• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Boondocks: "No weapons (guests are subject to search)"

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

thoughtpolice wrote:
jaredbelch wrote:
.
Why would you(anyone) recommend breaking the rules of an establishment? If they don't want you there, why give them your money?
Im not recommending anything for anyone. Im giving my personal feelings. Im saying if they have an issue with OC, then CC.If they dont want CC, dont go there. Its REALLY not that big of a deal. But its a moot point now, right?
A company that has an anti gun policy is still anti gun - just because one of the managers chooses not to enforce or push the issue doesn't make the establishment any less anti gun.
 

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

thoughtpolice wrote:
jaredbelch wrote:
A company that has an anti gun policy is still anti gun - just because one of the managers chooses not to enforce or push the issue doesn't make the establishment any less anti gun.
Did you read his letter? Where does it say hes anti gun? If he is indeed an NRA member and a CCW holder and is really against guns he has got to have a severe moral tug-o-war going on inside of him. His letter says we are welcome. Hes not "one of the managers" hes the GENERAL manager, which has a little more say, no?Why are you beating a dead horse? If you want to disagree with methats fine, but back it up with fact, not delusion please.
Oh sorry general manager. He still chooses not to enforce a policy that says no guns.
Maybe he wrote the policy, maybe the owner did, maybe another manager did.
The point is, he refuses or doesn't have the power to remove the sign.
Your right, nuff said I'll take my business elsewhere.
 

Utah_Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
718
Location
Kearns, Utah, USA
imported post

I agree any bussiness has the right to do and post what they want I agree I am stating I will not go to a bussiness that prohibits firearms It is my choice to go other places it is also my right to send a email to the owner and let him know how I feel that is how changes are made.

If the thought police can not understand this Idea and what the fourm is about maybe it is time to find another site for posting that may better accomadate your views. Until then I welcome your thought provoking thoughts about why you don't like open carry.
 

LovesHisXD45

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2008
Messages
580
Location
, Utah, USA
imported post

I can see both sides of the discussion here. The manager did take the time to respond to the question posed by theOP and stated that because "of the nature of the business" he, the manager,wants us to conceal. Also, the manager is technically giving you a back stage pass to violate company policy and get away with it.

Depending on one's views, this can be interpreted in two different ways. For open carry advocates who have the insight to see through the kindness of the manager, one can deduct that, although they are going to allow legal concealed carry with license, that it still does not negate the fact that the business is "anti gun" because they do not and/or will not allow legal open carry because they are more concerned about the sheeple and how they might feel, as well as their bottom line,than they are about your rights to keep and bear arms in publically accessible places where gang bangers like to hang out.

The other way this can be viewed is by someone with the mindset that the manager is being more than generous, and that we should be content and greateful that they even allow concealed carry. This viewcan alsoargue that any attempt to push the issue further would actually jeapordize our standing in the public eye and in the eyes of this business manager.

Both sides are right. However, to add my own take and personal opinion on this particular situation, I would have to err on the point of view that says that this business has been more than generous in how it has postured itself on this issue. I think we are darn lucky that this manager is a CCW permit holder and an NRA member to boot. He could have been a hard leftist liberal obama-loving tree hugger, and that would have been some baaaad juju for us.

I'm all for the OC movement. I want this to happen, but it's going to take some baby steps. Every time we can gain an inch, over time, we will gain a mile. I hate carrying my gun concealed! It is down right uncomfortable and humiliating! I ordered my Serpa the other day too, so I'm good to boot when the time is right. Methinks the sheeple need some time to adjust to this, that's all. Let's just keep dealing with these types of situations on a professional level, and things will take care of themselves.

Kevin
 

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

LovesHisXD45 wrote:
I can see both sides of the discussion here. The manager did take the time to respond to the question posed by theOP and stated that because "of the nature of the business" he, the manager,wants us to conceal. Also, the manager is technically giving you a back stage pass to violate company policy and get away with it.

