Shopping in Frankenmuth

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dougwg wrote:

MrsRuger45 wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what is being planned for the Frankenmuth gathering, but I did want to let ya'll know that Octoberfest is going on the 18th-21st at Heritage Park. I assume they take up the whole park, so we might want to picnic somewhere else. We could always attend the "fest" after our picnic. Admission is free on sunday!

And........SQLtables, are we to assume that you'll be taking care of notifying the F'muth police chief of our gathering once a date is set in stone?????

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No one should be "notifying" anyone! It serves no purpose. Although I do see it as a "I dare you" type of thing. Unless you mean only to invite him to a friendly gathering.

If that IS the case, call it that, an invitation.



Words mean stuff

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Not riding dougwg wave.......if city invite mayor city manager , city council etc ,,, if village in invite president and village counsel ect

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fine i will invite him to have a hotdog.dont matter to me.how ever you want to put it.

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ruger45 wrote:

fine i will invite him to have a hotdog.dont matter to me.how ever you want to put it.

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Not to be rude invite all elected and appointed [ know how you felt left out if not invited to baby shower?]

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dougwg wrote:

MrsRuger45 wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what is being planned for the Frankenmuth gathering, but I did want to let ya'll know that Octoberfest is going on the 18th-21st at Heritage Park. I assume they take up the whole park, so we might want to picnic somewhere else. We could always attend the "fest" after our picnic. Admission is free on sunday!

And........SQLtables, are we to assume that you'll be taking care of notifying the F'muth police chief of our gathering once a date is set in stone?????

Click to expand...

No one should be "notifying" anyone! It serves no purpose. Although I do see it as a "I dare you" type of thing. Unless you mean only to invite him to a friendly gathering.

If that IS the case, call it that, an invitation.



Words mean stuff

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You know what, I'm going to speak my mind here, the point of us going there is because the police chief said we could not OC there. So he needs to know that we ARE going to be there. And it is a rub in your face, but oh well, he'll get over it. And if he didn't know we were there, this whole picnic would serve no purpose at all & would be a waste of everyone's time. I thought the point of our picnics were to educate the public & sometimes the police too. If we just wanted to get together to have a cookout, we would just gather on private property at SQLtable's house.

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ruger45 wrote:

dougwg wrote:

MrsRuger45 wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what is being planned for the Frankenmuth gathering, but I did want to let ya'll know that Octoberfest is going on the 18th-21st at Heritage Park. I assume they take up the whole park, so we might want to picnic somewhere else. We could always attend the "fest" after our picnic. Admission is free on sunday!

And........SQLtables, are we to assume that you'll be taking care of notifying the F'muth police chief of our gathering once a date is set in stone?????

Click to expand...

No one should be "notifying" anyone! It serves no purpose. Although I do see it as a "I dare you" type of thing. Unless you mean only to invite him to a friendly gathering.

If that IS the case, call it that, an invitation.



Words mean stuff

Click to expand...

You know what, I'm going to speak my mind here, the point of us going there is because the police chief said we could not OC there. So he needs to know that we ARE going to be there. And it is a rub in your face, but oh well, he'll get over it. And if he didn't know we were there, this whole picnic would serve no purpose at all & would be a waste of everyone's time. I thought the point of our picnics were to educate the public & sometimes the police too. If we just wanted to get together to have a cookout, we would just gather on private property at SQLtable's house.

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POLICE chiefs come and go they are appointed by elected people ! use the RULE book at take away playground plus toys ????

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ruger45 wrote:

dougwg wrote:

MrsRuger45 wrote:

I'm not sure exactly what is being planned for the Frankenmuth gathering, but I did want to let ya'll know that Octoberfest is going on the 18th-21st at Heritage Park. I assume they take up the whole park, so we might want to picnic somewhere else. We could always attend the "fest" after our picnic. Admission is free on sunday!

And........SQLtables, are we to assume that you'll be taking care of notifying the F'muth police chief of our gathering once a date is set in stone?????

Click to expand...

