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Good LEO involved carrying experiences vs. bad
- Thread starter nitrovic
- Start date
Bundabar
Regular Member
imported post
I haven't really had a positive LEO encounter unless you count the fact that the LEO doesn't notice or doesn't say anything about me carrying. I have however, had the below experience...
***************
My wife and I headed out to do some grocery shopping, with me OC'ing my Glock .40. We stopped at the Wal-Mart at SouthPoint, with no problems, and had dinner at the Golden Corral off of 126 also with no problems. (The food's not great but the wife is pregnant!) Our next stop was the Bloom at Lee's Hill (Just off of 126). We usually go there for produce as wal-mart doesn't always have the freshest veggies. My wife and I were inside for maybe 10 minutes getting a few last things on the list when it happened...
As we were checking out a young man (I'm young myself) maybe a manager, introduced himself and told me that someone had called 911 about a man with a gun and he wanted to make sure I was licensed to carry. He said that he had no problem with me carrying himself but he was asked to check. I told him that Virginia does not require licensing and he said Ok and went back to the phone.
We then took our groceries and proceeded to the exit. When we walked out of the store there were two Spotyslvania County Sheriff's Deputies and what appeared to be a Detective (Plain clothes with a badge on his hip). The youngest officersaid something and motioned for me to come speak to them. I walked over to speak with them and the older officer asked me if I was in law enforcement. I told him "no" and then the younger officer told me that he knew I wasn't breaking the law but they had received a call about a man with a gun and were investigating. He asked me why I was carrying and I told him "for personal protection". He asked me why I don't get a concealed carry permit and I told him that I have a CC permit but that's not always comfortable and you can't CC everywhere that you can OC. He nodded his head and asked me if he could see my ID. I know I'm not legally required to, but I was very nervous so obliged. The youngest officer nodded his head and stepped back to "Call me in" (I heard the radio traffic come back with my CC on file)
At this point the detective was in the background watching the whole thing and the older officer walked up and told me that Spotsylvania County has a register of businesses that do not allow handguns on their premise and they that I shouldn't carry here since they had called 911. I informed the officer that I don't know anything about such a register but that if Bloom does not want me to carry in their store they can ask me to leave and I will oblige, otherwise I am not breaking the law and within my right to open carry. He then sent the younger officer inside to see how Bloom's manager felt. The older officer then told me that in Spotyslvania county if the business is on the register I cannot carry there. I told the officerthat Iunderstand the private property laws and if they don't want me to carry there they can post a sign and I won't carry, or they can ask me to leave and I will. He responded that they are not required to post a sign. I said that I understand that they are not required but Ialso know that if you OC in a business even if it is posted the only thing they can do is press trespassing charges if you refuse to leave.
At this point he asked me if I was a lawyer and I told him I was not but was familiar with the laws for this very reason. He seemed to be getting a little upset and then said, in a snide way, that we could sort the whole thing out in front of a judge. At this point I was a little mad and nervous and told him that I would be more than happy for him to detain me or even arrest me for not breaking the law.
The younger cop made a perfectly timed appearance and informed me and the older officer that the manager of the Bloom had no problems with me carrying my gun there (WOOHOO!). The older officer then looked at me and told me to have a nice day. My wife and I walked through the parking lot (with all of the eyes of the gathered crowd on us) got in the car and drove home.
*************
The rest of the story is that I contacted the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Department about the "register" and was told that it did not exist. Every officer that I had contact with during this experience was a complete professional, with the exception of Officer Jones.
I haven't really had a positive LEO encounter unless you count the fact that the LEO doesn't notice or doesn't say anything about me carrying. I have however, had the below experience...
***************
My wife and I headed out to do some grocery shopping, with me OC'ing my Glock .40. We stopped at the Wal-Mart at SouthPoint, with no problems, and had dinner at the Golden Corral off of 126 also with no problems. (The food's not great but the wife is pregnant!) Our next stop was the Bloom at Lee's Hill (Just off of 126). We usually go there for produce as wal-mart doesn't always have the freshest veggies. My wife and I were inside for maybe 10 minutes getting a few last things on the list when it happened...