Depending on one's views, this can be interpreted in two different ways. For open carry advocates who have the insight to see through the kindness of the manager, one can deduct that, although they are going to allow legal concealed carry with license, that it still does not negate the fact that the business is "anti gun" because they do not and/or will not allow legal open carry because they are more concerned about the sheeple and how they might feel, as well as their bottom line,than they are about your rights to keep and bear arms in publically accessible places where gang bangers like to hang out.

The other way this can be viewed is by someone with the mindset that the manager is being more than generous, and that we should be content and greateful that they even allow concealed carry. This viewcan alsoargue that any attempt to push the issue further would actually jeapordize our standing in the public eye and in the eyes of this business manager.

Both sides are right. However, to add my own take and personal opinion on this particular situation, I would have to err on the point of view that says that this business has been more than generous in how it has postured itself on this issue. I think we are darn lucky that this manager is a CCW permit holder and an NRA member to boot. He could have been a hard leftist liberal obama-loving tree hugger, and that would have been some baaaad juju for us.

I'm all for the OC movement. I want this to happen, but it's going to take some baby steps. Every time we can gain an inch, over time, we will gain a mile. I hate carrying my gun concealed! It is down right uncomfortable and humiliating! I ordered my Serpa the other day too, so I'm good to boot when the time is right. Methinks the sheeple need some time to adjust to this, that's all. Let's just keep dealing with these types of situations on a professional level, and things will take care of themselves.

Kevin
I couldn't have said it better myself.
 

Utah_Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
718
Location
Kearns, Utah, USA
imported post

I agree with the posting but here is some more insite the manager who I am corasponding with wants to know more about open carry and is in direct contact with the owners. I feel this is a very positive step in the right direction. He has been asking questions that would leave me to belive he is considering working with us about the sign that is posted so give it a chance to see if this works to our advantage. Also even though he says it is okay to do so the sign is still posted and could still be used against us if someone saw our concealed firearm their
 

Kevin Jensen

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
2,313
Location
Santaquin, Utah, USA
imported post

thoughtpolice wrote:
Did you read his letter? Where does it say hes anti gun? If he is indeed an NRA member and a CCW holder and is really against guns he has got to have a severe moral tug-o-war going on inside of him.
Many gun owners are anti-gun.
 

ainokea

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
173
Location
Heber, Utah, USA
imported post

LovesHisXD45 wrote:
I can see both sides of the discussion here. The manager did take the time to respond to the question posed by theOP and stated that because "of the nature of the business" he, the manager,wants us to conceal. Also, the manager is technically giving you a back stage pass to violate company policy and get away with it.

Depending on one's views, this can be interpreted in two different ways. For open carry advocates who have the insight to see through the kindness of the manager, one can deduct that, although they are going to allow legal concealed carry with license, that it still does not negate the fact that the business is "anti gun" because they do not and/or will not allow legal open carry because they are more concerned about the sheeple and how they might feel, as well as their bottom line,than they are about your rights to keep and bear arms in publically accessible places where gang bangers like to hang out.

The other way this can be viewed is by someone with the mindset that the manager is being more than generous, and that we should be content and greateful that they even allow concealed carry. This viewcan alsoargue that any attempt to push the issue further would actually jeapordize our standing in the public eye and in the eyes of this business manager.

Both sides are right. However, to add my own take and personal opinion on this particular situation, I would have to err on the point of view that says that this business has been more than generous in how it has postured itself on this issue. I think we are darn lucky that this manager is a CCW permit holder and an NRA member to boot. He could have been a hard leftist liberal obama-loving tree hugger, and that would have been some baaaad juju for us.

I'm all for the OC movement. I want this to happen, but it's going to take some baby steps. Every time we can gain an inch, over time, we will gain a mile. I hate carrying my gun concealed! It is down right uncomfortable and humiliating! I ordered my Serpa the other day too, so I'm good to boot when the time is right. Methinks the sheeple need some time to adjust to this, that's all. Let's just keep dealing with these types of situations on a professional level, and things will take care of themselves.