No one should be "notifying" anyone! It serves no purpose. Although I do see it as a "I dare you" type of thing. Unless you mean only to invite him to a friendly gathering.

If that IS the case, call it that, an invitation.



Words mean stuff

Click to expand...

You know what, I'm going to speak my mind here, the point of us going there is because the police chief said we could not OC there. So he needs to know that we ARE going to be there. And it is a rub in your face, but oh well, he'll get over it. And if he didn't know we were there, this whole picnic would serve no purpose at all & would be a waste of everyone's time. I thought the point of our picnics were to educate the public & sometimes the police too. If we just wanted to get together to have a cookout, we would just gather on private property at SQLtable's house.

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True we want to educate, BUT we don't want to be too confrontational, maybe just a bit. If we picnic (on public property) and don't tell the chief, that's still good, because we post pictures and talk about it afterwords and people see one more time that people OCed and didn't get hassled.

If lots of other people are around they see we are lawful, and that's good, If someone calls the police on us and they show up we educate the LEO's on the spot. They go back and talk about it with the other officers, chief, PA etc. and word gets out as well. So any picnic on public property whether we let the chief know or not is win-win for us. Getting the idea now?

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Venator wrote:

True we want to educate, BUT we don't want to be too confrontational, maybe just a bit. If we picnic (on public property) and don't tell the chief, that's still good, because we post pictures and talk about it after words and people see one more time that people OCed and didn't get hassled.

If lots of other people are around they see we are lawful, and that's good, If someone calls the police on us and they show up we educate the LEO's on the spot. They go back and talk about it with the other officers, chief, PA etc. and word gets out as well. So any picnic on public property whether we let the chief know or not is win-win for us. Getting the idea now?

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+1.

I appreciate ruger's robust willingness to educate (and he's right that the OC movement isabout education along with simple exercise of rights), but I'm in Venator's camp on the manner of it he speaks about. Idon't want to be confrontational--even slightly--just assertive. Pleasantly assertive,as much as I can, but at least calmly assertive at all times.

I wouldn't care if the local PD is made aware of a gathering.But if I wished to make them aware it would be phrased as "I am inviting you to . . ." rather than "I am notifying you that . . ."

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DanM wrote:

Venator wrote:

True we want to educate, BUT we don't want to be too confrontational, maybe just a bit. If we picnic (on public property) and don't tell the chief, that's still good, because we post pictures and talk about it after words and people see one more time that people OCed and didn't get hassled.

If lots of other people are around they see we are lawful, and that's good, If someone calls the police on us and they show up we educate the LEO's on the spot. They go back and talk about it with the other officers, chief, PA etc. and word gets out as well. So any picnic on public property whether we let the chief know or not is win-win for us. Getting the idea now?

Click to expand...

+1.

I appreciate ruger's robust willingness to educate (and he's right that the OC movement isabout education along with simple exercise of rights), but I'm in Venator's camp on the manner of it he speaks about. Idon't want to be confrontational--even slightly--just assertive. Pleasantly assertive,as much as I can, but at least calmly assertive at all times.

I wouldn't care if the local PD is made aware of a gathering.But if I wished to make them aware it would be phrased as "I am inviting you to . . ." rather than "I am notifying you that . . ."

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+1 ditto, kudos, etc etc

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What is the difference between all the coverage that the Warren picnic received, even before the event happened& someone inviting the Frankenmuth police chief to an event? The whole reason why we are having a picnic in Frankenmuth is because the police chief said we WILL NOTcarry in his town. If everyone shows up & he doesn't know we are there, everyone is wasting their time. If other people at the park see us that day & we are able to educate them, that is great, but the point here is that the Frankenmuth police chief needs some education.

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ruger45 wrote:

What is the difference between all the coverage that the Warren picnic received, even before the event happened& someone inviting the Frankenmuth police chief to an event? The whole reason why we are having a picnic in Frankenmuth is because the police chief said we WILL NOTcarry in his town. If everyone shows up & he doesn't know we are there, everyone is wasting their time. If other people at the park see us that day & we are able to educate them, that is great, but the point here is that the Frankenmuth police chief needs some education.

