DUI Blitz nets 21 arrests - Out of 200 stops

mzbk2l · Sep 3, 2008

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jaredbelch wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4159892

21 arrested in weekend DUI blitz September 2nd, 2008 @ 10:52am (KSL News) A DUI blitz in Park City over the weekend netted 21 arrests.
The Utah Highway Patrol worked with Park City police to step up patrols and pulled over more than 200 vehicles during the three-day operation.

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So if they're pulling people over (instead of using roadblocks), presumably with probable cause (license plate light out, failure to use turn signal, etc.), what is the issue? If you drive legally, in a vehicle that meets legal standards, you should have no problem. The driver has to break the law first to give the cops the excuse to pull him over.

The cops used to try to shut down teens "cruising the pits" in my hometown growing up. We knew we'd get nailed for any little thing they could find, so my Friday night ritual consisted of checking every single bulb on the car before I went anywhere so they would have no excuse to pull me over. (Usually worked, too, unless they caught my Trans Am with smoke rolling off the back tires.)

I don't have a problem with cops properly using the laws on the books to bust someone, or even just to check them out. I have a problem with the few cops who think they should make up their own laws to accomplish the same thing.

DenWin · Sep 3, 2008

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The only times I've seen this sort of thing is when they either look for the little things to pull you over, or they do set up road blocks. The times with road blocks, they always said they were checking to make sure no one was over the legal limit, they were near bars, and I never had to do a breathalyzer. They specifically looked for signs of intoxication, told me to drive safe and have a nice night, and I went on through.

MetalChris · Sep 3, 2008

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Flyer22 wrote:

Alcohol and illegal drugs carry an inherent ability to change a person's behaviour and degrade a person's decision-making process and physical capability. Illegal weapons have no such ability.

Right, so that means if drugs are involved we can trash the Constitution and the entire Bill of Rights.

But don't touch my guns! :uhoh:

ETA: I do not condone drug use or driving under the influence (duh), but am simply making a point. The principle remains the same.

Citizen · Sep 3, 2008

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Just do a little personal research on the decline of the Fourth Amendment.

The slippery slope has almost turned into a luge run.

There is always a nice-sounding, seemingly logical justification for the next infringement. Always.

If you want an eye-opener, read the dissents in the casescited by LEO229 in the thread about refusing to be disarmed. Astounding.

The case cites are about 1/3 of the way down page one: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum54/15435-1.html

hsmith · Sep 3, 2008

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Citizen wrote:

Just do a little personal research on the decline of the Fourth Amendment.

The slippery slope has almost turned into a luge run.

There is always a nice-sounding, seemingly logical justification for the next infringement. Always.

If you want an eye-opener, read the dissents in the casescited by LEO229 in the thread about refusing to be disarmed. Astounding.

And all in the last 30-40 years. All under the guise of "public safety"

From drug laws to MADD pushing their draconian drunk driving laws.

No one likes drunk driver or heroin addicts - but I prefer my freedom a lot more

AZkopper · Sep 3, 2008

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jaredbelch wrote:

I wonder if this is a normal stop to arrest ratio... How can they justify stopping 200 people for possible DUI, and only arrest 21? Seems a bit over the top to me. :quirky

Thats a 1:10 ratio for drunks:stops......if you think about it, thats pretty scary. NHTSA studies estimate that after 10pm, 25% of all drivers on the road are impaired by drugs or alcohol (thats from memory, the % might be a little off).

Its not "over the top", its a scary reality of drunk driving in our country. You also asked how do they justify stopping 200 people? Easy: cars weaving, cars driving 10-20 miles below the speed limit, cars driving without headlights on, cars speeding 10-15 miles over the limit are all indicators of possible DUI's. If a cop sees any of these, he will stop you to see if you are impaired, the fact that you were weaving not because you were drunk, but because you were eating your Del Taco from your lap doesn't mean it wasan 'unjustified' stop.

Drunk drivers generally don't put taxi cab billbords on their roofs to indicate they're driving as such. It is up to the officer to observe tell tale driving signs and then make a stop to determine if it is due to impairment, neglegence, or other innocent reason (tired, eating, etc).

Gunslinger · Sep 4, 2008

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madcapmag wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

madcapmag wrote:

I personally believe they should stop BAD drivers, whether or not they are over the legal limit. After all, doesn't 2 beers put some people over? I know people who can walk tightropes after a sixpack and some who go to sleep after one bottle.

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And just how are they going to do that? Roadblocks every night? Random pull overs to check for "papers"? First steps; what are the next ones going to be?

