Loaned pistols for carry

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My Grandfather is going out of town for a while, and because he doesn't have a gun safe (and lives in Dearborn), he left all his pistols with my family. Among the loaned pistols is what I believe to be a WWII Colt 1911. Now my Grandpa has a CPL, and so do I. Could I carry his 1911 if he gave me permission to do so?

The thing is just gorgeous, and is quite the piece of history. I'd love to be able to carry it. I'd probably go for concealed, though, to avoid any registration issues if confronted.

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You have a CPL.

You can borrow ANY and as many hand guns from anyone as long as the gun is "properly registered".

Because you have a CPL I would suggest that he "lone" all his guns to you while he is away.

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So how would this work if I was for some reason stopped by an officer and he decides to run the serials? They'll come up under a different name. Will a simple explanation do, or will it be confiscated until they can contact him?

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I had this happen while deer hunting with a borrowed 44mag. In my circumstance, the DNR officer said that he just checked if it was reported stolen. Since it wasn't, it was no problem. Although it may not help, I would be prepared to show the officer a copy of law just in case.

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Rogue9er wrote:

So how would this work if I was for some reason stopped by an officer and he decides to run the serials? They'll come up under a different name. Will a simple explanation do, or will it be confiscated until they can contact him?

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As long as the firearm was obtained legally and is properly registered you "should" have no problems. As explained any CPL holder can borrow/have loaned to them/carry a firearm that belongs to someone else.

I am not a lawyer, nor did i stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. If i were to engage in carrying a "loaned" firearm, i would print out the relative "legal" info and have it handy. You never know.

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Rogue9er wrote:

My Grandfather is going out of town for a while, and because he doesn't have a gun safe (and lives in Dearborn), he left all his pistols with my family. Among the loaned pistols is what I believe to be a WWII Colt 1911. Now my Grandpa has a CPL, and so do I. Could I carry his 1911 if he gave me permission to do so?

The thing is just gorgeous, and is quite the piece of history. I'd love to be able to carry it. I'd probably go for concealed, though, to avoid any registration issues if confronted.

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RE: Loaning a pistol.

This is a response from MCRGO. Also, see link (Public Act 75).

[align=left]I have been told that I cannot loan my pistol to another person. I cannot even hand it to my wife when we are at the range together for her to try it. Is that true?

A:
Effective July 1, 2006, Public Act 75 adds additional information about loaning a pistol to another person.

There is no law against loaning a pistol. The law (MCL 28.421) was amended four years ago to take out the prohibition on loaning a pistol.

While MCL 28.429 states that a person who "comes into possession" of a pistol must present it for safety inspection, no time period is stated in which the inspection must be performed. A person could present it within one day or one year. During that period the person can legally posses the pistol without the green card. In civil law, when no time is stated, a "reasonable time" is presumed. The rule is different for criminal law. In any event the time for presenting the gun for safety inspection is longer than a day at the range or a trip to a shooting meet.

MCL 28.422 requires a person to return a portion of the pistol purchase license to the police within ten days after purchase. This is when the safety inspection is performed in a purchase situation. There is no corresponding provision for a person who "comes into possession" of a pistol by loan.

Sometimes I tell people, who plan to have their spouse's pistol for an extended length of time, to present the pistol for safety inspection. There is nothing in the law that states that more than one person cannot have the pistol safety inspected. In every instance, the person reported back to me that the police refused to inspect the pistol unless there was a sale or transfer of ownership. I simply told them to make a record of their attempt. The record would be good to have if the issue ever arises. [/align]

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Just an update here, I found that the Colt was made in 1916, and is military issue. If I can get it fixed in time, I think I'm going to OC it at the Ann Arbor picnic, as I probably won't be able to afford the M&P that I want before then. I hope the cops don't try to take it...

On that note, what would happen if I ever ended up having to use it on someone (god forbid)? I'd probably never see it again, even if I wasn't charged. Does anyone have experience with such things?

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Rogue9er wrote:

So how would this work if I was for some reason stopped by an officer and he decides to run the serials? They'll come up under a different name. Will a simple explanation do, or will it be confiscated until they can contact him?