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You are correct. ALL anyone is saying is to extend an "invitation" to the chief, mayor, city council etc etc. Do not call and say this is what we are doing like it or not, hence "notifying".

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Hm... I totally forgot that the 21st is Oktoberfest. The city will be pretty busy then, so I suppose that's a plus. The problem, as mrsruger pointed out, there probably won't be much picnic space around.

We can always just meet somewhere in town, and then hit up all the shops. I suppose we could meet at Mcdonalds or something for lunch, and then walk or drive downtown.

I agree that the chief needs to know we will be there, but I believe he needs to be invited to whatever we decide to do. On the other hand, if we really do decide to do this during the festival, I'm sure he'll hear about us.

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taxwhat wrote:

ruger45 wrote:

i could call him and let him know so he can hang up on me again.:banghead:

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Help is Frankenmuth city , village or other ?

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It's a city.
www.frankenmuthcity.com

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DanM wrote:

Venator wrote:

True we want to educate, BUT we don't want to be too confrontational, maybe just a bit. If we picnic (on public property) and don't tell the chief, that's still good, because we post pictures and talk about it after words and people see one more time that people OCed and didn't get hassled.

If lots of other people are around they see we are lawful, and that's good, If someone calls the police on us and they show up we educate the LEO's on the spot. They go back and talk about it with the other officers, chief, PA etc. and word gets out as well. So any picnic on public property whether we let the chief know or not is win-win for us. Getting the idea now?

Click to expand...

+1.

I appreciate ruger's robust willingness to educate (and he's right that the OC movement isabout education along with simple exercise of rights), but I'm in Venator's camp on the manner of it he speaks about. Idon't want to be confrontational--even slightly--just assertive. Pleasantly assertive,as much as I can, but at least calmly assertive at all times.

I wouldn't care if the local PD is made aware of a gathering.But if I wished to make them aware it would be phrased as "I am inviting you to . . ." rather than "I am notifying you that . . ."

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While I won’t be attending the gathering in Frankenmuth, I must agree with Brian on this. One of the things that puts people (especially fellow gun owners) off about OC is the image that OC’ers are “too pushy”, or “in your face“. It’s a negative image, because “pushy people” are more often than not considered “hot heads” (it is also, more often than not, a deserved reputation). The Michigan OC movement has been able to reject such accusations because, thus far, those involved have not been “confrontational”. This is also one of the reasons why there is a recurrent theme of “don’t bother asking the police if it’s okay to OC.” Sending them a info packet to peruse at their leisure is one thing, but trying to engage them in a conversation (which can easily become confrontational) has proven time and again to be of little benefit.

Face it, calling the PD was a mistake. I think it unwise to further compound that mistake
by seeking confrontation.

It’s your picnic to do what you want with, but keep in mind that how things go down will reflect on all gun owners. If you think “inviting” the Chief (when he already expressed his displeasure at the concept of OC in his town) isn’t “in your face” and confrontational in a passive/aggressive manner, then I humbly and respectfully submit that you are in denial.

BTW,
DanM is also correct. There is a difference between being assertive, and passive/aggressive. The former is healthy, and gets better results, the latter usually leads to problems.

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While I think you're right about not being pushy, I don't think calling the PD was a mistake. He called to make sure the chief knew it was legal. I have a feeling this lead to the non-events caused by me OCing at autofest. It probably prompted a reminder to all of the reserve officers who were on the streets.

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I really regret that it seems I've started all this discussion by using the word "notify" instead of "invite". I guess from now on I'll triple think anything that I post here before doing so. While I agree that having a picnic & being successful in OCing withoutincident would be a great thing, I still think that the chief needs to know that we will be there. Call it what ever you want when he is told about it. To me, if he doesn't know that we are there, it is like having a million dollars & not being able to spend it.

