• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

I know that I'll get flamed, but Open Carry is sometimes WRONG!

Sailorwatson

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
100
Location
Walker, Michigan, USA
imported post

mzbk2l wrote:
Had to stop right there, as the OP apparently has not even researched enough to understand the fundamental differences between rights and privileges.

(BTW, I though we were ruled by laws, not "numbers.")
But enough numbers opposing some law can get the law changed. Example; A repeal of the law to allow alcohol on Sunday in a town near Lake Michigan (sorry I can not remember which one). "Numbers" on petitions will get it on the ballot and "numbers" in the voting booth will either keep the law as is or change the law. The same can be done with OC if enough people get upset and try to change it. I do not have a problem with OC. Some day I hope I have the time and nerve to try it. However I do agree with the OP that discretion needs to be practiced.
 

Sailorwatson

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2006
Messages
100
Location
Walker, Michigan, USA
imported post

DanM wrote:
Troll, go back under the bridge from whence you came.
Troll? No. Just a person who has expressed his opinion. In fact, he could call you a troll because of your onion. No reason to call a person names because they do not agree with you. I exercise my RIGHT to carry as I choose. Am I a Troll because I exercise my RIGHT to choose to CC?
How about less name calling and more toleration for other peoples opinions and ideas.
 

Pa. Patriot

State Researcher
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,441
Location
Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Alwayspacking wrote:
I went to a place full of kids with my family, I felt the need to CC there being around all the kids. I try to be wise with my OC.

Why, specifically, is CC required around kids?
I OC around kids all the time. Never a problem. Am I "unwise"?
Please back up your claims.


Sailorwatson wrote:
..The same can be done with OC if enough people get upset and try to change it. .
But yet it doesn't. Theories are great, but this one is over used and never materializes...


Sailorwatson wrote:
Troll? No. Just a person who has expressed his opinion. In fact, he could call you a troll because of your onion. No reason to call a person names because they do not agree with you. I exercise my RIGHT to carry as I choose. Am I a Troll because I exercise my RIGHT to choose to CC?
How about less name calling and more toleration for other peoples opinions and ideas.

No, no one has ever told you not to CC here. No one has ever said you were stupid for CC'ing

He's a troll because he comes on a OC website and attempts to tell us how to carry, rather than letting us choose.
 

SQLtables

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
894
Location
Secretary MOC, Inc. Frankenmuth, , USA
imported post

Pa. Patriot wrote:
Alwayspacking wrote:
I went to a place full of kids with my family, I felt the need to CC there being around all the kids. I try to be wise with my OC.

Why, specifically, is CC required around kids?
I OC around kids all the time. Never a problem. Am I "unwise"?
Please back up your claims.

He said "I felt the need..." If he feels more comfortable CCing around kids, then he doesn't have to back up anything.

Now, on the other hand, I don't know why you would need to CC around kids. I take my daughter to the park in (with TONS of kids running around) and I OC. Never had a problem, just a couple of looks from a guy dressed in an NYPD hat, shirt, and tattoo :lol:
 

DanM

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 11, 2008
Messages
1,928
Location
West Bloomfield, Michigan, USA
imported post

Sailorwatson wrote:
DanM wrote:
Troll, go back under the bridge from whence you came.
Troll? No. Just a person who has expressed his opinion. In fact, he could call you a troll because of your onion. No reason to call a person names because they do not agree with you. I exercise my RIGHT to carry as I choose. Am I a Troll because I exercise my RIGHT to choose to CC?
How about less name calling and more toleration for other peoples opinions and ideas.
There's a significant difference between civil, even passionate, discourse on one's opinions and the crap the OP posted. The guy's writing is trollish. Call me strange.
 

SQLtables

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
894
Location
Secretary MOC, Inc. Frankenmuth, , USA
imported post

Pa. Patriot wrote:
SQLtables wrote:

He said "I felt the need..." If he feels more comfortable CCing around kids, then he doesn't have to back up anything.

He said he felt the need, because there were kids. I asked WHY?

He then said that he tries to be "wise" about OC. I asked if I am unwise and for him to back up that statement.

Why? Because he felt more comfrotable CCing... no more reason than that is required.

As far as being "wise", we don't know what he meant, so I'll agree with you on that point. I assume (hopefully) that he was not calling us unwise for our opinions around kids.
 

SQLtables

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
894
Location
Secretary MOC, Inc. Frankenmuth, , USA
imported post

DanM wrote:
Sailorwatson wrote:
DanM wrote:
Troll, go back under the bridge from whence you came.
Troll? No. Just a person who has expressed his opinion. In fact, he could call you a troll because of your onion. No reason to call a person names because they do not agree with you. I exercise my RIGHT to carry as I choose. Am I a Troll because I exercise my RIGHT to choose to CC?
How about less name calling and more toleration for other peoples opinions and ideas.
There's a significant difference between civil, even passionate, discourse on one's opinions and the crap the OP posted. The guy's writing is trollish. Call me strange.
You're strange!



(but I agree with you)
 

Pa. Patriot

State Researcher
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
1,441
Location
Just a "wannabe" in Mtn. Top, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

SQLtables wrote:

Why? Because he felt more comfrotable CCing... no more reason than that is required.

