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Thread: Looking to buy 12 ga pump shorty shotgun

  1. #1
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    I never wanted a shotgun until i shot m1gunrs so now i want 1 and its a hell of alot cheaper than 45 ammo. I have seen them new at a few stores for around 300 bucks for the security ones.

    So if anyone has 1 and they want to sell it hit me up and let me know.


    Appriciate it.

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    Thats EXACTLY what i am looking for, were did u get it for 250?

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    The Remington 870 with 18 inch barrel and extended mag tube can usually be found new for 300-350 as well.

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    I payed $220 for one of these at Big Five Sports...on sale.....love it.



    Tarzan



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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    I payed $220 for one of these at Big Five Sports...on sale.....love it.



    Tarzan

    Mossberg 500A with 20" barrel and 8 round mag tube. My wife's favorite home defense weapon. Loaded with 3" #4 buck shot shells.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Mossberg 500A with 20" barrel and 8 round mag tube. My wife's favorite home defense weapon. Loaded with 3" #4 buck shot shells.
    Not trying to change your mind, just curious on the selection of your HD shells.

    Why the 3in vs2 3/4? and why #4 buck vs #1 or 00?

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    David.Car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Mossberg 500A with 20" barrel and 8 round mag tube. My wife's favorite home defense weapon. Loaded with 3" #4 buck shot shells.
    Not trying to change your mind, just curious on the selection of your HD shells.

    Why the 3in vs2 3/4? and why #4 buck vs #1 or 00?
    Experience! That's what we carried in our shotguns in Nam. Now for the reasoning. 12 Ga. 00 buck in 2 3/4 " gives you 9 each .30 cal. pellets and 3" gives you 15. The #4 buck in 2 3/4"gives you 34 each22 cal pellets and 3" gives you 41. The topper is the 22 cal. pellets are less likely to penetrate the walls of your house and take out a by stander. There was a reason the #4s were called "Hamburger Helper".

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Mossberg 500A with 20" barrel and 8 round mag tube. My wife's favorite home defense weapon. Loaded with 3" #4 buck shot shells.
    Not trying to change your mind, just curious on the selection of your HD shells.

    Why the 3in vs2 3/4? and why #4 buck vs #1 or 00?
    Experience! That's what we carried in our shotguns in Nam. Now for the reasoning. 12 Ga. 00 buck in 2 3/4 " gives you 9 each .30 cal. pellets and 3" gives you 15. The #4 buck in 2 3/4"gives you 34 each22 cal pellets and 3" gives you 41. The topper is the 22 cal. pellets are less likely to penetrate the walls of your house and take out a by stander. There was a reason the #4s were called "Hamburger Helper".

    Your choice is your own business.....But you might want to check this out....I am quoting from the summary page and the link is for the first page of the test,

    "Lessons learned:
    1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

    So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

    The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

    The slug penetrated all 12 boards.

    2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.

    You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.

    3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.

    4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
    Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

    Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case.

    Amazing what you can learn by doing a little testing.

    Birdshot as a Defense Load
    I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

    We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

    A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

    In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

    Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

    But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
    Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

    Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

    When To Use Birdshot
    A friend of AR15.com sends this:

    "I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

    It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'""

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm



    Tarzan


  9. #9
    Regular Member John Hardin's Avatar
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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    00 buck ... .30 cal. pellets, ... #4 buck ... .22 cal pellets
    Just to be a nitpick: 00 buck = .33", #1 buck = .30", #4 buck = .24" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckshot

    I chose 2-3/4" #1 buck for home defense to balance pellet size, pellet count, effective range and recoil.

    YMMV, but thanks, Bear, for some real-world experience confirming my choice to not go with 00 buck.

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    David.Car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    Mossberg 500A with 20" barrel and 8 round mag tube. My wife's favorite home defense weapon. Loaded with 3" #4 buck shot shells.
    Not trying to change your mind, just curious on the selection of your HD shells.

    Why the 3in vs2 3/4? and why #4 buck vs #1 or 00?
    Experience! That's what we carried in our shotguns in Nam. Now for the reasoning. 12 Ga. 00 buck in 2 3/4 " gives you 9 each .30 cal. pellets and 3" gives you 15. The #4 buck in 2 3/4"gives you 34 each22 cal pellets and 3" gives you 41. The topper is the 22 cal. pellets are less likely to penetrate the walls of your house and take out a by stander. There was a reason the #4s were called "Hamburger Helper".