I do hope, as SQLtables suggested,that the phone call the ruger45 made to the police dept. did help to educate the F'muth police & was part of the reason that SQLtables was successful while carrying on friday. I know that ruger45 is eager to carry in Frankenmuth since we usually attend several events there every year.

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MrsRuger45 wrote:

I really regret that it seems I've started all this discussion by using the word "notify" instead of "invite". I guess from now on I'll triple think anything that I post here before doing so. While I agree that having a picnic & being successful in OCing withoutincident would be a great thing, I still think that the chief needs to know that we will be there. Call it what ever you want when he is told about it. To me, if he doesn't know that we are there, it is like having a million dollars & not being able to spend it.

I do hope, as SQLtables suggested,that the phone call the ruger45 made to the police dept. did help to educate the F'muth police & was part of the reason that SQLtables was successful while carrying on friday. I know that ruger45 is eager to carry in Frankenmuth since we usually attend several events there every year.

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+1, just don't let all of this talk make you the least bit apprehensive to post what you think.

Now, we'll invite the chief, and whoever else you guys want to invite. Let's get back to planning.

Who all can make it on the 21st? It sounds like a few people are OK with that day, we'll just have to figure out where we want to go for a picnic. There aren't really any pavillions available during the festivals. Maybe we could just have a pre-shopping tailgate party. We would need a portable gas grill, and some chairs. Just a thought...

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A tailgate party sounds great! I wonder if we could all park at River Place & maybe set up some chairs on the grassy area to the southeast of the shopping center? I think we might be able to borrow some folding tables.

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MrsRuger45 wrote:

A tailgate party sounds great! I wonder if we could all park at River Place & maybe set up some chairs on the grassy area to the southeast of the shopping center? I think we might be able to borrow some folding tables.

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Well, I'm worried that there might not be much parking over that way, since it's still fairly close to the festival. Plus, I'm not sure, but I assume the lot right near the River Place is private property, I'd have to look into that. Even though it's during a festival, and they wouldn't think about it for anybody else, I would hate to be "loitering" while we OC.... Like I said, I'm not sure what is private and what is owned by the city there.

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SQLtables wrote:

+1, just don't let all of this talk make you the least bit apprehensive to post what you think.
...

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I agree. All this talk is just that. It's just people sharing ideas. There is no need (nor should there be) for anyone to feel defensive. Take peoples opinions with a grain of salt. Not all of them will be agreeable to each individual.

On that note, upon re-reading my post, I should have stated that "I" think calling the Chief was a mistake.

As I said, "do what you want". I was just tossing in my $.02. Feel free to discount it if you don't agree with it.

I think it's a bad idea to seek out confrontation (and that is the motivation behind contacting the Chief about the picnic) in this manner. If you do want the attention, a press release would be even better, because it will target (and reach) more people. Also, it makes it harder for the Chief to violate peoples rights when the press is watching.

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ghostrider wrote:

SQLtables wrote:

+1, just don't let all of this talk make you the least bit apprehensive to post what you think.
...

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SNIP: a press release would be even better, because it will target (and reach) more people. Also, it makes it harder for the Chief to violate peoples rights when the press is watching.

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+1

I was NOT attacking or trying to be offensive in my replies when the question was asked If SQL would be taking on the task of notifying the F'muth PD. All i was trying to say, as Doug has said many times over and over.........."words mean stuff". Lets try to be educational without being confrontational. One of our many goals.

Listing just those that I personally have attended.

Burton, a success. It was printed in the paper, quotes from the PD and several handouts were given to the people that inquired.

Grand Rapids, a success. People inquired and were educated.

Warren, a success. Tons of coverage, LE involvement, LE quotes and we educated a lot of people.

Lapeer, other than getting together for a picnic with good friends and shooting at the pit, it was a waste of time IMO. No one knew we were there. As far I know, NO information was handed out.

Lets do "something" so that F'muth doesn't become a second Lapeer. IF no one knows we are there. IF no info sheets get handed out. If NO ONE gets educated, I have to ask....."what's the point"? Other than simply exercising our rights.