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Thread: Chl or CCDW

  1. #1
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    In kentucky we have a ccdw (concealed carry or deadly weapons) and I was wondering what the regulations would be in Texas for carrying say a knife or baton in my pocket or would I be able to OC it, or would I just not be able to carry it period.

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    RIAShooter wrote:
    In kentucky we have a ccdw (concealed carry or deadly weapons) and I was wondering what the regulations would be in Texas for carrying say a knife or baton in my pocket or would I be able to OC it, or would I just not be able to carry it period.
    In Texas it's a CHL or Cocealed Handgun License. It is still prohibited to carry other "deadly" weapons. Not sure what the knife stipulations are, but I think a baton, club,slapjack, or brassknuckles and suchis out of the question. IANAL
    The thing about common sense is....it ain't too common.
    Will Rogers

  3. #3
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    rodbender wrote:
    RIAShooter wrote:
    In kentucky we have a ccdw (concealed carry or deadly weapons) and I was wondering what the regulations would be in Texas for carrying say a knife or baton in my pocket or would I be able to OC it, or would I just not be able to carry it period.
    In Texas it's a CHL or Cocealed Handgun License. It is still prohibited to carry other "deadly" weapons. Not sure what the knife stipulations are, but I think a baton, club,slapjack, or brassknuckles and suchis out of the question. IANAL
    You can read the definitions here http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes...0.htm#46.05.00

    Some have read 46.15(b)(6) very literally such that IF you are carrying a concealed handgun, have a license, and the handgun is of the category you are licensed for THEN you can carry a club or illegal knife also because "Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who: ... [meets the above criteria]" and 46.02 is where the prohibition on carrying a handgun, illegal knife, and club resides. While this may be technically accurate, you are taking a huge risk. If you are convicted of Unlawful Carry of a Weapon, you will lose -- or can no longer qualify for,if unlicensed -- your CHL for 5 years. :what:

    You can carry a concealed -- and it MUST be concealed -- handgun in your vehicle without a CHL thanks to our new "car carry" law. It seems a bit silly, but carry the gun of your choice (even a small one if size/comfort is an issue) but don't take any chances with a knife or club.

    SA-TX

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    rodbender wrote:
    RIAShooter wrote:
    In kentucky we have a ccdw (concealed carry or deadly weapons) and I was wondering what the regulations would be in Texas for carrying say a knife or baton in my pocket or would I be able to OC it, or would I just not be able to carry it period.
    In Texas it's a CHL or Cocealed Handgun License. It is still prohibited to carry other "deadly" weapons. Not sure what the knife stipulations are, but I think a baton, club,slapjack, or brassknuckles and suchis out of the question. IANAL
    Knives are straight forward. Under 5.5" and you're OK.[1] So carry that Leatherman or pen knife without fear. Keep the Bowie knife at home.[2][3]

    Disclaimer: IANAL. Read Chapter 46 of the Texas Penal code closely. Talk to your lawyer.

    --Aaron

    [1] See section 46.01 point 6a (definition of a knife). http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes...0.htm#46.01.00
    [2] Sadly those are explicitly exclude. See section 46.01 point 6d. http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes...0.htm#46.01.00
    [3] Handguns are typically excluded for historical reenactments. I couldn't make heads or tails of the code to be sure bowie knives, spears and swords are. I think they are.

  5. #5
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    That is the most ass backwards thing I've ever heard. It makes it a lot easier to justify use of force, when I can prove I was trying to use non-leathal force to stop the threat, (i.e. the reason I carry a retractable baton), and then if the attacker continued the attack, I would have to turn to Mr. bang bang. I would much rather have to club a guy then to have to even brandish my weapon, because the state has limited my options.

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    oops

  7. #7
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    RIAShooter wrote:
    That is the most ass backwards thing I've ever heard. It makes it a lot easier to justify use of force, when I can prove I was trying to use non-leathal force to stop the threat, (i.e. the reason I carry a retractable baton), and then if the attacker continued the attack, I would have to turn to Mr. bang bang. I would much rather have to club a guy then to have to even brandish my weapon, because the state has limited my options.
    You did notice your coming to Texas, didn't you?


