday though and it did in a rather unique way. I stopped at Food Lion where I have shopped at the same location for over 25 years - before it was even Food Lion and yes I was OCing as always.

    The night manager who knows me by sight called me over as I entered (after 9 PM) and asked me if I was a LEO. Then he asked if I had a permit for that. I expained that none was required in Virginia and gave him an OCDO info card. He looked at it and said fine but he had been advised that carrying that way was illegal in Virginia.

    After a few more minutes of conversation where he assured me he was not asking me to leave if OC was legal, I suggested that he call the Chesterfield PD non-emergency number. Imagine my shock when, another manager came back from the phone and informed me that "a woman" from CPD had told him that it was indeed illegal!

    We agreed to call back and make sure that we got an officer and not a dispatcher. We in fact were connected to the front desk and Officer Xxx. The manager spoke to him first and it was obvious that he was getting the same information as before. I spoke to this officer who tried to explain to me that the store could ask me to leave if they wanted to. Exasperation! I patiently told him that was not the question - the only question was regarding the legality of open carrying a firearm in Virginia.

    Could not believe my own ears at what I heard next! It is not legal in Chesterfield County I was told - the county has an ordinance against that. I asked to speak to his supervisor , someone familiar with state preemption. When I heard that no supervisor was available to speak to me right then, I asked if I drove up to the county complex and waited until one was available, would they talk to me then? His response - if you do so you'll be arrested on the spot.

    In hind sight that may have been the best thing I could have done but instead I requested an officer at Food Lion. You would have thought that if there had been a real problem, one would have been sent without my even mentioning it. Went outside to wait for the officer. After half an hour, I went in Pino's where I suspected that several officers were eating - there were two CPD cruisers parked in front.

    I spoke to Officer People and a second officer with him. They said that they had heard the radio traffic and after hearing my brief explanation, they said I was legal and good to go. Talked at length with Food Lion mgr. re this conversation - his dilemma was that he didn't hear it from Officer People and had been told personally by Officer Xxx that it OC was illegal in Chesterfield County.

    Back home after 10:30 - tired and hungry - called Officer Xxx to ask him his first name and badge number. He asked if I was going to file a formal complaint as he had checked the cite after we talked and he was wrong and even apologized. I said that I would not file a complaint if I received a letter with a copy to Food Lion correcting the faulty information as this would clear the way for me to shop there again. He said the only thing he would do was offer a verbal apology to me - "good bye" - and hung up on me!

    Next day called the Police Chief (out of town), referred to the Uniform Commander (gone for the day) and to a Sgt who called me back, listened and took notes - said he'd get back to me. He did on Tuesday evening and informed me that after Officer Xxx had talked to me the last time Sunday evening that he (Officer Xxx) had called Food Lion and talked to the mgr in question and straightened everything out.

    OK - so I'm back to Food Lion to see the mgr - and no he hadn't talked to anybody from Chesterfield PD. Checked with the mgr tonight (Wed) just to make sure. BTW - yes I am OCing each and every time. No he hadn't heard or talked to any officer regarding the situation. Is Chesterfield PD trying to sweep this aside - I honestly don't know but we will find out.

    Now the punch line not previously mentioned - this was the first opportunity to use my new digital recorder and did it do it's job! Yes I am filing a formal complaint against Officer Xxx and a nice letter of commendation for a very professional Officer People.

    When and if I get a response from Chesterfield, I will advise here.

    BTW - problem solved with Food Lion after meeting with the day mgr through an extremely competant spokesperson/advocate. Day mgr, was very cordial and understood Va. gun laws very well and yes I was welcome to continue shopping there.

    Yata hey edited for typos
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Mechanicsville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    269

    Post imported post

    That's great Grapeshot. You need to get the recording posted so we can listen to Officer Xxx's response!...or lack there of!!!

  3. #3
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614

    Post imported post

    Infidel wrote:
    That's great Grapeshot. You need to get the recording posted so we can listen to Officer Xxx's response!...or lack there of!!!
    After the dust settles, we shall see. It's over an hour long with long periods of traffic sounds as I await the did-not-show officer. I strongly suspect that Officer People called in and had it cancelled. Have thought about filing a FOI request but have not done so yet.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  4. #4
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Well done! That's exactly how I would have handled this, had it been me. A problem was created by a misunderstanding of the law by a police officer, you patiently, professionally, *and tenaciously* worked through the problem, and fixed it.