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Really the police shouldn't even run it, any more than they should see if you own the cell phone you have. Do not offer your handgun for any police officer to "run" to see if you legally own it. If they insist let THEM take it. Then file a report and complain. The only time that's legal is if it matches a stolen gun. Listen there is no way they should be asking for proof that you own a gun. Don't give them that power. Would you let them check to see if you own the ipod you have. How is your firearm any different. People we have to stop doing everything the police ask us to or we will end up with more of a police state then we have. If we have to comply due to a law, well that's one thing, but for Gods sake don't offer anything more.

Rant over.

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Ok, it's not required, and it is your choice, but I always carry a copy of my green cards for any pistol I might carry.

But honestly, if the pistol is that old, I'm not so sure I'd carry it. Depending on it's condition, it could be worth quite a lot.

Again, your choice, and just my opinion.

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Big Gay Al wrote:

Ok, it's not required, and it is your choice, but I always carry a copy of my green cards for any pistol I might carry.

But honestly, if the pistol is that old, I'm not so sure I'd carry it. Depending on it's condition, it could be worth quite a lot.

Again, your choice, and just my opinion.

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Why? Do you carry the receipt of the clothes you are wearing? How about your cell phone? How about when you are driving someone else's car, how do you prove it's not stolen? See where I'm going? Really, do the police think that someone that is carrying a stolen handgun is going to carry it openly? I know some people are stupid but what are the odds?

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Big Gay Al wrote:

Ok, it's not required, and it is your choice, but I always carry a copy of my green cards for any pistol I might carry.

But honestly, if the pistol is that old, I'm not so sure I'd carry it. Depending on it's condition, it could be worth quite a lot.

Again, your choice, and just my opinion.

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Well, I presume my Grandfather has the green cards. And yes, it was appraised for $1500-$2000. But I'm a poor college student, and it's pretty much my only option.

There's something awesome about having an old war pistol. I wish I could just get a modern 1911, but I'm saving up for many things. Like spring break in Mexico, lol.

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:what:That wouldn't be a tuff call for me to make, I'd do the 1911 before any spring break on any piece of realestate in the world, unless it was a spring break that involved taking wild game..

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Carnivore wrote:

:what:That wouldn't be a tuff call for me to make, I'd do the 1911 before any spring break on any piece of realestate in the world, unless it was a spring break that involved taking wild game..

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How about spelunking, cliff diving, and the exploration of ruins?

But to bring up another question, does anyone know what happens to guns used in self-defense?

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Venator wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

Ok, it's not required, and it is your choice, but I always carry a copy of my green cards for any pistol I might carry.

But honestly, if the pistol is that old, I'm not so sure I'd carry it. Depending on it's condition, it could be worth quite a lot.

Again, your choice, and just my opinion.

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Why? Do you carry the receipt of the clothes you are wearing? How about your cell phone? How about when you are driving someone else's car, how do you prove it's not stolen? See where I'm going? Really, do the police think that someone that is carrying a stolen handgun is going to carry it openly? I know some people are stupid but what are the odds?

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"Why?" Simple, to keep some dumb cop from confiscating my gun until I can "prove" I own it. Frankly, I don't know what cops think anymore. Do I "want to carry" a photo copy of my green cards? No. But I don't want them to take my guns to the station until I show up there later to claim them either.

Do you see what I'm getting at? You don't have to carry the green card, or a copy of it, the MSP even says so. But they also advise that you should carry it. So far, I've only ever had one cop ask to see my green card, and that was a DNR cop. But I figure, better safe than sorry. And you can bet, if I was packing a $1500.00 gun, I'd have that green card, or a copy of it on me.

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Rogue9er wrote:

Carnivore wrote:

:what:That wouldn't be a tuff call for me to make, I'd do the 1911 before any spring break on any piece of realestate in the world, unless it was a spring break that involved taking wild game..

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How about spelunking, cliff diving, and the exploration of ruins?

But to bring up another question, does anyone know what happens to guns used in self-defense?

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From what I've read, that can vary from one jurisdiction to another. In some cases you MIGHT get it back. In others, it's not so clear cut. But I think a lot of that was before the castle doctrine laws that included the changes that stop lawsuits against you, if you did defend yourself, lawfully. I've heard of stories where the gun was kept for "pending action" or "in case of a civil suit." Really, you might want to ask a lawyer about that.

