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Thread: Wal-Marts??

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    Last edited by MillerMP; 04-15-2012 at 03:33 AM. Reason: Delete

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    MillerMP wrote:
    Hey so in general I've had good response Open Carrying in Columbia, I work armed security for a section 8 housing unit and know a lot of the local police pretty well anyways, and I've carried almost everywhere that I (legally) can. Well I went to the conley road wal-mart tonight and before I shopped i popped into the mcdees to grab a bite, well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, i just held my tongue and left but it was publically humiliating for me to be thrown out of a store by a grown man who still works for wal-mart.


    Rhyne Miller
    Spc. 1140th MP Co.
    Assist, Protect, Defend.
    If the laws of Missouri allow the open carry of firearms--what you should have told the "asset protection manager" is that you will contact corporate office and speak to them, because it is the policy of walmart to follow the laws of the states in which each store resides...if you contact their corporate office and tell them what happened and simply tell them that you will take your shopping somewhere else if this is the attitude of the store--a memeber of their "management" will most likely contact you saying how sorry they are because you were mistreated... This is my advice anyway.

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    MillerMP wrote:
    Hey so in general I've had good response Open Carrying in Columbia, I work armed security for a section 8 housing unit and know a lot of the local police pretty well anyways, and I've carried almost everywhere that I (legally) can. Well I went to the conley road wal-mart tonight and before I shopped i popped into the mcdees to grab a bite, well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, i just held my tongue and left but it was publically humiliating for me to be thrown out of a store by a grown man who still works for wal-mart.

    Rhyne Miller
    Spc. 1140th MP Co.
    Assist, Protect, Defend.
    Unless an agent of the store ordered you to leave, you should have nonchalantly said somthing like, "I'm shoppiing right now, so please leave me alone, but for your informtion, I do not need any permit to own a gun nor carry it openly, and Wal*Mart corporate policy is to allow customer gun carry in accordance with the laws of each state, so have a good day, and excuse me now gentlmen."

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    MillerMP wrote:
    Hey so in general I've had good response Open Carrying in Columbia, I work armed security for a section 8 housing unit and know a lot of the local police pretty well anyways, and I've carried almost everywhere that I (legally) can. Well I went to the conley road wal-mart tonight and before I shopped i popped into the mcdees to grab a bite, well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, i just held my tongue and left but it was publically humiliating for me to be thrown out of a store by a grown man who still works for wal-mart.


    Rhyne Miller
    Spc. 1140th MP Co.
    Assist, Protect, Defend.
    I had a few encounters with Wal-Mart employees (read my threads) The manager of Wal-Mart in jackson told me that he called the Corp. office and they told him that they did NOT want any of thier stores posted. All the encounters I had with them were of a friendly nature, I was never realy asked to leave the store, one associate did tell me I wasnt allowed to carry in the store and I very politely told her that if the store wasnt posted for no weapons it was totally legal according to Mo. laws.

  6. #6
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    suntzu wrote:
    MillerMP wrote:
    Hey so in general I've had good response Open Carrying in Columbia, I work armed security for a section 8 housing unit and know a lot of the local police pretty well anyways, and I've carried almost everywhere that I (legally) can. Well I went to the conley road wal-mart tonight and before I shopped i popped into the mcdees to grab a bite, well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, i just held my tongue and left but it was publically humiliating for me to be thrown out of a store by a grown man who still works for wal-mart.


    Rhyne Miller
    Spc. 1140th MP Co.
    Assist, Protect, Defend.
    If the laws of Missouri allow the open carry of firearms--what you should have told the "asset protection manager" is that you will contact corporate office and speak to them, because it is the policy of walmart to follow the laws of the states in which each store resides...if you contact their corporate office and tell them what happened and simply tell them that you will take your shopping somewhere else if this is the attitude of the store--a memeber of their "management" will most likely contact you saying how sorry they are because you were mistreated... This is my advice anyway.
    The portion that I've highlighted seems to be an open ended policy. I'll explain.

    If Wal*Mart's National Corp HQ has issued this as policy, but leaves it up to their store Gen Managers to handle this issue in accordance with their respective states laws, it could result in variances of individual store policies while still being in compliance with state laws. I believe that in most states, private businesses have the right to ban firearms from their premises.

    So lets take three different Wallyworlds in Tennessee.

    Store #1 has a progun Gen Manager. He/She elects to allow firearms to be carried (CC or OC) on the premises. Unless of course the store is located in a area that may be prodominently anti-gun, in which case he/she may have to ban firearms so as not to see sales fall off. These managers have to maintain health sales figures if they want to keep their jobs.

    Store #2 has a Middle of the road Gen Manager. He/She may not allow OC in this store and mayrequire you to conceal while shopping in the store.

    Store #3 has a staunch Anti-gun Gen Manager. He/She doesn't want firearms on the premises. They may not catch all the CC'ers, but the OC'ers are going to get the boot everytime they come in. Unless of course the store is located in a prodominently pro-gun area, in which case they may have to allow firearmsto keep sales up.

    All three stores (not sure about #2) would seem to be in compliance of Tenn State Laws, thereby following Walmart National Corp policy.

    As for posting signs prohibiting firearms in places of business,Tennessee statute states:

    39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posting notice. —


    (a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:



    PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).



    (b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.


    (c) Any posted notice being used by a local, state or federal governmental entity on July 1, 2000, that is in substantial compliance with the provisions of subsection (a) of this section may continue to be used by the governmental entity.


    (d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.