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614

    Post imported post

    VCDL President wrote:
    Well done! That's exactly how I would have handled this, had it been me. A problem was created by a misunderstanding of the law by a police officer, you patiently, professionally, *and tenaciously* worked through the problem, and fixed it.
    I appreciate your very kind words, sir This one was easy compared to others about which I have read.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    13,580

    Post imported post

    Well done Grapeshot!

    My experience with Chesterfield and Henrico Dispatchers and Desk Officers has been that they tell you what they want.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Powhatan, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    57

    Post imported post

    Until we moved to Powhatan, we lived right down the road. I shopped that food lion OC'ing at least 4 times a week. In fact I wouldn't shop there unless I was armed. I never had any type of problem except with a cashier who put her personal feelings as company policy. She was terminated the next day for something unrelated. I'm fairly certain that the PD was called once after I exited the store to find two patrol cars talking to a gentleman who had given me some pretty intense looks while in the store. The gentleman pointed to me as he was talking to the officers. After a couple of seconds the patrol cars left and I loaded my groceries and left also. No-one even approached me concerning anything and I drove off leaving the disgruntled gentleman standing next to his car. All in all I have had very good experiences with Chesterfield PD, but I'm so glad to be in Powhatan.
    I guess there are misinformed people everywhere.

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Henrico County ,
    Posts
    537

    Post imported post

    Please keep us informed about your experience with the internal affairs process and results. My experience with Henrico Internal Affairs was surprisingly good. I grew up in Chesterfield, though - and am curious.

  9. #9
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,614

    Post imported post

    It has taken me the better part of a week to talk to all of Food Lion's managers - not one of them has talked to or heard of anybody talking to Officer Xxx regarding correcting his original statement.

    So the promised letter(s) have been sent to Col.Thierry G. Dupuis, Chief of Police.

    1) Filing a formal complaint for inclusion in Officer Xxx's personnel file
    a - Incorrect/faulty info advising OC illegal in Chesterfield Co.
    b - Telling me I would be arrested if I came to main station carrying
    c - Did not give me his badge number & hung up on me.

    2) Retraining of all personnel regarding OC, CC, State law re weapons
    a - OC legal
    b - State preemption
    3) Requested letters to myself and Food Lion
    a - That OC is legal
    b - Apologizing for the inconvenience, public embarrassment and humiliation
    to me.

    I further advised Col. Dupuis, that which I had not previous disclosed, that I had a digital recording which i would be willing to share confirming my allegations.

    Also included was a letter of thanks/commendation to the two LEOs at Pino's.

    Now we wait and see.

    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Grape, good work!

  11. #11
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    Grapeshot wrote:
    Yata hey
    A+

    What the hay

  12. #12
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:

  13. #13
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?

  14. #14
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    Right here:

    http://www.vcdl.org/join.html

    You can join online or print out an application and mail it in...


  15. #15
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    VCDL President wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    Right here:

    http://www.vcdl.org/join.html

    You can join online or print out an application and mail it in...
    You're up waaaay too late for a responsible person:^)!! You know this is going to be the first time I've plunked down money for anything other than myself in a decade, or more! But VCDL and OCDO are groups that I've come to truly believe in, imperfect as they are :^)!

    I'm in no hurry so I'll send you a check to save you the credit card fees, rapists that they are...... I have a merchant account myself and know all about the bastards.

  16. #16
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    Right here:

    http://www.vcdl.org/join.html

    You can join online or print out an application and mail it in...
    You're up waaaay too late for a responsible person:^)!! You know this is going to be the first time I've plunked down money for anything other than myself in a decade, or more! But VCDL and OCDO are groups that I've come to truly believe in, imperfect as they are :^)!

