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Thread: New to pistols, but needing a good Conceal Carry & Open Carry gun

  1. #1
    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Thanks to the halfhearted & pathetic attempts of Congress to secure our borders, and the subsequent invasion of drug runners, human trafficing scum, and other assorted violent criminals, I was prompted to become a gun owner for the first time in my life. It's nice to know congress is working to protect America.

    I am a relatively new gun owner, and I'm looking for something to OC, with the option to CC. That could be an unrealistic expectation, perhaps. I own a S&W Airweight revolver, and a Ruger LCP, but I'd like to be able to OC a .40 or .45 caliber as a main gun.

    I've been eyeing both the XDm .40 and the Kimber Ultra Carry w/night sights for some time now. After being able to hold a Kimber Ultra Carry in my hand, along with a Galco molded secured leather holster, I think this is what I want.

    http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/ultracarry/

    I have also been considering the XDm .40 for home defense and OC, but that wouldn't be very concealable. I like the high magazine capacity of 16+1 of .40.

    I think I should go for the Kimber Ultra Carry (1911 design). I've heard nothing but good things about the 1911. I was shown today that it is, by design, supposed to be cocked and locked when carrying. I assume since the design is alleged to be combat proven, this is safe to carry this way?

    Opinions valued!


  2. #2
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Statesman wrote:
    I think I should go for the Kimber Ultra Carry (1911 design). I've heard nothing but good things about the 1911. I was shown today that it is, by design, supposed to be cocked and locked when carrying. I assume since the design is alleged to be combat proven, this is safe to carry this way?

    Opinions valued!
    There is nothing alleged about the combat proof of 1911's. From 1911 to the mid 80's they were used by the military of the US. They work real well. And yes, they are safe to carry that way. The series 80 colt type safeties on some newer 1911'smake them even more so.

    Although, I like 1911's,my current carry gun is a Sig. You get all the .45 auto goodness of a 1911, with no safety to fiddle with. Only a heavy double action trigger pull for the first shot, and a nice single action pull for follow up shots.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    Regular Member Statesman's Avatar
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    Thanks for your input. You have the P220 ?

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    First, though...I really, really wanted to like the Kimber Tactical Ultra II. But, part of my criteria for liking a weapon is reliable function.

    I have owned the Kimber Tactical Ultra II (technically two, but the last one was for only about 4 hours). Virginia Arms in Manassas, VA took it back...along with used springs, mags, holster, and so on.

    Both were unreliable guns. The first I had for approximately one year and documented around 1300 rounds (that's a lot of time and money). Kimber replaced it after four trips to the factory. The replacement gun had the EXACT same quality control and feeding problems. It worked OK for awhile, but I just couldn't get it to work well. I returned it to the store after getting jams on FMJ ammo in the first 50 rounds.


    What really made me upset was that the Kimber Custom Shop made promises to me throughout the process and DID NOT follow through on them. This is my main gripe with Kimber...one would think the replacement gun would have been debugged.


    I documented the problems on the 1911 Forum:
    http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...roubleshooting


    http://forums.1911forum.com/showthre...roubleshooting


    A search for Kimber and Ultra will show many problem threads.

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    Regular Member MamaLiberty's Avatar
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    Statesman, I do hope you invest in some good handgun and self defense training along with your new tools.

    Owning a gun makes you ready to defend yourself like owning a car makes you a NASCAR driver.

    The Springfield XD compact .45 is my OC gun, and a Ruger SP 101 .357 revolver is my alternate. For CC, I have a Taurus ultra-lite titanium .38 revolver, but both revolvers are harder to control and less accurate than the .45.

    The best idea is to handle and shoot as many different guns as you can before you decide. What works for me might not fit your hand. Everyone has an opinion, but until you find what works for you - what feels right to you - it's just all hearsay.

    And you can't find out what works for YOU without lots of time, handling and plain old shooting of many different guns.

    Good luck - and have fun!
    I will not knowingly initiate force. I am a self owner.

    Let the record show that I did not consent to be governed. I did not consent to any constitution. I did not consent to any president. I did not consent to any law except the natural law of "mala en se." I did not consent to the police. Nor any tax. Nor any prohibition of anything. Nor any regulation or licensing of any kind.

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    As for OC: carry what you have.

    I'd carry the J-Frame in the appendix position. It's a very quick draw and the gun in front can be protected by your arm. You will see anyone reaching for it (you should still use a retention holster).

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    Another vote for the XD. If you find the compact is a little small for you the service model (4") is easily concealed. Of course, I also like my SA 1911 GI, so my advice is to get both. Then the bug will really get you, and you soon have to chose between a half dozen or so before you leave the house.