    Your choice is your own business.....But you might want to check this out....I am quoting from the summary page and the link is for the first page of the test,

    "Lessons learned:
    1. Notice that the #4 and #1 Buck penetrated 6 boards. In previous tests, 9mm, .45 ACP, and M-193 out of an AR all penetrated all 12 boards.

    So, it seems that these loads do not "over-penetrate" as much as some have led us to believe.

    The 00 Buck penetrated 8 boards, but was stopped by the 9th. Still not as much penetration as the pistol or rifle loads.

    The slug penetrated all 12 boards.

    2. Once again, please notice the size of the entrance spreads....2 1/2" to 3 1/2". Therefore, anyone that says, "With a shotgun, you don't even have to aim. Just point it in the general area of the bad guy, and you can't miss", does not know what they are talking about.

    You can very easily miss with a shotgun. You must aim to hit your target.

    3. The slugs were "bad" penetrators. By that, I mean that they will penetrate several interior walls. If you have loved ones in your home, consider this as you select your home defense weapon.

    4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
    Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

    Frankly, I was surprised that the shotgun did not penetrate more than it did. I had been led to believe that they penetrated more than a .223 rifle or a 9mm or .45 ACP. Such was not the case.

    Amazing what you can learn by doing a little testing.

    Birdshot as a Defense Load
    I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

    We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

    A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

    In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

    Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

    But doesn't 00 Buck penetrate too much in interior walls to be a "safe" load in a home?
    Yes, it does penetrate a lot. But any load that is going to be effective will need to penetrate walls to have enough power to penetrate bad guys. If our only concern was to be sure we didn't penetrate walls, we would use BB guns. However, BB guns will not stop bad guys.

    Therefore, we must use loads that will STOP bad guys, and this means that they will also penetrate walls. So, be sure you hit the bad guy and do not shoot into walls where loved ones are on the other side.

    When To Use Birdshot
    A friend of AR15.com sends this:

    "I saw a gunshot victim, about 5' 10" and 200 lbs, taken to the operating room with a shotgun wound to the chest. He was shot at a range of six feet at a distance of just over the pectoralis muscle. He was sitting on his front porch and walked to the ambulance. We explored the chest after x-rays were taken. The ER doc had said 'buckshot' wound, but this was obviously not accurate.

    It was # 6 shot. There was a crater in the skin over an inch in diameter. When the shot hit the level of the ribs, it spread out about five inches. There was ONE pellet that had passed between the ribs and entered the pericardium, but not damaged the heart at all. As you say, 'use birdshot for little birds.'""

    http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm



    Tarzan
    I would never even consider bird shot or anything smaller than #4. However, I've seen how effective the #4 buck is on a man. FYI if the bad guygets within 6 feet of me, I totally screwed the pooch. Across my front room is just under 19 feet, the bad guys dies at 18 feet.The shot ups your odds over a single handgun bullet. Aim? Well yeah, but I was trained in the"Point and Shoot" methodfor home and self defense shooting.

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    I have an 18.5'' Mossy 500 loaded with 2.75'' 00 buck. I love it and would highly recommend the 500, although the 870 is a fine weapon as well.


    So basically I have nothing new to offer to the 870/500 argument, hahahaha..

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I would never even consider bird shot or anything smaller than #4. However, I've seen how effective the #4 buck is on a man. FYI if the bad guygets within 6 feet of me, I totally screwed the pooch. Across my front room is just under 19 feet, the bad guys dies at 18 feet.The shot ups your odds over a single handgun bullet. Aim? Well yeah, but I was trained in the"Point and Shoot" methodfor home and self defense shooting.
    The post was as much for others interested in the topic as anything else.



    As I said when I posted it.. "Chose what you will"...Only YOU know the circumstances you live under and we all have to be true to our own experience.



    Tarzan

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    So pump or semi auto? I would think semi-auto to deliver quicker multiple shots.

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    tarzan1888 wrote:
    I payed $220 for one of these at Big Five Sports...on sale.....love it.

    Tarzan
    Nice price on the 870, i saw it on sale here for $319 this past weekend. Did you buy it recently for that price?
    Iím proudly straight. I'm free to not support Legalization, GLBT, Illegal Aliens, or the Islamization of America.

