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Thread: Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs?

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    Regular Member SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP's Avatar
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    Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???

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    What signs?

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    Deleted - double post--sorry

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    SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP wrote:
    Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
    Lets first remember that no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable. Of course, if they ask you to leave when they see your gun, and you don't, then you're trespassing.

    Anyway with that said, I do not go unarmed where I don't have to, so I guess my answer would be no. I often conceal when entering such areas in order to avoid confrontation, but that's about it. I've even open carried in places with "No Concealed Weapons" signs, without incident.

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    DreQo: "no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable"

    Seriously? I was trying to look that up but have been unsuccessful. (not being a lawyer I talk in plain English)

    Can you post some reference?

    -R


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    DreQo wrote:
    SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP wrote:
    Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
    Lets first remember that no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable. Of course, if they ask you to leave when they see your gun, and you don't, then you're trespassing.
    And if you don't leave they will call the cops and you'll be arrested for tresspass. That sounds like "legally enforcable" to me. The "No Weapons" signs are your first warning. Verbally asking you to leave is your second warning. And they may not have to give you the second warning, if their signs are properly posted.

    Do you go Hunting/Fishing/Swimming on private property that has been posted "NO Hunting/Fishing/Swimming"?

    Would you try to sneak alcoholic beverages into a sporting event that had signs posted "NO Alcoholic Berverages Allowed"? Your not asked to leave, if caught in this instance, you're excorted from the premises in cuffs and taken to jail.

    The signage, if legally posted,IS enforcable. Otherwise, it would be pointless to post the signs in the first place.

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    DreQo wrote:
    SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP wrote:
    Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
    Lets first remember that no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable. Of course, if they ask you to leave when they see your gun, and you don't, then you're trespassing.

    Anyway with that said, I do not go unarmed where I don't have to, so I guess my answer would be no. I often conceal when entering such areas in order to avoid confrontation, but that's about it. I've even open carried in places with "No Concealed Weapons" signs, without incident.

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    The signage, if legally posted,IS enforcable.
    Please define "if legally posted."

    To me, "legally posted" means it's backed up by an ordinance or statute.

    "No hunting/fishing/swimming" is usually backed up by an ordiance or statute.

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    Statkowski wrote:
    The signage, if legally posted,IS enforcable.
    Please define "if legally posted."

    To me, "legally posted" means it's backed up by an ordinance or statute.

    "No hunting/fishing/swimming" is usually backed up by an ordiance or statute.
    You'll have to look into your states statutes. Tennessee does have a statute concerning No firearms signage which mandates the size of the sign, the lettering, and specific locations for them to be posted. If a business post a sign as prescribed by the state of Tn, it is "legally posted".

    I believe that statute is Tenn Code 39-17-1359. I posted it here:

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum33/15784.html

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    rdinatal wrote:
    DreQo: "no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable"

    Seriously? I was trying to look that up but have been unsuccessful. (not being a lawyer I talk in plain English)

    Can you post some reference?

    -R
    Yep!
    § 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

    (b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.

    (c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.
    Read the boldfaced portions as one sentence for easy reading. This general statute clearly states that a concealed handgun permits does not authorize a person to carry where a sign has been posted. It DOES NOT say that the person is unauthorized to do so, nor does it say that theact is unlawful. In fact, there is NO statute that says carrying where a sign is posted is unlawful. So, without a law saying it's illegal, it is of course legal.

    In the absence of any applicable law, we refer to the rights of a private property owner. They can ask you to leave their property for ANY reason, or no reason at all. If you do not comply, then they can call the police and have you removed. At that point you will more than likely be facing a charge of trespassing, of course. This, however, would NOT be a firearms related violation.

    Also, a sign does not constitute an "official warning" in this case. A no weapons sign on a property holds as much power as a no running sign at a swimming pool. You cannot be immediately arrested without question for disobeying either, but you'll probably be asked to leave. Make sense?

    I'm sorry Task Force 16, but the laws are a little different here in NC, as is to be expected.

    Source:

    http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedl...ticle_54b.html

    (I'm not a lawyer, or anyone else you can blame things on )

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    I'm sorry Task Force 16, but the laws are a little different here in NC, as is to be expected.

    NO apology necessary. I figured the laws might differ, that's why I said one should check their own state statutes.