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    Yes I lived in texas for 16 yrs before I moved to Kentucky, and am probably moving back, i just think it makes it a lot harder to prove justification of force, when your left to either shoot or brandish because you can't carry a simple retractable baton

  9. #9
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    RIAShooter wrote:
    Yes I lived in texas for 16 yrs before I moved to Kentucky, and am probably moving back, i just think it makes it a lot harder to prove justification of force, when your left to either shoot or brandish because you can't carry a simple retractable baton
    It's less of an issue now with the Castle Doctrine encoded in law, at least as far as culpability and civil lawsuits are concerned. You ought to read chapter 9 of the Texas Penal code. You can legally use force and even deadly force in situations that range from fear of personal harm to protecting strangers and even to get your property back from a thief immediately after it was taken (I'm still not sure I'm reading that last part correctly but the wording seems pretty clear).[1]

    I agree, it's a bummer you have to go straight to handgun with no intermediary weapons permitted (at least personal carry). I'm pretty sure you can still use a baseball bat on your own property.

    --Aaron

    [1] http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes...00.htm#9.41.00
    Code:
    § 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY.
     (a) A person  in lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is  justified in using force against another when and to the degree the  actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to  prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful  interference with the property.
     (b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,  movable property by another is justified in using force against the  other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force  is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the  property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit  after the dispossession and:
      (1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no  claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
     (2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using  force, threat, or fraud against the actor.
    
    § 9.42.  DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY.
     A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
     (1)  if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41;  and
     (2)  when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
     (A)  to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;  or
     (B)  to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the 
    property;  and
     (3)  he reasonably believes that:
     (A)  the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or
     (B)  the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the info guys, hope to meet some of you guys soon

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    Unless you are trained in the use of the expandable baton (i.e. know the appropriate strike zones) it can very much be a dangerous weapon that could quite easily cause serious bodily harm/death. Believe me if I am being assailed by someone with an expanded baton...they will most assuredly meet my controlled pair.

    Now, I fully support the idea of carrying a less lethal form of protection, that is why I carry a baton and OC at work (and that is on an Air Force Base) and can justify the baton in my car (it is with work gear).

    To call a metal striking device non-lethal is inaccurate. By design it is intended to be a less lethal option but like most hard metal objects it has reserved the right to become lethal if applied properly (more so improperly).



    Bryan

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    RIAShooter wrote:
    That is the most ass backwards thing I've ever heard.* It makes it a lot easier to justify use of force, when I can prove I was trying to use non-leathal force to stop the threat, (i.e. the reason I carry a retractable baton), and then if the attacker continued the attack, I would have to turn to Mr. bang bang. I would much rather have to club a guy then to have to even brandish my weapon, because the state has limited my options.
    Yup. In Florida my CCW allowed to to carry my baton, but here in Texas it stays at home. AFAIK you can carry a stun gun, though.

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    "That is the most ass backwards thing I've ever heard. It makes it a lot easier to justify use of force, when I can prove I was trying to use non-leathal force to stop the threat, (i.e. the reason I carry a retractable baton), and then if the attacker continued the attack, I would have to turn to Mr. bang bang. I would much rather have to club a guy then to have to even brandish my weapon, because the state has limited my option."

    RIASHOOTER...in the above statement there is one thing that I disagree with. The idea that the retractable baton is, as you have stated, "non-lethal". Trust me when I say this, it is extremely lethal. I worked a case in Mississippi several years back where a dude beat his girlfriend to death with one. HE ONLY HIT HERE WITH IT TWICE. It was an ugly scene. It honestly looked like he used a PR-24 on her head. Not pretty...

    David

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    AFCOP.....just curious here. Are you by any chance Capt Bill Dains?

    David

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    No I am not, I do not even know who that is. Why do you ask?

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    They are not that good. Unfortunately, most states except for Delaware and Oregon forget that the second amendment isn't about firearms. It's about defensive arms which includes firearms but it also includes switchblades, billys, etc.

  17. #17
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    I have a buddy of mine that is email begins with AFCop and he lives in San Antonio. Sorry about the mix up.

    David

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