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Thread: Why do you need a gun at Walmart?

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    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Some of the open carry naysayers will probably say that if this guy had been OC'ing the goblin would just have shot him first. Nice situational awareness and good use of cover.

    http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...0,356380.story

    themorningcall.com
    Teen robber shot outside Wal-Mart is charged
    4:45 PM EDT, August 28, 2008

    A shopper licensed to carry a firearm shot and wounded a 17-year-old boy who allegedly tried to rob him at gunpoint in the parking lot of the Wal-Mart store in East Stroudsburg early this morning.

    Stroud Area Regional Police Department said the shopper, Joshua Eastman, 28, of East Stroudsburg, and the 17-year-old boy, Reneau Jean Jacques of 77 Symphony Circle, East Stroudsburg, exchanged gunfire about 12:45 a.m.

    Jacques was charged as an adult with criminal attempt to commit homicide, robbery, aggravated assault, crimes committed with firearms, recklessly endangering another person and persons not to possess a firearm. He was arraigned this afternoon before District Judge Michael Muth and is in Monroe County Prison on $100,000 bail.

    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs. Police said he has a prior juvenile criminal record that includes narcotics and indecent assault charges.

    Eastman was not struck by a bullet in the exchange, during which at least six shots were fired, police said. But he was cut when a bullet shattered the glass on the passenger's side window of his vehicle.

    According to police, the confrontation happened after Eastman finished shopping.

    While Eastman was in the parking lot unloading groceries from a cart into the passenger side of his vehicle, Jacques approached, carrying a handgun and wearing a bandana over his face, according to a police news release.

    Police said Jacques told them he was "looking for someone to rob."

    Eastman said he initially told Jacques he had no money because he had used debit card and that's when Jacques pointed the handgun in a more threatening manner and used a more demanding tone, the news release said.

    Eastman told police he then took out his wallet and pushed the passenger door open further to create a barrier between them, and Jacques then pointed the gun at his head. Eastman said he then purposely dropped his wallet and ducked down to pick it up to try to attract attention from other shoppers. That's when Jacques fired the first shot at him through the passenger door window.

    "He said he was hoping if there was some delay tactics that someone would notice what was going on and might alert authorities," Capt. William Parrish said. "He was actually injured with the glass from the driver's side door, but he was not struck with the bullet. After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door."

    Parrish said Jacques fired several shots into the car door in an attempt to hit Eastman. After the exchange of gunfire, Eastman ran toward the store and Jacques was found by police hiding in a landscaped area of the parking lot.

    Both weapons have been recovered, but Parrish said the evidence is still being processed to determine how many shots were fired from each weapon.

    -- Reporting by Joe McDonald and Tracy Jordan, The Morning Call


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    3points to make here:

    A shopper licensed to carry a firearm shot and wounded a 17-year-old boy who allegedly tried to rob him at gunpoint in the parking lot of the Wal-Mart store in East Stroudsburg early this morning.


    notice that they made no effort to identify the boy as the "assailent", or any other such term as they would use in a case that would reflect negatively on our RTKBA
    Both weapons have been recovered, but Parrish said the evidence is still being processed to determine how many shots were fired from each weapon.

    again, notice the language used as to make it appear that Mr. Eastman was less than honorable in this incident.




    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs


    it would seem to me that Mr. Eastman would benefit from a decent defensive firearms class.



    Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive to the presentation of this story, but I find it ironic that even in such a seemingly clear cut case of self defense, that the media makes Mr. Eastman's actions seem somehow questionable.

    One more thing.

    If Walmart had been a gun free zone, this wouldn't have happened, since we all know that Gun free zones make everyone safer [/sarcasm]

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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs


    it would seem to me that Mr. Eastman would benefit from a decent defensive firearms class.
    After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door.
    Sounds like he was shooting from the ground under the door, so he fired at a known target instead of trying to guess where center of mass was. He definitely gave the bad guy a whole lot more leeway than I would have. Then again, he handled the situation well enough to get out of it alive, so he was successful.

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    After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door.
    That might explain why he hit him in the leg instead of the chest.

    * EDIT * I'm too slow

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Glad that the shopper had the means to defend himself and that he prevailed. Hope that he does well after the fact.

    His situational awareness, however, was less than 100% to allow the BG to get that close - and with a bandana over his face and brandishing! Can you say "white zone?"

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Another version of the same story:

    http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc.../NEWS/80828002


    "It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.


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    DreQo wrote:
    Sounds like he was shooting from the ground under the door, so he fired at a known target instead of trying to guess where center of mass was.
    I apparently glanced over that part.

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    ne1 wrote:
    Another version of the same story:

    http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc.../NEWS/80828002


    "It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.

    Give that Sgt. a cookie! Or maybe a donut? :celebrate

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    Yay score 1 for the good guys!

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    ne1 wrote:
    "It appears to be an armed robbery that went badly for the suspect because he picked an armed customer," said Sgt. James Wielgus.

    So, Am I to understand that a legally armed citizen thwarted a crime and avoided becoming a victim; and an authority figure acknowledged it publicly? Must be a fluke... Alignment of stars or something. I just hope I can remain as clear headed in such a situation.

    Nice work Joshua Eastman. Thank you for defending the shoppers and associates at Wal-mart. Glad you're OK too.


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    Six shots... Hmm could it e a revolver?

    What cal were the bullets in bad guys leg?
    Might need to consider bigger/better bullets if it left anything bigger than a stump.

    I do hope the gun has already been returned by now.
    After all wallmart still hasn't appologized for endangering his safety by not
    reporting the illeagal carriers the way they do the leagal OC'rs.