As we were checking out a young man (I'm young myself) maybe a manager, introduced himself and told me that someone had called 911 about a man with a gun and he wanted to make sure I was licensed to carry. He said that he had no problem with me carrying himself but he was asked to check. I told him that Virginia does not require licensing and he said Ok and went back to the phone.
We then took our groceries and proceeded to the exit. When we walked out of the store there were two Spotyslvania County Sheriff's Deputies and what appeared to be a Detective (Plain clothes with a badge on his hip). The youngest officersaid something and motioned for me to come speak to them. I walked over to speak with them and the older officer asked me if I was in law enforcement. I told him "no" and then the younger officer told me that he knew I wasn't breaking the law but they had received a call about a man with a gun and were investigating. He asked me why I was carrying and I told him "for personal protection". He asked me why I don't get a concealed carry permit and I told him that I have a CC permit but that's not always comfortable and you can't CC everywhere that you can OC. He nodded his head and asked me if he could see my ID. I know I'm not legally required to, but I was very nervous so obliged. The youngest officer nodded his head and stepped back to "Call me in" (I heard the radio traffic come back with my CC on file)
At this point the detective was in the background watching the whole thing and the older officer walked up and told me that Spotsylvania County has a register of businesses that do not allow handguns on their premise and they that I shouldn't carry here since they had called 911. I informed the officer that I don't know anything about such a register but that if Bloom does not want me to carry in their store they can ask me to leave and I will oblige, otherwise I am not breaking the law and within my right to open carry. He then sent the younger officer inside to see how Bloom's manager felt. The older officer then told me that in Spotyslvania county if the business is on the register I cannot carry there. I told the officerthat Iunderstand the private property laws and if they don't want me to carry there they can post a sign and I won't carry, or they can ask me to leave and I will. He responded that they are not required to post a sign. I said that I understand that they are not required but Ialso know that if you OC in a business even if it is posted the only thing they can do is press trespassing charges if you refuse to leave.
At this point he asked me if I was a lawyer and I told him I was not but was familiar with the laws for this very reason. He seemed to be getting a little upset and then said, in a snide way, that we could sort the whole thing out in front of a judge. At this point I was a little mad and nervous and told him that I would be more than happy for him to detain me or even arrest me for not breaking the law.
The younger cop made a perfectly timed appearance and informed me and the older officer that the manager of the Bloom had no problems with me carrying my gun there (WOOHOO!). The older officer then looked at me and told me to have a nice day. My wife and I walked through the parking lot (with all of the eyes of the gathered crowd on us) got in the car and drove home.
*************
The rest of the story is that I contacted the Spotsylvania County Sheriff's Department about the "register" and was told that it did not exist. Every officer that I had contact with during this experience was a complete professional, with the exception of Officer Jones.
ProShooter
Regular Member
imported post
peter nap wrote:
+1
Couldnt have said that any better myself Peter.
peter nap wrote:
+1
Couldnt have said that any better myself Peter.
Xeni
Regular Member
imported post
I've only had one non-positive (confrontational) experience with a LEO. Outside of that they've all been benign.
I did have a positive experience with a local PWC LEO. I was at the Jerry's sub on 234 OCing and this young kid noticed my sidearm. He told his dad, "Dad, that looks like yours". Unfortunatly, my hearingis bad but he came over and said "Hey. You don't look familiar, who do you work for?" I just smiled. I think he wanted to know what department I worked with or agency. But, he seemed very at ease and almost jovial. And, if you've ever seen me I don't look anything close to being the physical presence of a LEO.
I've only had one non-positive (confrontational) experience with a LEO. Outside of that they've all been benign.
I did have a positive experience with a local PWC LEO. I was at the Jerry's sub on 234 OCing and this young kid noticed my sidearm. He told his dad, "Dad, that looks like yours". Unfortunatly, my hearingis bad but he came over and said "Hey. You don't look familiar, who do you work for?" I just smiled. I think he wanted to know what department I worked with or agency. But, he seemed very at ease and almost jovial. And, if you've ever seen me I don't look anything close to being the physical presence of a LEO.
hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
I'll redact my comments per Citzens request. But I know where this thread is going.