    I'm in no hurry so I'll send you a check to save you the credit card fees, rapists that they are...... I have a merchant account myself and know all about the bastards.
    I have an alarm that wakes me up anytime the phrase "how do I join VCDL" appears anywhere on the Internet.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Virginia USA, ,
    Posts
    1,688

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    If thats the case, pay for another persons membership as well

  18. #18
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    hsmith wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    If thats the case, pay for another persons membership as well
    I thought of that actually. But everyone I know makes more money than me and I don't do financial favors for people that make more money than me :^). I was thinking of donating to the PAC and legal defense fund, if there is one.

  19. #19
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    That recording will get somebody's attention - no brushing this off as a he said-he said. :what:
    Dear Phillip:

    I've decided to become a VCDL member, but $25 is too cheap a price to pay for membership in such an elite club, where do I sign up :^)?
    If thats the case, pay for another persons membership as well
    I thought of that actually. But everyone I know makes more money than me and I don't do financial favors for people that make more money than me :^). I was thinking of donating to the PAC and legal defense fund, if there is one.
    The VCDL-PAC, with elections coming next year for state offices, needs donations.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,228

    Post imported post

    VCDL President wrote:
    The VCDL-PAC, with elections coming next year for state offices, needs donations.
    I remember that from the application. Is there a legal defense fund for carry issues for those who can't afford a decent lawyer?

  21. #21
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Midlothian, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    596

    Post imported post

    Neplusultra wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    The VCDL-PAC, with elections coming next year for state offices, needs donations.
    I remember that from the application. Is there a legal defense fund for carry issues for those who can't afford a decent lawyer?
    We look at those issues on a case-by-case basis and raise money for them accordingly.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Centreville, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    152

    Post imported post

    Unfortunatelythere is little to no training on gun laws atmost police academies in Virginia. Many years ago I was a police officer inNorthern Virginia and can say from my experiencethatthere wasnot anyspecific training on gun laws during my Academy law class. So as far as guns go wecoveredgun safety, firearms training at the range, felony stops, weapons searches,arrest procedures,gun awareness, and other related training...but not any specificgun law training.A police officer gets training ingeneral criminal law, evidence and procedures.Recently I asked a youngLEO about gun law trainingat the Academy and he said that theydo not go overgun laws. Hence it appears that nothing has changed in that area of no training in 28 years. So what you often run into areincidents where you faced with arepolice officers whomay or may not know what they are talking about.

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    , Illinois, USA
    Posts
    778

    Post imported post

    hlh wrote:
    This creates a dangerous situation for the armed citizen when the LEO's are ignorant of the law.
    Most places cops get very little specific education in laws. Most of them know little about any of the laws. They "know" what things are illegal in a general sense, and after an arrest try to fit the action they believed was criminal to a specific statute.

    That may sound kind of odd, but it is the way things have to work. it is not like a cop can cite chapter and verse before he makes an arrest when he sees (or thinks he sees) a crime being committed.


  24. #24
    Regular Member DoubleTap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    45

    Post imported post

    hlh wrote:
    I've had a traffic stop experience where I explained the law to the LEO and he told me that he would let the judge figure it out. That ended up being ok but it sure cost me allot in time and attorney fees.
    Glad it turned out ok (with the exception of the cost of time and attorney fees of course).

    I was stopped for a traffic violation several years ago in Henrico. After voluntarily advising the officer that I had a permit to carry concealed, he commented that it was not legal to carry in my pocketbook. Fortunately, nothing more occurred. After reading your post, didn't feel so bad about just getting a speeding ticket!
    Fear has two meanings: Forget everything and run OR face everything and rise!

  25. #25
    Regular Member DoubleTap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Henrico, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    45

    Post imported post

    hlh wrote:
    I've had a traffic stop experience where I explained the law to the LEO and he told me that he would let the judge figure it out. That ended up being ok but it sure cost me allot in time and attorney fees.
    Glad it turned out ok (with the exception of the cost of time and attorney fees of course).

    I was stopped for a traffic violation several years ago in Henrico. After voluntarily advising the officer that I had a permit to carry concealed, he commented that it was not legal to carry in my pocketbook. Fortunately, nothing more occurred. After reading your post, didn't feel so bad about just getting a speeding ticket!
    Fear has two meanings: Forget everything and run OR face everything and rise!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •