I went to the movies today. PROVO

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thoughtpolice wrote:

ainokea wrote:

Citizenon patrol!:uhoh:

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CITIZEN OWNED!!!



That better there 45? Does it have your approval?

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A pig with lipstick is still a pig.. oh wait... where have I heard that before??? rofl


Kevin

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I thoughtthat was John McCain talking about Hilliary's health care plan... or maybe when Al Gore said it.. hmmm What's that about you being a citizen who kisses pigs with lipstick.. speak american.... you make no sense. I'm just having some fun with you 33 old buddy old pal.

Kevin

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If you want to be noticed, then leave the laser site on while in the dark theater.

Glow n' the dark grips maybe?

As for the lipstick, since he has so much problem with the Nap** headed santa comment, (also a southern expression) then he shouldn't complain about
getting it also.

The saying is only relavent it the underlying premise works. Since Obamma
is the one who wants to continue the Bush big government expansion, massive new spending, total ignoring of the laws, the whole sentance doesn't wash.

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ainokea wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Every time someone accuses us of wanting attention, it needs to be slapped down hard.

Ofcourse I want attention. I want people to notice. I want people to ask me about it.It gives me the opportunity to promote self-defense and firearms.

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So are you for the attention or should we slap down the people who say you want attention? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO - The main reason tocarry is for personal protection not to go looking for a confrontation in other words "attention".

To me thosewho carry looking for attention are no different then wannabe cops! Citizenon patrol!:uhoh:

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Being noticed is one of the missions of this forum. That's why media is invited and we pay for billboards and sign petitions. We want guns to be normal.

Some people carry only for self defense, there is nothing wrong with that.
Others carry primarily for self defense, and secondly to educate and inform people, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some carry primarily to educate and secondly for self defense, nothing wrong with that either.
Some carry only to inform, nothing wrong with that.

We are all on the same team here.

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thoughtpolice wrote:

LovesHisXD45 wrote:

I thoughtthat was John McCain talking about Hilliary's health care plan... or maybe when Al Gore said it.. hmmm What's that about you being a citizen who kisses pigs with lipstick.. speak american.... you make no sense. I'm just having some fun with you 33 old buddy old pal.

Kevin

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Now Im confused, didnt Obama say that about Palin like 2 days ago? And Ill kiss anything that wants my lovin, I dont discriminate :lol:. And 33, he I am not, but Im not getting into that battle again, sheesh.

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I'm a CNN junkie. If you watch a couple hours of that during their "CNN Newsroom" stuff or Lou Dobbs Tonight, you will hear all about it. They should put "None of The Above" options on the voting ballots in November. That's the box I would check.

Kevin

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jaredbelch wrote:

ainokea wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Every time someone accuses us of wanting attention, it needs to be slapped down hard.

Ofcourse I want attention. I want people to notice. I want people to ask me about it.It gives me the opportunity to promote self-defense and firearms.

Click to expand...

So are you for the attention or should we slap down the people who say you want attention? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO - The main reason tocarry is for personal protection not to go looking for a confrontation in other words "attention".

To me thosewho carry looking for attention are no different then wannabe cops! Citizenon patrol!:uhoh:

Click to expand...

Being noticed is one of the missions of this forum. That's why media is invited and we pay for billboards and sign petitions. We want guns to be normal.

Some people carry only for self defense, there is nothing wrong with that.
Others carry primarily for self defense, and secondly to educate and inform people, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some carry primarily to educate and secondly for self defense, nothing wrong with that either.
Some carry only to inform, nothing wrong with that.

We are all on the same team here.

Click to expand...

+10 You nailed it right on the head Jared.

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ainokea wrote:

So are you for the attention or should we slap down the people who say you want attention? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO - The main reason to carry is for personal protection not to go looking for a confrontation in other words "attention".

To me those who carry looking for attention are no different then wannabe cops! Citizen on patrol!:uhoh:

Click to expand...

Why can't wanting (positive) attention be a secondary reason? Sure, defense is the primary reason I carry, but does that mean it's wrong for me to have any other reasons?

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FogRider wrote:

ainokea wrote:

So are you for the attention or should we slap down the people who say you want attention? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO - The main reason to carry is for personal protection not to go looking for a confrontation in other words "attention".

To me those who carry looking for attention are no different then wannabe cops! Citizen on patrol!:uhoh:

Click to expand...