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Wait... what? There are plenty of bad drivers that can be caught without setting up roadblocks. Papers? HUH? Where'd you get this totally skewed view of what I said? There are people who weave in and out of traffic. They cause a danger, whether or not they are drunk. There are people who cut others off or merge without signaling, causing danger. There are people who go 40 over the speed limit in a contruction zone. There are people who weave all over the road causing significant danger. These are the people I'm talking about. How, pray tell, would roadblocks stop these guys? They may not be drunk, but they are a danger. If they are drunk, nail them. If someone is driving carefully and makes it home without causing a danger to anyone, why care?

You mentioned booze, exclusively. I agree there are plenty of bad drivers who are sober, but the discussion is on DUI or near DUI stops. The whole idea is to concentrate the doughnut eaters in high traffic areas to check for the maximum possible "drunks." A cop on patrol, near a Dunkin Doughnut probably, has a much lower probability of catching a bad driver. And roadblocks are the topic.

Takezo · Sep 4, 2008

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Hey you think 20 out of 200 is bad!!! I'll tell you what the Hawthorne Police Department does every two months or so...

They do complete check-point road-blocks of Crenshaw Boulevard. You have to come to a complete stop, show your PRK driver's liscence, then they let you proceed.

If you do not show a driver's liscense you are directed to a side area, and there you are tickteted and your car is impounded. I was watching this completely unconstitutional circus one day from the Loew's parking lot. At that particular point in there were six tow trucks loading up vehicles and motorcycles, and another 10 vehicles waiting to being impounded.

Three people were under arrest, cuffed and sitting on a bench in front of the command waiting to be taken to jail.

I asked one Sherrif's Deputy I came across in the 7-Eleven just how many cars they would impound on these sweeps. He told me that at least 50 to 60 cars would wind up in the impound during the day long road-blocks.

This is a very busy section of Crenshaw Blvd that they bottle neck up. And they have police cruisers posted before the blocks to intercept vehicles that would make sudden turns to avoid the check point.

I came across their last sweep about two months ago. I was heading west on Crenshaw, saw the blockade ahead and seeing just ahead that the cruiser blocking the liquor store parking lot pulled out suddenly--I pulled in, and parked in front of the liquor store. I did this just for @#$%s and giggles to see what would happen.

Within ten seconds a motorcycle cop pulled in back of my car as I was heading into the store--I ignored him, and see seemed very pissed off. When I came out after purchasing a snapple, he demanded to see my liscence. "Why officer? Am I being detained? --I pulled that game at first.

"Why did you avoid the check-point?" "What check-point?" I reliped calmly. Let me see your lisence," he asked again. "Unless I am under investigation for some sort of violation," I don't have to show it to you--entering a parking lot to perform legitimate trade and business is not a violation of any law."

I just dug in my heels and stood there, "perhaps we should talk to your supervisor, I'll wait as long as you need." I decided to play his game of chicken at this point. Next thing I heard was his starter, and he sped off.

I wish that guy who likes to screw with the imigration check-points would come to Hawthore and play his, "am I being detained?" game with these jack-heads for 10 or 15 minutes while Crenshaw Boulevard backs up for miles.

Next time they pull this game, I'm going to get out my digital camera and line up some video and photos of these thugs.

Oh... and when they confiscate your car, it's impouned for a minimum of 30 days (new laws), with fees--and if you don't claim it at the end (cost is about $1,200.00) they auction it off. This isa cash cow for the city and sherrif's department who run this scam.

It has little to do with enforcing laws--it has everything to do with generating fines.

ST

AZkopper · Sep 5, 2008

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Takezo wrote:

Hey you think 20 out of 200 is bad!!! I'll tell you what the Hawthorne Police Department does every two months or so...

They do complete check-point road-blocks of Crenshaw Boulevard. You have to come to a complete stop, show your PRK driver's liscence, then they let you proceed.

If you do not show a driver's liscense you are directed to a side area, and there you are tickteted and your car is impounded. I was watching this completely unconstitutional circus one day from the Loew's parking lot. At that particular point in there were six tow trucks loading up vehicles and motorcycles, and another 10 vehicles waiting to being impounded.

Three people were under arrest, cuffed and sitting on a bench in front of the command waiting to be taken to jail.

I asked one Sherrif's Deputy I came across in the 7-Eleven just how many cars they would impound on these sweeps. He told me that at least 50 to 60 cars would wind up in the impound during the day long road-blocks.