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Venator wrote:

Absolute Lawful Truth.... (A.L.T.)

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Big Gay Al wrote:

Absolute Possible Reality....(A.P.R.)

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Both of you are right.

Venator is absolutely correct about not having to carry the green card.
Big Gay Al is absolutely correct about having the green card on you so a dumb cop won't take your gun.

So, the choice is yours. If it's your ONLY sidearm (or a very expensive one that the cops might like to keep for themselves)I would suggest carrying the green card so that it's less likely to be taken andyouleft defenseless.

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I carry the cards for 3 pistols with me at any time my wallet is with me, but have only loaned a pistol once for hunting, and I was hunting with the fella at the same time so I know where the gun was,what it was being used for, and how many shots were fired from the pistol, and what was being shot at..

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I'll explain my reason a little bit further. This lesson comes by way of New Orleans, when I was working security down there, after Katrina. The company that hired me, hired a LOT of guys, most of us were either ex-military, or LEOs who were taking a leave of absence to help out. We were getting paid $1200.00 a week. This was before taxes.

Anyway, I'm down there with my Taurus PT911. Since we were told before hand, we'd be working 12 hour shifts, I didn't want to be packing something too heavy for 12+ hours every day. However, I noticed more than a few guys were packing Hi-Points. In either 9mm or .40S&W. Now, I'd always been told by gun dealers that Hi-Point pistols were crap, and that no one should carry one. But most of these guys were cops, from other states.

I finally got around to asking one guy, why the Hi-Point. He told me this.

"First, it works. I can shoot this gun all day, not clean it, and it still works. In fact, cleaning is pretty rudimentary on this. You don't take it apart too much to clean it. Next, it's reliable. I've put over 2000 rounds through it without one single jam. Finally (and this was the money shot) If I shoot someone in self defense, the cops are gonna take it until things get sorted out. And more than likely, I will get it back. And even if I don't, I'm only out $120.00. If I'd brought my Glock, chances are good, it would have gotten "lost." That happens here. It's not called the "Big Easy" for nothing."

Now, I'm not saying that cops in Michigan are as bad, but there are bad cops. And sometimes, bad things happen, when they shouldn't.

As long as I have a copy of my green cards, I've got that much more on my side to keep them from taking my gun, until I prove it's mine.

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Carnivore wrote:

I carry the cards for 3 pistols with me at any time my wallet is with me, but have only loaned a pistol once for hunting, and I was hunting with the fella at the same time so I know where the gun was,what it was being used for, and how many shots were fired from the pistol, and what was being shot at..

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I put all mine, that I might carry on my scanner, scanned and printed it out on a single page, that's what I carry. The originals stay locked up.

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Big Gay Al wrote:

Venator wrote:

Big Gay Al wrote:

Ok, it's not required, and it is your choice, but I always carry a copy of my green cards for any pistol I might carry.

But honestly, if the pistol is that old, I'm not so sure I'd carry it. Depending on it's condition, it could be worth quite a lot.

Again, your choice, and just my opinion.

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Why? Do you carry the receipt of the clothes you are wearing? How about your cell phone? How about when you are driving someone else's car, how do you prove it's not stolen? See where I'm going? Really, do the police think that someone that is carrying a stolen handgun is going to carry it openly? I know some people are stupid but what are the odds?

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"Why?" Simple, to keep some dumb cop from confiscating my gun until I can "prove" I own it. Frankly, I don't know what cops think anymore. Do I "want to carry" a photo copy of my green cards? No. But I don't want them to take my guns to the station until I show up there later to claim them either.

Do you see what I'm getting at? You don't have to carry the green card, or a copy of it, the MSP even says so. But they also advise that you should carry it. So far, I've only ever had one cop ask to see my green card, and that was a DNR cop. But I figure, better safe than sorry. And you can bet, if I was packing a $1500.00 gun, I'd have that green card, or a copy of it on me.

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Again Why? They have the number in a computer so they can run it. My real point is don't let them run it, any more than you would let them make you prove you own the shirt on your back. DON'T GIVE THEM THAT POWER. What are you going to do when the new law comes out and you don't have a "green card" anymore? If they take your gun for any unlawful reason it's an illegal seizure.