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    Triple Tap wrote:
    So pump or semi auto? I would think semi-auto to deliver quicker multiple shots.
    I like the pump unless I am going to be doing skeet... Which I have done with a pump anyways... So more pump.

    Picked up a brand new 870 magnum (wood furniture) for $300 out the door. I took off the factory stock, sold it for $45. Bought a very gently (no marks) used set of Police furniture for $30 (I like the shorter forearm, butt stock and the better recoil pad).

    The action is smooth and have had zero problems so far.

    Edit: Has a 19.5 inch smoothe bore barrel with rifle sights (I dig em) and sits loaded with the 2 and 3/4 federal tactical low recoil 00 with flight control wad.

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    Duplicate

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    David.Car wrote:
    The Remington 870 with 18 inch barrel and extended mag tube can usually be found new for 300-350 as well.
    +1 on the 870 Express HD version. I have it and love it. I got a 28" barrel to go with it for trap.

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    Here are some guns I think you can handle jarhead.They're shiney ,they have cute little lights,One makes authentic sounds when you pull the trigger and the little one can evenlite your smokes.They are just like the big boy guns.............

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    Yeah I know its not a pump...but save your penneys and get one of these 12ga. units.Lots more fun at trap club too..watching the looks. Nothing but up in value, especially if Osama is elected. The pistol grip is perfect for controlling the thing. Since the ban expired its perfectly legal to convert sporters to this configuration as long as you follow 922r rules.

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    jbone wrote:
    tarzan1888 wrote:
    I payed $220 for one of these at Big Five Sports...on sale.....love it.

    Tarzan
    Nice price on the 870, i saw it on sale here for $319 this past weekend. Did you buy it recently for that price?
    First it isn't a Remington870 but a Mossberg 500. Remington will continue to believe their shotguns are worththe extra $100as long as people will pay their price.

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    Triple Tap wrote:
    So pump or semi auto? I would think semi-auto to deliver quicker multiple shots.
    Not necessarily true. I know a guy that unless you watched him run the pump, you would swear it is an auto shotgun. If you hit what you aim at with a shotgun, a single round will handle the situation.

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    tjschul wrote:
    Yeah I know its not a pump...but save your penneys and get one of these 12ga. units.Lots more fun at trap club too..watching the looks. Nothing but up in value, especially if Osama is elected. The pistol grip is perfect for controlling the thing. Since the ban expired its perfectly legal to convert sporters to this configuration as long as you follow 922r rules.
    I've always liked the Saigas, nothing like a reliable AK action to always work for you. FYI, you don't control a shotgun with the trigger hand.

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    jbone wrote:
    tarzan1888 wrote:
    I payed $220 for one of these at Big Five Sports...on sale.....love it.

    Tarzan
    Nice price on the 870, i saw it on sale here for $319 this past weekend. Did you buy it recently for that price?
    The gun I bought was a Mossberg 500....the 50577 Persuader with the 20 inch barrel and an 8 round capacity (7 in the magazine and one in the chamber)

    I was looking for the Maverick, but found this for about the same price.....on sale.





    Tarzan




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    As a side note....It is great for shooting clays. When I go out with my friends they all want to shoot my gun.

    Not only does it hold more shells than most of theirs, but it is great when it comes to point to shoot, in being right on target.

    The first time I shot it (and I had only shot clays once before some 25 years ago) I hit 17 clays in a row before I missed.

    I have shot ducks and geese with it too.

    I have a friend that has this really high dollar Browning Auto. He let me shoot it and I couldn't hit anything with it, I told him it was a beautiful gun and quickly gave it back to him and went back to my Mossy.



    Tarzan

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    tjschul wrote:
    Yeah I know its not a pump...but save your penneys and get one of these 12ga. units.Lots more fun at trap club too..watching the looks. Nothing but up in value, especially if Osama is elected. The pistol grip is perfect for controlling the thing. Since the ban expired its perfectly legal to convert sporters to this configuration as long as you follow 922r rules.
    I've always liked the Saigas, nothing like a reliable AK action to always work for you. FYI, you don't control a shotgun with the trigger hand.
    Poorly worded, grip aids in recoil control....which is also pretty important when you bump fire one of these puppies! Just for fun of course, my version of lighting a string of black cats. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaz9V...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tGN8_eWTYI

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