To the point of the OP: Positive encounters are rarely talked about because you don't get harassed by the police or even talk to them. A deputy walking by you and paying you no attention is not an encounter - so it can neither be positive or negative.
Ed had a positive encounter the other week and wrote the Sherrif to say so - so when encounters happen they are remarked upon.
I'll redact my comments per Citzens request. But I know where this thread is going.
To the point of the OP: Positive encounters are rarely talked about because you don't get harassed by the police or even talk to them. A deputy walking by you and paying you no attention is not an encounter - so it can neither be positive or negative.
Ed had a positive encounter the other week and wrote the Sherrif to say so - so when encounters happen they are remarked upon.
Citizen
Founder's Club Member
imported post
hsmith wrote:
hsmith wrote:
Please, please, please don't start anything.
longwatch
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
imported post
I suspect he believes that you intend to use this thread to show that OCers are anti-LEO, that we can not admit there are positive LEO encounters.
Anyhow as for my experiences.
Negative-Tonys-well documented already.
Neutral/good- Burke Lake, Starbucks meetup also documented.
Good/nonincident- multiple encounters with LEOs that were non incidents, most recently passing 3 motor officers on a break in a 7-11, that elicited no reaction from them, as it should unless I'm doing something illegal.
I suspect he believes that you intend to use this thread to show that OCers are anti-LEO, that we can not admit there are positive LEO encounters.
Anyhow as for my experiences.
Negative-Tonys-well documented already.
Neutral/good- Burke Lake, Starbucks meetup also documented.
Good/nonincident- multiple encounters with LEOs that were non incidents, most recently passing 3 motor officers on a break in a 7-11, that elicited no reaction from them, as it should unless I'm doing something illegal.
richarcm
Regular Member
imported post
I haven't had any negative or overtly positive experiences with Alexandria or fairfax police. I'd like it to stay like that.
I haven't had any negative or overtly positive experiences with Alexandria or fairfax police. I'd like it to stay like that.
SicSemperTyrannis
Regular Member
imported post
I've had many benign experiences - such as when an officer clearly notices the handgun at my side and says nothing and we both go about our business. Because I live near a state police substation (not sure if this is the right term) I run into a state trooper (or two or three) almost weekly at the local Chik Fil A. Not one has ever said a word. I'd consider this positive.
Same thing with walking into the General Assembly or Capitol - everyone seems to know the rules and acts accordingly. Very professional - and something that wouldn't be the case in most other states.
My one bad experience was on my 31th birthday in Henrico a couple years back in Short Pump at a CVS late at night.The officer was later displined for his misbehavior after I filed an internal affairs complaint. The letter from Colonel Stanley noted that that "several of theofficers actions"were "inappropriate" and "not up to theexpectations of the division" and that the matter was being handled administratively. I also filed 4 FOIA requests, a complaint with the FBI, and an independentcomplaint with the local Commonwealths Attorney who confirmed that some of the officers actions wereproblematic (surprisingly, the officer and his seargent, who I spoke with the same night, misunderstood exactly what a Terry stop is and when it can be conducted. It was not warranted in my case, although the officer and several other officers insisted that their years of experience led them to know that it was justified in my specific set of circumstances.It took the Commonwealths Attorney and Internal Affairs to clarify this issue for the Henrico PD). Colonel Stanley was great, although one of his chief deputiesdid not tell the truthto Philip Van Cleavewhen a couple days later heclaimed that a 911 call was made and the officer was just responding to it. It turned out this wasn't true - the officer was in the CVS for personal business when he noticed me standing in line with items in my hand for purchase. He then called in a "man with a gun" call and then detained me, took me outside, made me spread eagle, etc. 5 squad cars then showed up(!). A more experienced officer had to explain to my officer that open carry is legal. One of the things that Internal Affairs called "inappropriate behavior" was that when my officer returned my gun he warned me against open carry and I then calmly said "I will continue open carrying everywhere, when I want to" and the officer said "That's fine" but that he'd "Stop me everytime"he saw me (or anyone) open carrying. I took this as a specific, unlawful blanket threat to detain me without cause, and the department and Commonwealths Attorney agreed. The officer admitted he said this when interviewed by IA. It seems he didn't initially understand why this statement was a problem (nor did his seargent who I spoke with the same evening).I guess you could call this a very good experience in the end, as the officer was disciplined and Colonel Stanley apologized to me.