    I noticed that NC Statutes do not define "display" of firearms. And that NC state law is not preemptive of local statutes. It appears, unless I misunderstand, that counties or cities could adopt ordinances that prohibit OC, siting that OC is
    "displaying" a firearm. Have you had much problem with that in NC.

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    if i see the no weapon sign i dont go in or leave the weapon in the car i done this for banks,restuarants that serve alcohol,and malls

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    I'm sorry Task Force 16, but the laws are a little different here in NC, as is to be expected.

    NO apology necessary. I figured the laws might differ, that's why I said one should check their own state statutes.

    I noticed that NC Statutes do not define "display" of firearms. And that NC state law is not preemptive of local statutes. It appears, unless I misunderstand, that counties or cities could adopt ordinances that prohibit OC, siting that OC is
    "displaying" a firearm. Have you had much problem with that in NC.
    NC law is strongly preempted, but not completely so. There's some wiggle room in regards to local parks and such, and of regulating "display" of firearms.The latter issueis actually a very small one. They can't actually tell you not NOT to display it, but rather they have some leeway as far as regulating HOW you can display it. Chapel Hill, NC has done this by requiring that any openly carried firearm is at least 6 inches in length. I'm assuming this is to make sure that the gun is visible.

    I think Cary, NC has tried to ban open carry, but I haven't paid much mind to that issue since I've yet to be in that area. I have yet to hear of anyone actually being arrested, though, so I don't know.

    As far as practically carrying around the State, the slight lack of preemption is more of a nuisance than anything. It requires you to take a little extra time to check local ordinances when going into parks and recreational facilities, but that's about it. I have never had to steer clear of an entire town or city because of it.

    All that being said, it still definitely needs to be fixed.

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    North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.

    NC GS 14-415, states:
    14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)



    As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.

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    RayBurton72 wrote:
    North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.

    NC GS 14-415, states:
    14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)



    As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
    Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.

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    DreQo wrote:
    RayBurton72 wrote:
    North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.

    NC GS 14-415, states:
    14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)



    As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
    Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.
    If a store post signage that states "NO FIREAERMS ALLOWED" I would think that it means just that. "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" does not specifiy OC or CC. It means no Firearms, period.

    They may have a hard time enforcing the policy against CC'ers, because that can't see if you are carrying. But, OC'ers are going to be spotted in a heartbeat for obvious reasons.

    Businesses have the right to set rules of entry into their establishments, with exception to descriminatation based on race or anything else people can't change about themselves. They have to post those rules at the entrances. I'm sure you've seen many convenience stores and restaraunts thatare posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". And then there are those fine dining establishments that require a "Coat and Tie". Some campgrounds and other travel accomidations don't allow pets. These are all enforcable.

    I know you don't agree wth this logic, or the legalities of it, but that's life. We can't always have everything OUR WAY. We can't expect others to respect our rights if we don't respect the rights of others.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    RayBurton72 wrote:
    North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.

    NC GS 14-415, states:
    14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)



    As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
    Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.
    If a store post signage that states "NO FIREAERMS ALLOWED" I would think that it means just that. "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" does not specifiy OC or CC. It means no Firearms, period.

    They may have a hard time enforcing the policy against CC'ers, because that can't see if you are carrying. But, OC'ers are going to be spotted in a heartbeat for obvious reasons.

    Businesses have the right to set rules of entry into their establishments, with exception to descriminatation based on race or anything else people can't change about themselves. They have to post those rules at the entrances. I'm sure you've seen many convenience stores and restaraunts thatare posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". And then there are those fine dining establishments that require a "Coat and Tie". Some campgrounds and other travel accomidations don't allow pets. These are all enforcable.

    I know you don't agree wth this logic, or the legalities of it, but that's life. We can't always have everything OUR WAY. We can't expect others to respect our rights if we don't respect the rights of others.

    I have absolutely no problem with property rights, and I DO understand the logic. I have already stated in this thread that a property owner has the right to ask a person to leave for ANY reason.

    Example:

    A store has a sign that says "No Blue Shirts". I walk in wearing a blue shirt. I may be violated the store owner's policy, but I am NOT BREAKING THE LAW. If the store owner called 911 and said "OMG the sign says no blue shirts but this guy is in here wearing a blue shirt!" the next thing the 911 operator would say is "have you asked him to leave?". I am not going to be immediately apprehended by police and arrested for walking past the sign wearing a blue shirt. Why? Because it's not illegal. The ONLY way I could get myself arrested at that point is if I refused to leave, the cops showed up, and I AGAIN refused to leave. Hell, at that point they may just drag you off the property and give you a stern warning.