This is a very busy section of Crenshaw Blvd that they bottle neck up. And they have police cruisers posted before the blocks to intercept vehicles that would make sudden turns to avoid the check point.

I came across their last sweep about two months ago. I was heading west on Crenshaw, saw the blockade ahead and seeing just ahead that the cruiser blocking the liquor store parking lot pulled out suddenly--I pulled in, and parked in front of the liquor store. I did this just for @#$%s and giggles to see what would happen.

Within ten seconds a motorcycle cop pulled in back of my car as I was heading into the store--I ignored him, and see seemed very pissed off. When I came out after purchasing a snapple, he demanded to see my liscence. "Why officer? Am I being detained? --I pulled that game at first.

"Why did you avoid the check-point?" "What check-point?" I reliped calmly. Let me see your lisence," he asked again. "Unless I am under investigation for some sort of violation," I don't have to show it to you--entering a parking lot to perform legitimate trade and business is not a violation of any law."

I just dug in my heels and stood there, "perhaps we should talk to your supervisor, I'll wait as long as you need." I decided to play his game of chicken at this point. Next thing I heard was his starter, and he sped off.

I wish that guy who likes to screw with the imigration check-points would come to Hawthore and play his, "am I being detained?" game with these jack-heads for 10 or 15 minutes while Crenshaw Boulevard backs up for miles.

Next time they pull this game, I'm going to get out my digital camera and line up some video and photos of these thugs.

Oh... and when they confiscate your car, it's impouned for a minimum of 30 days (new laws), with fees--and if you don't claim it at the end (cost is about $1,200.00) they auction it off. This isa cash cow for the city and sherrif's department who run this scam.

It has little to do with enforcing laws--it has everything to do with generating fines.

ST

I workedfor Gardena for several years in the 90's, so I have some (not lots) insight to what your're talking about.

1st. Congratulations on standing your ground in the parking lot. Regardless of what the SCOTUS has said, I feel checkpoints are unconstitutional. As long as you do not violate a traffic law by turning away from the checkpoint (crossing double yellow, cutting off traffic, ignoring traffic cone pattern) you are good.

2nd. Unless laws have changed in Kali since I left, you have no obligation to show your ID unless detained for a crirminal investigation (including traffic) or articulable suspicion of criminal activity.

3rd. 30 day impounds are ONLY for unlicensed drivers and suspended/revoked drivers. Those who are stopped and admit that they are unlicensed or suspended are the ones being pulled to the side and losing their cars.

Do some research (because things could have changed) on Kali laws.Unless astatute has been added stating that you must show ID at checkpoints,next time, drive through the checkpoint and ask if you are detained when asked for ID. If you are, ask for what specific crime or suspicion of criminal activity. Push it like the border patrol youtube guy did. My bet is that they will wave you through after a couple of minutes.

They are so used to sheeple just doing what they are told, they forget that they don't have the authority to demand ID "just because". When pushed, they will probably push back, because they are not used to it. When they realize you won't back down, and asking hard questions they don't have the answers to (politely, of course), they will begrudgingly let you go.

If everyone did this, these things would go away.

Takezo · Sep 5, 2008

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3rd. 30 day impounds are ONLY for unlicensed drivers and suspended/revoked drivers. Those who are stopped and admit that they are unlicensed or suspended are the ones being pulled to the side and losing their cars.

Yeah... most of these people are having their vehicles impounded for "no" lisence at all, or suspended lisence--and thus they get hammered with a big impound fee. Now where is the hearing for the impounding of proptery? Where is the due process as required by the 4th amendment?

I can see arresting them right there and then, and parking their vehicles in that lot they use for towing--but not confiscating their property without some sort of hearing involved.

Nope I'm not going to push it with the LEO's anymore--but I am going to post the photos I get on checkpointusa.com. I thing people will get a big surprise out of this.

ST

MeBaby · Sep 5, 2008

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Gunslinger wrote:

stanicus wrote:

MetalChris wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Thundar wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4159892

21 arrested in weekend DUI blitz September 2nd, 2008 @ 10:52am (KSL News) A DUI blitz in Park City over the weekend netted 21 arrests.
The Utah Highway Patrol worked with Park City police to step up patrols and pulled over more than 200 vehicles during the three-day operation.
Of those pulled over, 14 were arrested on suspicion on DUI, six were arrested on misdemeanor drug related charges and one was taken into custody on felony drug charges.