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    With your weapons of choice I think you are on the right track. I OC a XDm and I alsohave that for my home defence, or my 1911 .45 with laser. The Hi cap mags are awesome against 2-3 people. Whenever I feel the need to CC I carry my 1911 fullsize in an OWB but it fits close to my body so it does not show. the 1911 is a good gun for CC, you really do not need the compact in my opinion unless you are going to carry it on your ankle or pocket. The slim1911 allows me to CC a fullsize and I wearnormal shirts to CC my 1911.

    Try looking at a full size 1911 and the XDm you will like them.

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    With your weapons of choice I think you are on the right track. I OC a XDm and I alsohave that for my home defence, or my 1911 .45 with laser. The Hi cap mags are awesome against 2-3 people. Whenever I feel the need to CC I carry my 1911 fullsize in an OWB but it fits close to my body so it does not show. the 1911 is a good gun for CC, you really do not need the compact in my opinion unless you are going to carry it on your ankle or pocket. The slim1911 allows me to CC a fullsize and I wearnormal shirts to CC my 1911.

    Try looking at a full size 1911 and the XDm you will like them.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Statesman wrote:
    snip
    I think I should go for the Kimber Ultra Carry (1911 design). I've heard nothing but good things about the 1911. I was shown today that it is, by design, supposed to be cocked and locked when carrying. I assume since the design is alleged to be combat proven, this is safe to carry this way?

    Opinions valued!
    One of my best friends carries that Kimber with TFOs. Loves it. It is a very nice pistol. When he first got it he had some feed issues and sent it back to Kimber where IIRC, they did a fluff and buff. Now it eats anything and he shoots IDPA with it regularly. I would not hesitate to carry one, FWIW. And yes, it is specifically designed to be carried cocked and locked.

    I have not yet shot the XD(M), but do carry an XD45 compact service (4" barrel) the majority of the time. I also would not hesitate to carry any of the XD line.

    The Kimber IMO will be easier to CC simply because it has a thinner profile than the XDs. I prefer the XD for outdoors activities such as camping, floating or for SHTF simply because it does not require the level of care of the Kimber. The tighter tolerances and machining of the Kimber that make it an excellent tack driver also potentially leave it susceptible to fouling in extreme conditions. The XD can safely be cleaned in Simple Green and lubed with motor oil and has withstood torture tests similar to the Glocks. The Kimber is a little more finicky about it's level of maintenance.

    In short and IMO, both are excellent firearms. I would be happy to own or carry either. Both have their pros and cons like anything. It really comes down to what you want and need in a pistol and to individual fit and feel. If you can afford to obtain both, I think you would have two excellent alternatives for whatever conditions in which you might find yourself.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  11. #11
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    If you're new to handguns my advise to you would be to shoot as many of these models as you can get your hands on. What looks good on the shelf and has great reviews, maynot be to your personal liking. They all shoot and handle a little differently. Pay attention to the trigger action. For me personally, that is one the biggest factors that I take into account.

    Also buy something that you can afford to shoot - A LOT!You will want to achieve a high level of proficiency with that sidearm, and that's going to take time and a lot of ammo. .45 ammo is more effective than 9mm, but also more expensive.

    After you make your selection, we can have another long discussion about the drawer full of holsters you are about to collect...

  12. #12
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    I would recommend a Glock 23. .40 and 10 +1

    Also 99.9999999% reliable.

    It all depends on what gun fits your hand better.

  13. #13
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    Michigander wrote:
    Statesman wrote:
    I think I should go for the Kimber Ultra Carry (1911 design). I've heard nothing but good things about the 1911. I was shown today that it is, by design, supposed to be cocked and locked when carrying. I assume since the design is alleged to be combat proven, this is safe to carry this way?

    Opinions valued!
    The thing to remember about tight-tolerance guns (especially the 1911 clones like the aforesaid Kimber) is that they are less tolerant to dust/dirt/particulates/other crud that can get in there while just being outside.

    The 1911 is designed to, and will work well with the loose tolerances of its design.

    From The Holy Gospel of John....

    3. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
    6. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
    12. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.
    http://www.frfrogspad.com/jmb.htm

    Also, cocked and locked, or Israeli carry, those are pretty much your two choices, unless you like trying to slowly drop the hammer on a live round. You should choose cocked & locked.

    SAO, how it should be.

    Let's see.... I carry one, I know Danbus does.... I can't think of anyone else, but I'm sure someone will pipe up.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

  14. #14
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    To me it seems like you have your bases covered for CCW.

    Abig gun just doesn't conceal as well as a little gun. Especially since you already have some good small CC guns I just say go for whatever handgun you like best for OC regardless of size, and If you want to CC it, CC it if you can and if you can't CC one of your smaller guns. Your ability to conceal larger guns will depend quite a bit on your garments.

    Those are just my opinions.



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