    [Acts 1996, ch. 905, § 11; 2000, ch. 929, § 1.]
    I don't know if Corp HQ wishes to have their stores posted or not, but if "Shall be posted" means the same as "Shall issue" (Tn is a "Shall issue state in regards to HGP's) I would think that any store or business would have to post signage declaring them off limits to firearms, in Tenn. If they don't post the signs, they can still ask you to leave the premises and they don't have to give you a reason.

    And, I think that a trespess conviction while armed can cost you your HGP in this state.

    I haven't started carrying yet, as I'm waiting for my permit to be issued. In the mean time I'm trying to familiarize myself with the laws, before I start stomping around in the mine field.


  7. #7
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    mine field, more like a quagmire



  8. #8
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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    suntzu wrote:
    MillerMP wrote:
    Hey so in general I've had good response Open Carrying in Columbia, I work armed security for a section 8 housing unit and know a lot of the local police pretty well anyways, and I've carried almost everywhere that I (legally) can. Well I went to the conley road wal-mart tonight and before I shopped i popped into the mcdees to grab a bite, well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, i just held my tongue and left but it was publically humiliating for me to be thrown out of a store by a grown man who still works for wal-mart.


    Rhyne Miller
    Spc. 1140th MP Co.
    Assist, Protect, Defend.
    If the laws of Missouri allow the open carry of firearms--what you should have told the "asset protection manager" is that you will contact corporate office and speak to them, because it is the policy of walmart to follow the laws of the states in which each store resides...if you contact their corporate office and tell them what happened and simply tell them that you will take your shopping somewhere else if this is the attitude of the store--a memeber of their "management" will most likely contact you saying how sorry they are because you were mistreated... This is my advice anyway.

    The portion that I've highlighted seems to be an open ended policy. I'll explain.

    If Wal*Mart's National Corp HQ has issued this as policy, but leaves it up to their store Gen Managers to handle this issue in accordance with their respective states laws, it could result in variances of individual store policies while still being in compliance with state laws. I believe that in most states, private businesses have the right to ban firearms from their premises.

    So lets take three different Wallyworlds in Tennessee.

    Store #1 has a progun Gen Manager. He/She elects to allow firearms to be carried (CC or OC) on the premises. Unless of course the store is located in a area that may be prodominently anti-gun, in which case he/she may have to ban firearms so as not to see sales fall off. These managers have to maintain health sales figures if they want to keep their jobs.

    Store #2 has a Middle of the road Gen Manager. He/She may not allow OC in this store and mayrequire you to conceal while shopping in the store.

    Store #3 has a staunch Anti-gun Gen Manager. He/She doesn't want firearms on the premises. They may not catch all the CC'ers, but the OC'ers are going to get the boot everytime they come in. Unless of course the store is located in a prodominently pro-gun area, in which case they may have to allow firearmsto keep sales up.

    All three stores (not sure about #2) would seem to be in compliance of Tenn State Laws, thereby following Walmart National Corp policy.

    As for posting signs prohibiting firearms in places of business,Tennessee statute states:


    39-17-1359. Prohibition at certain meetings — Posting notice. —



    (a) An individual, corporation, business entity or local, state or federal government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit the possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by §§ 39-17-1351 — 39-17-1360, at meetings conducted by, or on property owned, operated, or managed or under the control of the individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of the prohibition shall be posted. Posted notices shall be displayed in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited. If the possession of weapons is also prohibited on the premises of the property as well as within the confines of a building located on the property, the notice shall be posted at all entrances to the premises that are primarily used by persons entering the property. The notice shall be in English but a notice may also be posted in any language used by patrons, customers or persons who frequent the place where weapon possession is prohibited. In addition to the sign, notice may also include the international circle and slash symbolizing the prohibition of the item within the circle. The sign shall be of a size that is plainly visible to the average person entering the building, premises or property and shall contain language substantially similar to the following:




    PURSUANT TO § 39-17-1359, THE OWNER/OPERATOR OF THIS PROPERTY HAS BANNED WEAPONS ON THIS PROPERTY, OR WITHIN THIS BUILDING OR THIS PORTION OF THIS BUILDING. FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS PROHIBITION IS PUNISHABLE AS A CRIMINAL ACT UNDER STATE LAW AND MAY SUBJECT THE VIOLATOR TO A FINE OF NOT MORE THAN FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS ($500).





    (b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to alter, reduce or eliminate any civil or criminal liability that a property owner or manager may have for injuries arising on their property.



    (c) Any posted notice being used by a local, state or federal governmental entity on July 1, 2000, that is in substantial compliance with the provisions of subsection (a) of this section may continue to be used by the governmental entity.



    (d) The provisions of this section shall not apply to title 70 regarding wildlife laws, rules and regulations.



    [Acts 1996, ch. 905, § 11; 2000, ch. 929, § 1.]

    I don't know if Corp HQ wishes to have their stores posted or not, but if "Shall be posted" means the same as "Shall issue" (Tn is a "Shall issue state in regards to HGP's) I would think that any store or business would have to post signage declaring them off limits to firearms, in Tenn. If they don't post the signs, they can still ask you to leave the premises and they don't have to give you a reason.

    And, I think that a trespess conviction while armed can cost you your HGP in this state.

    I haven't started carrying yet, as I'm waiting for my permit to be issued. In the mean time I'm trying to familiarize myself with the laws, before I start stomping around in the mine field.
    I believe that you are stomping around in a TN minefield on a MO forum. The laws of TN and MO are quite different.

  9. #9
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    Mike wrote:
    MillerMP wrote:
    ...well as I'm waiting for my food i got their 'asset protection manager' and like 5 employees circling me and him asking me if i had permits, why i had a gun, and informing basically to get out of the store, ...
    Unless an agent of the store ordered you to leave...
    Ummm, Mike, the store's asset protection manager is indisputably an agent of the store.


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