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is a normal stop to arrest ratio... How can they justify stopping 200 people for possible DUI, and only arrest 21? Seems a bit over the top to me. :quirky

Click to expand...

They look for an excuse, 1-2 over the speed limit, tail light out, improper lane change, etc. Then while you are detained for that you are evaluated for sobriety and your car is searched. Evil, just pure evil

Click to expand...

I know they are ticky tack reasons to pull people over, but how is it "evil" to use whatever means nessessaryto attempt to clear the streets of illegal weapons?

Click to expand...

Good argument for gun control you've got there. :quirky

Click to expand...

So, you took my own words and twisted them....added what you wanted....and changed the topic. Do you work for the media? Maybe the John McPain campain? I thought it was funny that this didn't have anything to do with guns, yet was posted on a pro-gun board. WTG.....nice bait and switch.:banghead:

Click to expand...

McPain? Maybe you prefer that pos Obooba? Then you'll find out about bait and switch when it comes to guns.

Looks like the ObamaNation coronation may have run into an imPalin !!

AZkopper · Sep 5, 2008

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Takezo wrote:

Now where is the hearing for the impounding of proptery? Where is the due process as required by the 4th amendment?

Can't remember about Kali, but here in AZ, it is required that the driver and owner(s) of the property be hand delivered (if there) or mailed (if not there) notification of theimpound, and they aretold therein about hearing information.

FightingGlock19 · Sep 5, 2008

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TipsyMcStagger wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Thundar wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4159892

21 arrested in weekend DUI blitz September 2nd, 2008 @ 10:52am (KSL News) A DUI blitz in Park City over the weekend netted 21 arrests.
The Utah Highway Patrol worked with Park City police to step up patrols and pulled over more than 200 vehicles during the three-day operation.
Of those pulled over, 14 were arrested on suspicion on DUI, six were arrested on misdemeanor drug related charges and one was taken into custody on felony drug charges.

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is a normal stop to arrest ratio... How can they justify stopping 200 people for possible DUI, and only arrest 21? Seems a bit over the top to me. :quirky

Click to expand...

They look for an excuse, 1-2 over the speed limit, tail light out, improper lane change, etc. Then while you are detained for that you are evaluated for sobriety and your car is searched. Evil, just pure evil

Click to expand...

I know they are ticky tack reasons to pull people over, but how is it "evil" to use whatever means nessessaryto attempt to clear the road of drunk drivers?

Click to expand...

little thing some people know about called the bill of rights

hhrrrmmm ...I'll use the 4th as my reason for passing up the next weight station/truck inspection station I have to go by ;-)

Alexcabbie · Sep 5, 2008

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HEARKEN UNTO A MAN WHO DRIVES THE STREETS AND HIGHWAYS FOR A LIVING. (Moi):

I must watch out for every type of bad driver there is and at the same time not be one myself. DUI is a subset of a greater driving problem out there called "DHUA", or "Driving with one's Head up one"s A**" Driving is not carrying a fire arm. Carrying a fire arn is a RIGHT enshrined in the Constitution. Driving is a privilege. Drive HUA, get cited. Drive under the influence, get ARRESTED.

Oh, and carry a gun either HUA or intoxicated and expect a nightmare to ensue. And that is as it should be. I have been pulled over for having my parking lights only at night and, having come from dinner, a hint of alcohol on my breath. But the officer was satisfied that I was in fact sober and I was allowed to proceed. Most cops know, hell most adults know when someone is drunk or high and when they aren't. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. "Field sobriety tests" and roadside breath analyzers are mainly to establish probable cause for arrest. I guarantee you that the cop will know after you've said about ten words whether you are fit to drive or not.

And actually 21 arrests for DUI out of 200 HUA stops is not all that low, especially on a weekend night. A bit over 10%, which I am given to understand is the DUI-sobewr ratio on a weekend night.

Task Force 16 · Sep 5, 2008

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Alexcabbie wrote:

HEARKEN UNTO A MAN WHO DRIVES THE STREETS AND HIGHWAYS FOR A LIVING. (Moi):

I must watch out for every type of bad driver there is and at the same time not be one myself. DUI is a subset of a greater driving problem out there called "DHUA", or "Driving with one's Head up one"s A**" Driving is not carrying a fire arm. Carrying a fire arn is a RIGHT enshrined in the Constitution. Driving is a privilege. Drive HUA, get cited. Drive under the influence, get ARRESTED.