I've had many benign experiences - such as when an officer clearly notices the handgun at my side and says nothing and we both go about our business. Because I live near a state police substation (not sure if this is the right term) I run into a state trooper (or two or three) almost weekly at the local Chik Fil A. Not one has ever said a word. I'd consider this positive.
Same thing with walking into the General Assembly or Capitol - everyone seems to know the rules and acts accordingly. Very professional - and something that wouldn't be the case in most other states.
My one bad experience was on my 31th birthday in Henrico a couple years back in Short Pump at a CVS late at night.The officer was later displined for his misbehavior after I filed an internal affairs complaint. The letter from Colonel Stanley noted that that "several of theofficers actions"were "inappropriate" and "not up to theexpectations of the division" and that the matter was being handled administratively. I also filed 4 FOIA requests, a complaint with the FBI, and an independentcomplaint with the local Commonwealths Attorney who confirmed that some of the officers actions wereproblematic (surprisingly, the officer and his seargent, who I spoke with the same night, misunderstood exactly what a Terry stop is and when it can be conducted. It was not warranted in my case, although the officer and several other officers insisted that their years of experience led them to know that it was justified in my specific set of circumstances.It took the Commonwealths Attorney and Internal Affairs to clarify this issue for the Henrico PD). Colonel Stanley was great, although one of his chief deputiesdid not tell the truthto Philip Van Cleavewhen a couple days later heclaimed that a 911 call was made and the officer was just responding to it. It turned out this wasn't true - the officer was in the CVS for personal business when he noticed me standing in line with items in my hand for purchase. He then called in a "man with a gun" call and then detained me, took me outside, made me spread eagle, etc. 5 squad cars then showed up(!). A more experienced officer had to explain to my officer that open carry is legal. One of the things that Internal Affairs called "inappropriate behavior" was that when my officer returned my gun he warned me against open carry and I then calmly said "I will continue open carrying everywhere, when I want to" and the officer said "That's fine" but that he'd "Stop me everytime"he saw me (or anyone) open carrying. I took this as a specific, unlawful blanket threat to detain me without cause, and the department and Commonwealths Attorney agreed. The officer admitted he said this when interviewed by IA. It seems he didn't initially understand why this statement was a problem (nor did his seargent who I spoke with the same evening).I guess you could call this a very good experience in the end, as the officer was disciplined and Colonel Stanley apologized to me.
hsmith
Regular Member
imported post
nitrovic wrote:
nitrovic wrote:
Are you going to respond to anything?
72Malibu
Regular Member
imported post
My few interactions were pretty much non-events.
Incident 1:
I got pulled over for speeding, notified the officer by handing him my CHP along with my DL and just said "for your safety and mine". He asked where it was and what it was, which I told him and he told me just to keep my hands away from it.
When he returned to my vehicle with my ticket, he seemed much more at ease than he did when he first approached my vehicle.
When I went to traffic court to waste my time... ahem... try to reduce the charge, I commended the officer in front of the judge for his professionalism in the situation. I still had to pay the full ticket though.
Incident 2:
Passing through a town with an inspection rejection sticker on my windshield on my way to a friend's house to fix what had failed (thinking that I could legally drive with a rejection sticker for limited period of time). Was pulled over by the town cop where I found out that the only driving I was allowed to do was to drive it to/from a place of inspection or repair, not to friends' houses.
While he was telling me this (after he had run my license) a female voice came over his radio with some stuff I couldn't make out, but did hear "be advised, driver has concealed carry"... then I had realized I didn't inform him... though I wasn't required by law, I just like to as a courtesy. The officer heard it, acknowledged and continued talking with me with no question of it.