Kevin
I Agree 100%. If people continue to "push" the issue and try to force it down his throat it is not going to help us at all if anything it will have a negative impact. I think this is a very fair policy from the GM he is pro gun and is requesting to just CC to prevent confrontations or encounters at their business.
 

ainokea

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
173
Location
Heber, Utah, USA
imported post

gunsfreak4791 wrote:
Also even though he says it is okay to do so the sign is still posted and could still be used against us if someone saw our concealed firearm their
From a legal stand point, and again IANAL, the signs have ne legal weight in Utah. The only thing that could happen is if someone asked you to leave and you refused only then would you be breaking the law. To sum up, the presence of a sign changes nothing from a legal stand point.
 

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

ainokea wrote:
I Agree 100%. If people continue to "push" the issue and try to force it down his throat it is not going to help us at all if anything it will have a negative impact. I think this is a very fair policy from the GM he is pro gun and is requesting to just CC to prevent confrontations or encounters at their business.
Just to clarify, I agree with what LovesHisXD45 wrote, but I don't agree that it's a fair policy. The official policy is this, they just choose not to enforce it. As the Sarge said, many gun owners are anti gun.

Having an irrational fear of seeing an inatimate object is what we are trying to overcome.

It does sound like Mike at Boondocks is taking this seriously (from what gunsfreak posted), so I'll go back to my wait and see tactic and will freely give my opinion if asked. (or not asked :p)

Dress Code
  1. Guests must wear Shirts and Shoes.
  2. Guests may not display obscene, profane, illegal or unacceptable words, pictures, symbols, phrases, etc.
  3. All clothing must be appropriate, but Management reserves the right to determine appropriate attire.
  4. Guests may not display gang colors, gang tattoos, markings, emblems or wear attire that conveys a gang look, or denotes membership in a gang. This includes:
    1. Altered baseball caps or clothing
    2. Certain oversized pants and shirts
    3. Certain colored clothing and bandanas
  5. Guests may not wear any item that may be used as a weapon.
Code of Conduct
  • No loitering
  • No profanity
  • No vandalism
  • No unruly or illegal conduct
  • No alcohol or illegal drugs
  • No weapons (guests are subject to search)
  • No guest may be intoxicated or under the influence of illegal drugs.
For your safety, park rules apply to all guests and are enforced equally regardless of race, creed, color, sex or religion.
If you are suspected of violating park rules, you may be contacted by a crew member. An audio and or video recording of this contact may occur.
Failure to comply with park rules or follow crewmember’s instructions will result in eviction from the park.
I'm not willing to risk eviction (loss of ticket paid) for violating the official written policy as it currently stands.
I sincerely hope that the owners and management can insert something as simple as "Illegal" in from of both places that it states weapons and end this nonsense.
 

ainokea

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
173
Location
Heber, Utah, USA
imported post

jaredbelch wrote:
I'm not willing to risk eviction (loss of ticket paid) for violating the official written policy as it currently stands.
I sincerely hope that the owners and management can insert something as simple as "Illegal" in from of both places that it states weapons and end this nonsense.
If you are that fearful of being evicted from the park and would still like to go. I would just print out the email from the GM and take it with you because you now have a written policy discounting the sign. IANAL in Utah the signs have no legal weight anyway.
 

jaredbelch

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2007
Messages
545
Location
Cottonwood Heights, Utah, USA
imported post

ainokea wrote:
jaredbelch wrote:
I'm not willing to risk eviction (loss of ticket paid) for violating the official written policy as it currently stands.
I sincerely hope that the owners and management can insert something as simple as "Illegal" in from of both places that it states weapons and end this nonsense.
If you are that fearful of being evicted from the park and would still like to go. I would just print out the email from the GM and take it with you because you now have a written policy discounting the sign. IANAL in Utah the signs have no legal weight anyway.
I'll save myself the trouble and spend my money elsewhere until this matter is resolved. I'm sure it won't be long before we hear back from Mike after he talks to the owners.
 

youscareme

Banned
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
Messages
91
Location
, ,
imported post

If I were working there, and some person pulled out a paper that said it trumped the posted sign, I would not accept it.

It seems pretty simple to me. Obey the rules or dont go. Or snivel to the owner.
 
Top