Oh, and carry a gun either HUA or intoxicated and expect a nightmare to ensue. And that is as it should be. I have been pulled over for having my parking lights only at night and, having come from dinner, a hint of alcohol on my breath. But the officer was satisfied that I was in fact sober and I was allowed to proceed. Most cops know, hell most adults know when someone is drunk or high and when they aren't. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out. "Field sobriety tests" and roadside breath analyzers are mainly to establish probable cause for arrest. I guarantee you that the cop will know after you've said about ten words whether you are fit to drive or not.

And actually 21 arrests for DUI out of 200 HUA stops is not all that low, especially on a weekend night. A bit over 10%, which I am given to understand is the DUI-sobewr ratio on a weekend night.

It was also a holiday weekend.A THREE DAY weekend. Not just one night.

Tomahawk · Sep 6, 2008

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ahh, nevermind...

nitrovic · Sep 6, 2008

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TipsyMcStagger wrote:

stanicus wrote:

Thundar wrote:

jaredbelch wrote:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=4159892

21 arrested in weekend DUI blitz September 2nd, 2008 @ 10:52am (KSL News) A DUI blitz in Park City over the weekend netted 21 arrests.
The Utah Highway Patrol worked with Park City police to step up patrols and pulled over more than 200 vehicles during the three-day operation.
Of those pulled over, 14 were arrested on suspicion on DUI, six were arrested on misdemeanor drug related charges and one was taken into custody on felony drug charges.

Click to expand...

I wonder if this is a normal stop to arrest ratio... How can they justify stopping 200 people for possible DUI, and only arrest 21? Seems a bit over the top to me. :quirky

Click to expand...

They look for an excuse, 1-2 over the speed limit, tail light out, improper lane change, etc. Then while you are detained for that you are evaluated for sobriety and your car is searched. Evil, just pure evil

Click to expand...

I know they are ticky tack reasons to pull people over, but how is it "evil" to use whatever means nessessaryto attempt to clear the road of drunk drivers?

Click to expand...

little thing some people know about called the bill of rights

Where in the Bill of Rights does it say you can't get pulled over for going a couple miles over the speed limit?

nitrovic · Sep 6, 2008

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hsmith wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Just do a little personal research on the decline of the Fourth Amendment.

The slippery slope has almost turned into a luge run.

There is always a nice-sounding, seemingly logical justification for the next infringement. Always.

If you want an eye-opener, read the dissents in the casescited by LEO229 in the thread about refusing to be disarmed. Astounding.

Click to expand...

And all in the last 30-40 years. All under the guise of "public safety"

From drug laws to MADD pushing their draconian drunk driving laws.

No one likes drunk driver or heroin addicts - but I prefer my freedom a lot more

What part of the DUI laws do you not agree with? Have you ever had a friend or family member killed by a drunk driver?

Doug Huffman · Sep 7, 2008

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hsmith wrote:

Citizen wrote:

Just do a little personal research on the decline of the Fourth Amendment.

The slippery slope has almost turned into a luge run.

There is always a nice-sounding, seemingly logical justification for the next infringement. Always.

If you want an eye-opener, read the dissents in the casescited by LEO229 in the thread about refusing to be disarmed. Astounding.

Click to expand...

And all in the last 30-40 years. All under the guise of "public safety"

From drug laws to MADD pushing their draconian drunk driving laws.

No one likes drunk driver or heroin addicts - but I prefer my freedom a lot more

Safety is a tyrant's tool because no one can be against safety. 'Public safety' is a public tyrant's tool. The cops have no commission to protect an individual but they abuse their discretion selecting objectives of their enforcement. They are the teeth of the toothless leviathan.

mzbk2l · Sep 7, 2008

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Doug Huffman wrote:

Safety is a tyrant's tool because no one can be against safety. 'Public safety' is a public tyrant's tool. The cops have no commission to protect an individual but they abuse their discretion selecting objectives of their enforcement. They are the teeth of the toothless leviathan.

Sure you can be against safety; at least if it comes at the expense of freedom. I don't appreciate seatbelt laws, helmet laws, etc. I don't approve of checkpoints to check every driver for evidence of alcohol.

I do not, however, have a problem with the police using tools already at their disposal to interact with as many drivers as possible. If you drive with an inoperative light bulb, obscured license plate, or in violation of traffic laws, it's your fault that the police had a chance to interact with you. Not a lot of difference from inviting them into your home; you provided the opening that they took advantage of.

The OP that started this thread stated that the police were pulling people over during the DUI blitz; not running them through checkpoints. Works for me...

DUI Blitz nets 21 arrests - Out of 200 stops

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