Why can't wanting (positive) attention be a secondary reason? Sure, defense is the primary reason I carry, but does that mean it's wrong for me to have any other reasons?

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IMO - a lot of people who are carrying for the sole reason to draw attention to themselves will find it and in most cases it will not be "positive". If you go looking for trouble you will find it.

There is nodoubt that OCing will cause attention to be drawn to you, however, the main reason to carry a gun should not be to say "hey, look at me" it should be for your protection.It is a tool and as such it has a purpose.

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ainokea wrote:

IMO - a lot of people who are carrying for the sole reason to draw attention to themselves will find it and in most cases it will not be "positive". If you go looking for trouble you will find it.

There is nodoubt that OCing will cause attention to be drawn to you, however, the main reason to carry a gun should not be to say "hey, look at me" it should be for your protection.It is a tool and as such it has a purpose.

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That's where I think you are wrong. It may come across as attention being the main reason because that's what is discussed, but I think that's simply because the defense issue assumed and therefore not discussed.

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jaredbelch wrote:

Being noticed is one of the missions of this forum. That's why media is invited and we pay for billboards and sign petitions. We want guns to be normal.

Some people carry only for self defense, there is nothing wrong with that.
Others carry primarily for self defense, and secondly to educate and inform people, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some carry primarily to educate and secondly for self defense, nothing wrong with that either.
Some carry only to inform, nothing wrong with that.

We are all on the same team here.

Click to expand...

I agree that we are on the same team. If someone'sonly reason for carring a gun is to "inform" they should carry awater gun. You don't buy a hammer to look at. It is a tool and if you are not prepared or willing to use it if necessary why have or advocate for it?

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FogRider wrote:

ainokea wrote:

IMO - a lot of people who are carrying for the sole reason to draw attention to themselves will find it and in most cases it will not be "positive". If you go looking for trouble you will find it.

There is nodoubt that OCing will cause attention to be drawn to you, however, the main reason to carry a gun should not be to say "hey, look at me" it should be for your protection.It is a tool and as such it has a purpose.

Click to expand...

That's where I think you are wrong. It may come across as attention being the main reason because that's what is discussed, but I think that's simply because the defense issue assumed and therefore not discussed.

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I believe you miss read my post I am not claiming that Most OCers are doing it for attention alone. It would have read better if I had said "IMO - People who are carrying for the sole reason to draw attention to themselves will find it and in most cases it will not be "positive".

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ainokea wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Every time someone accuses us of wanting attention, it needs to be slapped down hard.

Ofcourse I want attention. I want people to notice. I want people to ask me about it.It gives me the opportunity to promote self-defense and firearms.

Click to expand...

So are you for the attention or should we slap down the people who say you want attention? It doesn't make sense to me. IMO - The main reason tocarry is for personal protection not to go looking for a confrontation in other words "attention".

To me thosewho carry looking for attention are no different then wannabe cops! Citizenon patrol!:uhoh:

Click to expand...

Emphasis on "accuse". We've read too many criticisms where an anti-OCer, be it an anti-gunner, or a CC-only person accused in so many words that the reason for OCing was, "Hey! Look at me! I've got a gun." The implication being some sort of juvenile motive for wanting attention. Also, please understand I'm using the word attention in its usual sense--awareness directed towards something or someone.

OCing for personal protection is entirely valid. You won't hear a criticism from me.

In the early days of the OC movement, almost everbody was OCing also for the reasons in my earlier post: so people can see a citizen with a gun is not dangerous, and to remind people they have the RKBA.OC was and still is an activist activity. As we've grown, we've picked up folks who OC simply because it works better for them than CC, and a few other personal reasons, but still absent activism. I say, GREAT!!

I'm just returning from supper in a small restaurant. The timing couldn't have been better as far as this post. I OC'd at the restaurant. While I was eating, an elderly gentleman asked to speak to me apart fromthe group he was with. He confided hedidn't feel secureanymore at home. He asked me what was involved in getting a pistol.

THAT IS WHY I OC. I want people to notice. I want people to approach me. I want peopleto inquire. I want to be able to direct them toinformation about firearms, self-defense,CHP instructors, etc.