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    DreQo wrote:
    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs


    it would seem to me that Mr. Eastman would benefit from a decent defensive firearms class.
    After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door.
    Sounds like he was shooting from the ground under the door, so he fired at a known target instead of trying to guess where center of mass was. He definitely gave the bad guy a whole lot more leeway than I would have. Then again, he handled the situation well enough to get out of it alive, so he was successful.
    Sounds to me like the 4th shot missed, it should have been lodged somewhere between the optic nerve and brainstem once he hit the ground

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    RIAShooter wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs


    it would seem to me that Mr. Eastman would benefit from a decent defensive firearms class.
    After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door.
    Sounds like he was shooting from the ground under the door, so he fired at a known target instead of trying to guess where center of mass was. He definitely gave the bad guy a whole lot more leeway than I would have. Then again, he handled the situation well enough to get out of it alive, so he was successful.
    Sounds to me like the 4th shot missed, it should have been lodged somewhere between the optic nerve and brainstem once he hit the ground
    Yeah, 'cause comments like those are helpful. He neutralized the threat and suffered little injury to himself and none to others. He did exactly what he should have done. It would have been murder to take the time for a properly placed head-shot AFTER the thread ceased.

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    DreQo wrote:
    Yeah, 'cause comments like those are helpful. He neutralized the threat and suffered little injury to himself and none to others. He did exactly what he should have done. It would have been murder to take the time for a properly placed head-shot AFTER the threat ceased.
    +1 Temperance gentlemen, temperance.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    DreQo wrote:
    RIAShooter wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    Jacques was treated for three bullet wounds to his lower legs


    it would seem to me that Mr. Eastman would benefit from a decent defensive firearms class.
    After he dropped to the ground, he shot the 17-year-old in the legs under the car door.
    Sounds like he was shooting from the ground under the door, so he fired at a known target instead of trying to guess where center of mass was. He definitely gave the bad guy a whole lot more leeway than I would have. Then again, he handled the situation well enough to get out of it alive, so he was successful.
    Sounds to me like the 4th shot missed, it should have been lodged somewhere between the optic nerve and brainstem once he hit the ground
    Yeah, 'cause comments like those are helpful. He neutralized the threat and suffered little injury to himself and none to others. He did exactly what he should have done. It would have been murder to take the time for a properly placed head-shot AFTER the thread ceased.
    Sorry we disgree here if he's laying on the ground with a gun, he still has a gun. How many rounds to you fire in self defense? Enough to stop the threat. Unless he threw the gun once he hit the ground, or I saw it hit the ground before he did, I would spend the extra .5 seconds it took me to line up on his head, my personal opinion we don't have to agree

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I do not disagree with continuing to actively defend until the threat has been stopped - to do less is to invite potential disaster.

    I am only cautioning on extreme or graphic after action suggestive responses. Obviously what this man did worked - it was enough. I would take pause before saying anything in a manner that might make me appear as judge, jury or simply overly aggressive.

    I never wish to take another's life but if forced to, I will strive to stop the threat to the degree that circumstances require. I train to do neither more, nor less.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Agreed I would not go all dirty harry on the guy and walk over and talk to him then put one in between his eyes I was saying I'm on the ground shooting him in the only target I can see, (his legs), he hits the ground with a gun he just had pointed at my head, I'm taking the shot I have when he hits the ground

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    That sounds better.

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    RIAShooter wrote:
    Agreed I would not go all dirty harry on the guy and walk over and talk to him then put one in between his eyes I was saying I'm on the ground shooting him in the only target I can see, (his legs), he hits the ground with a gun he just had pointed at my head, I'm taking the shot I have when he hits the ground
    now that is something I believe that most of us here can agree with completely

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    +1

    I do not see from the reports that I have read that the BG ever hit the ground though. Shot in the legs - yes, continued exchanging fire through the car door and then was found hiding.

    Eastman did a good thing - he moved - first dropping down, then running away - both good tatical responses.

    One thing that bothered me in the report was the statement that "both guns had been recovered." This would seem to imply that Eastman (good guy) hid or tried to hide his weapon which I seriously doubt. Semantics perhaps but better choice of wording exists.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I couldn't imagine being shot with anything more than a .22 three times in the legs and not hitting the ground, but then again I've never been shot by anything more than a daisy lol

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    RIAShooter wrote:
    I couldn't imagine being shot with anything more than a .22 three times in the legs and not hitting the ground, but then again I've never been shot by anything more than a daisy lol
    You'd be surprised what you can do when your life is in danger and your adrenaline is pumping. In fact, that's exactly what adrenaline is supposed to do.

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    DreQo wrote:
    RIAShooter wrote:
    I couldn't imagine being shot with anything more than a .22 three times in the legs and not hitting the ground, but then again I've never been shot by anything more than a daisy lol
    You'd be surprised what you can do when your life is in danger and your adrenaline is pumping. In fact, that's exactly what adrenaline is supposed to do.

    Touche +1


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    SlackwareRobert wrote:
    Six shots... Hmm could it e a revolver?

    What cal were the bullets in bad guys leg?
    Might need to consider bigger/better bullets if it left anything bigger than a stump.

    I do hope the gun has already been returned by now.
    After all wallmart still hasn't appologized for endangering his safety by not
    reporting the illeagal carriers the way they do the leagal OC'rs.

    The guns used were a .25 and a .32. The video link I followed didn't say who used which one.

    http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc...DIA01/80829021

    ETA: Link
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Personal note to GG in this event: carry something beginning with a 4 !

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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