I told the officer that I was going to fix theproblem with my truck at a friend's house, albeit not aservice station.He saw the unopened 6-pack onthe floor and asked if that was what the beer was for, which I confirmed.
He told me that I could get stopped later by other officers, and he said just to tell them what I told him, show him the receipt for my new parts and that you had been stopped earlier and questioned about it. Told me to have a good day and that was it.
I've OC'd a couple of times where LEOs have seen me, and nothing was ever said.
My few interactions were pretty much non-events.
Incident 1:
I got pulled over for speeding, notified the officer by handing him my CHP along with my DL and just said "for your safety and mine". He asked where it was and what it was, which I told him and he told me just to keep my hands away from it.
When he returned to my vehicle with my ticket, he seemed much more at ease than he did when he first approached my vehicle.
When I went to traffic court to waste my time... ahem... try to reduce the charge, I commended the officer in front of the judge for his professionalism in the situation. I still had to pay the full ticket though.
Incident 2:
Passing through a town with an inspection rejection sticker on my windshield on my way to a friend's house to fix what had failed (thinking that I could legally drive with a rejection sticker for limited period of time). Was pulled over by the town cop where I found out that the only driving I was allowed to do was to drive it to/from a place of inspection or repair, not to friends' houses.
While he was telling me this (after he had run my license) a female voice came over his radio with some stuff I couldn't make out, but did hear "be advised, driver has concealed carry"... then I had realized I didn't inform him... though I wasn't required by law, I just like to as a courtesy. The officer heard it, acknowledged and continued talking with me with no question of it.
I told the officer that I was going to fix theproblem with my truck at a friend's house, albeit not aservice station.He saw the unopened 6-pack onthe floor and asked if that was what the beer was for, which I confirmed.
He told me that I could get stopped later by other officers, and he said just to tell them what I told him, show him the receipt for my new parts and that you had been stopped earlier and questioned about it. Told me to have a good day and that was it.
I've OC'd a couple of times where LEOs have seen me, and nothing was ever said.
imported post
hsmith wrote:
hsmith wrote:
Respond to what? People are posting their experiences, that's what I was interested in seeing. Like I said before, there have been too many "my friend's friend said....", I wanted to hear from personal accounts.
DocDaddy
Regular Member
imported post
nitrovic wrote:
Vic,
I think people are looking for you to take this somewhere interesting... like when you first started... it was rather... how shall we say... interesting and entertaining. So I think people are still expecting the 'Old Nitrovic', but it seems since you came back things are a little calmer and nowthere is not so much trash talking one another (from both sides) and degrading one another until the cows came home. JMHO
nitrovic wrote:
Vic,
I think people are looking for you to take this somewhere interesting... like when you first started... it was rather... how shall we say... interesting and entertaining. So I think people are still expecting the 'Old Nitrovic', but it seems since you came back things are a little calmer and nowthere is not so much trash talking one another (from both sides) and degrading one another until the cows came home. JMHO
DocDaddy
Regular Member
imported post
peter nap wrote:
What did you do with our old Vic??? :lol:
And when the Fu%k did we get ice cream??? :celebrate
peter nap wrote:
+1 :lol:
What did you do with our old Vic??? :lol:
And when the Fu%k did we get ice cream??? :celebrate
Neplusultra
Regular Member
imported post
Xeni wrote:
Xeni wrote:
Sure you do, it's called undercover narcotics division :^).And, if you've ever seen me I don't look anything close to being the physical presence of a LEO.
SaltH2OHokie
Regular Member
imported post
I've had numerous non-encounters...that'd be positive, no?
7-11 in Blacksburg, run into cops plenty, open carrying plenty, nothing.
As for negative...haven't had any, nor would I hold any negative experience against "law enforcement" as a body of people just because of one mix-up with one person.
I've had numerous non-encounters...that'd be positive, no?
7-11 in Blacksburg, run into cops plenty, open carrying plenty, nothing.
As for negative...haven't had any, nor would I hold any negative experience against "law enforcement" as a body of people just because of one mix-up with one person.