I do agree thatanyone who wouldOC just for the opportunity at confrontation are...(ahem)...missing opportunities to promote 2A. However, I've never met one, and I cannot easily recall such a person on this board. I think the accusations about wanting attention or wanting confrontation arise entirely from the mind of the perceiver. They add in something that isn't there. Or perhaps, take something from a particular post and assign motive more broadly than can reasonably be concluded.

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ainokea wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

Being noticed is one of the missions of this forum. That's why media is invited and we pay for billboards and sign petitions. We want guns to be normal.

Some people carry only for self defense, there is nothing wrong with that.
Others carry primarily for self defense, and secondly to educate and inform people, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some carry primarily to educate and secondly for self defense, nothing wrong with that either.
Some carry only to inform, nothing wrong with that.

We are all on the same team here.

Click to expand...

I agree that we are on the same team. If someone'sonly reason for carring a gun is to "inform" they should carry awater gun. You don't buy a hammer to look at. It is a tool and if you are not prepared or willing to use it if necessary why have or advocate for it?

Click to expand...

By being on the same team, I mean that we should abstain from comments like the one above (bolded).

How do you know they aren't water guns? How do you know they are loaded? How do you know? The point is, that OC still furthers our cause whether the gun is loaded or not, real or not, for self defense or not. And if someone wants to carry solely to educate, more power to him.

True story, the first OC meet I OC'd at, someone showed up with a holstered gun without a mag in. He wasn't comfortable with a loaded or "utah unloaded" gun on his hip, but he wanted to participate in the OC movement. Once again I have to say, there is nothing wrong with that.


To answer the second part of your statement

" It is a tool and if you are not prepared or willing to use it if necessary why have or advocate for it?"

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OC is a deterrent, there are numerous stories on this and other forums where the mere sight of a firearm deterred a crime or possible crime. That is the main reason I OC, I don't want to use my firearm. It looks better in my holster than as evidence in a shooting.

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Citizen wrote:

I do agree thatanyone who wouldOC just for the opportunity at confrontation are...(ahem)...missing opportunities to promote 2A. However, I've never met one, and I cannot easily recall such a person on this board.

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I will agree that they are few and far between, however, they do exist and there are some on here. Most of the members here will never meet face to face and our posts are the only insightwe have of the people here.

Personally, the reason I carry is for self-defense. I have been carrying for over 7 years and I have yet to have an "encounter" good or bad. (And I am not looking for one) The vast majority of people are oblivious to what is around them and the few looks that I have noticed I have just smiled at them.

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jaredbelch wrote:

ainokea wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

Being noticed is one of the missions of this forum. That's why media is invited and we pay for billboards and sign petitions. We want guns to be normal.

Some people carry only for self defense, there is nothing wrong with that.
Others carry primarily for self defense, and secondly to educate and inform people, there is nothing wrong with that.
Some carry primarily to educate and secondly for self defense, nothing wrong with that either.
Some carry only to inform, nothing wrong with that.

We are all on the same team here.

Click to expand...

I agree that we are on the same team. If someone'sonly reason for carring a gun is to "inform" they should carry awater gun. You don't buy a hammer to look at. It is a tool and if you are not prepared or willing to use it if necessary why have or advocate for it?

Click to expand...

By being on the same team, I mean that we should abstain from comments like the one above (bolded).

How do you know they aren't water guns? How do you know they are loaded? How do you know? The point is, that OC still furthers our cause whether the gun is loaded or not, real or not, for self defense or not. And if someone wants to carry solely to educate, more power to him.

True story, the first OC meet I OC'd at, someone showed up with a holstered gun without a mag in. He wasn't comfortable with a loaded or "utah unloaded" gun on his hip, but he wanted to participate in the OC movement. Once again I have to say, there is nothing wrong with that.


To answer the second part of your statement

" It is a tool and if you are not prepared or willing to use it if necessary why have or advocate for it?"

Click to expand...

OC is a deterrent, there are numerous stories on this and other forums where the mere sight of a firearm deterred a crime or possible crime. That is the main reason I OC, I don't want to use my firearm. It looks better in my holster than as evidence in a shooting.

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I will retract my comment about the water guns and appologize for it. I agree that guns are a deterrent of crime. Gun control only helps the criminals.

I can understand how some people may need to take baby steps when starting to OC (and fully support),after all, it comes with a lot of responsibility!And I don't take it lightly,and the few that I have come across that onlyOC only for "attention" came across as very juvinile and looked at it as a Macho thing "hey look at me I have a gun"