As far as being "wise", we don't know what he meant, so I'll agree with you on that point. I assume (hopefully) that he was not calling us unwise for our opinions around kids.

Yes, his comfort with CC is not in questions. His clear inplication was that OC around kids was not "wise.

I would not question someone's comfort level. I do question when they make statements implying that CC is required for certain situations and more so when they imply OC is not "wise"
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

Alwayspacking wrote:
Case one: I would have carried there also if I did not see a no weapons posting. Sir there is no place that is free from crime not even a church. Yes he did need his gun there.

Case two: I do not think the guy was in the same place of the rally but close to it.But with that being said, I would not carry there myself, and when I read that story I said the same thing to myselfSTUPID STUPID STUPID. But even with that said, he did not do anything wrong, and he has a right to carry there. I went to a place full of kids with my family, I felt the need to CC there being around all the kids. I try to be wise with my OC.


Did all the kids scare you? You could probably take them in a fight.

I can't understand the "What about the children" mind set. Kids need to learn that people hurt people and that there are LOTS of law abiding people that have firearms. By hiding this fact it only perpetuates the negative stereotype about guns in general.


Besides it's not the kids that are bothered by it it's the adults. For many of them it's too late to educate.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

Sailorwatson wrote:
DanM wrote:
Troll, go back under the bridge from whence you came.
Troll? No. Just a person who has expressed his opinion. In fact, he could call you a troll because of your onion. No reason to call a person names because they do not agree with you. I exercise my RIGHT to carry as I choose. Am I a Troll because I exercise my RIGHT to choose to CC?
How about less name calling and more toleration for other peoples opinions and ideas.
I like this story of Patrick Henry (Yes, that Patrick Henry.) seeing a minister being whipped to the bone, then dying 3 days latter. What was he found guilty of? Not buying a license.

"A license too often becomes an arbitrary control by government that makes a crime out of what ordinarily would not be a crime. It turns a RIGHT into a PRIVILEGE" Webster Adams, Citizens Rule Book.
 

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
imported post

Scooter123 wrote:

SNIP
There is also the fact that I could not find one single reference in the Law in regards to Open Carry while intoxicated. Which means that it's probably perfectly legal to Carry Openly while falling down drunk. At least with a CCW permit it's stated quite specifically that you may not Carry when having a blood alcohol content of more than 0.02, which is damn near stone sober.

SNIP




You may want to review this link:

MCL750.237
 

DrTodd

Michigan Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,272
Location
Hudsonville , Michigan, USA
imported post

I think most of what the Scooter123 is concerned about would be covered under
MCL750.226 Firearm or dangerous weapon; carrying with unlawful intent. Additionally, I believe that we who choose to open carry do so considering the possible ramifications of carrying and when we talk to others about the fact that we are OCing, we are polite and forthright in our response. It is when one assumes we are up to some illegal activity and physically restrain or otherwise "assault" us for carrying, that is when I have a problem.

When I talk to people about OCing, oftentimes they mention arguments such as Scooter123 has posted here. When I compare OCing to freedom of the press, and mention that I don't agree w/ everything people write/publish BUT strongly support their right to publish a paper or otherwise put their ideas down on paper, they begin to understand my view. So, yes, there MAY be those that carry openly where I personally would choose to CC. So be it. Yes, some people may not like to see a pistol at the park, church, etc. So be it. It is only when those who choose to excercise their right are attacked and vilified that we should be concerned.

Scooter123, and others, would do better to move away from acting and behaving from assumptions and start to dialogue in a respectful way.
 

quarter horseman

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2008
Messages
345
Location
Allegan co Michigan, USA
imported post

You all may not have heard this story from Grand Haven but a boater had his bike stolen off his boat, he later found it sitting outside of a local bar so he waited to see who took it. When the person came out he conffronted the theif and said he was taking his bike back the guy came at him with a knife, the boater had a ccp and was carrying, shot the knife carrying theif :celebrate. So yes there will always be a reason to carry no matter where no matter when.
 

Venator

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
6,462
Location
Lansing area, Michigan, USA
imported post

quarter horseman wrote:
You all may not have heard this story from Grand Haven but a boater had his bike stolen off his boat, he later found it sitting outside of a local bar so he waited to see who took it. When the person came out he conffronted the theif and said he was taking his bike back the guy came at him with a knife, the boater had a ccp and was carrying, shot the knife carrying theif :celebrate. So yes there will always be a reason to carry no matter where no matter when.
can you cite the article, day, year, etc. Otherwise it's just hearsay.
 

Seif5034

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Messages
169
Location
Hickory, MS
imported post

That storywould be an excellent example of how carrying (concealed or not) eliminatesthe fear of criminals.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Fellas,

The thread is drifting off-topic. If we go far enough down a discussion path we end up essentially creating a new topic.

I'm at work just now and can't participate the way I would like.

I want to expressly acknowledge that some have posted useful info for the OPer directly on point. Some have even been more or lesstactful about it.

I would like to see the postings swing back towards the assumption that the OPer is a good guy, and providing him the info he needs in order to arrive at a broader, more comprehensive view. Basically allay his concerns. We know there is little to be concerned about. Lets help him find that out for himself.
 
Top