    Now, for those of you that may not be following, take that example and replace "blue shirt" with "gun".

    I love how you used the example "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Guess what? You're absolutely right! If you walk in without shirt or shoes, you will NOT receive service! It doesn't say "Entering this establishment without wearing shirt and shoes is illegaland punishable under NC G.S. ###-##.#". Granted, the shirt-shoes policy is a health thing that restaurants are legally required to uphold, but that's something complete different.

    Anyway, unless someone can show me a NC statute that says otherwise, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO VIOLATE A POLICY SIGN ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.


    (I am not a lawyer, and afriendly reminder: There IS a spell check on this forum.)

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    All right DreQo, I will explain this as I would to a 6-year-old.

    NC General Statute 14-415 (as cited earlier) states:

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
    NC General Statute 14-415.11(c), (as cited by you) says

    c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun . . . or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
    Since NC GS 14-415.11(c) is a section of NC GS 14-415, Violating 14-415.11(c) is a misdemeanor.

    DreQo: There is a difference between knowing something is, and not having any reason to believe it is not. Please learn the difference before expounding on what the law is or is not.

    And let me know where to send the plate of crow.

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    DreQo wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    DreQo wrote:
    RayBurton72 wrote:
    North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revocation of a concealed carry permit.

    NC GS 14-415, states:
    14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.

    Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)



    As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
    Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.
    If a store post signage that states "NO FIREAERMS ALLOWED" I would think that it means just that. "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" does not specifiy OC or CC. It means no Firearms, period.

    They may have a hard time enforcing the policy against CC'ers, because that can't see if you are carrying. But, OC'ers are going to be spotted in a heartbeat for obvious reasons.

    Businesses have the right to set rules of entry into their establishments, with exception to descriminatation based on race or anything else people can't change about themselves. They have to post those rules at the entrances. I'm sure you've seen many convenience stores and restaraunts thatare posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". And then there are those fine dining establishments that require a "Coat and Tie". Some campgrounds and other travel accomidations don't allow pets. These are all enforcable.

    I know you don't agree wth this logic, or the legalities of it, but that's life. We can't always have everything OUR WAY. We can't expect others to respect our rights if we don't respect the rights of others.

    I have absolutely no problem with property rights, and I DO understand the logic. I have already stated in this thread that a property owner has the right to ask a person to leave for ANY reason.

    Example:

    A store has a sign that says "No Blue Shirts". I walk in wearing a blue shirt. I may be violated the store owner's policy, but I am NOT BREAKING THE LAW. If the store owner called 911 and said "OMG the sign says no blue shirts but this guy is in here wearing a blue shirt!" the next thing the 911 operator would say is "have you asked him to leave?". I am not going to be immediately apprehended by police and arrested for walking past the sign wearing a blue shirt. Why? Because it's not illegal. The ONLY way I could get myself arrested at that point is if I refused to leave, the cops showed up, and I AGAIN refused to leave. Hell, at that point they may just drag you off the property and give you a stern warning.

    Now, for those of you that may not be following, take that example and replace "blue shirt" with "gun".

    I love how you used the example "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Guess what? You're absolutely right! If you walk in without shirt or shoes, you will NOT receive service! It doesn't say "Entering this establishment without wearing shirt and shoes is illegaland punishable under NC G.S. ###-##.#". Granted, the shirt-shoes policy is a health thing that restaurants are legally required to uphold, but that's something complete different.

    Anyway, unless someone can show me a NC statute that says otherwise, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO VIOLATE A POLICY SIGN ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.


    (I am not a lawyer, and afriendly reminder: There IS a spell check on this forum.)
    DreQo, you're over looking one little item here. If you continue to test a stores restrictions, they may slap an Order of Restraint on you, which will forbid you from setting foot on the property, armed or not. If you violate the OR, you're guaranteed a trip to jail. Now, I don't know how NC handles this in regards to carrying firearms, but in Tenn, If we are served with an OR it could result in revocation of our HGP which we have to have to carry in public CC or OC.

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    I'll ignore your immature personal attacks, Ray,but you do need to grow up.

    NC General Statute 14-415.11(c), (as cited by you) says

    c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun . . . or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.


    This statute says that the permit does not authorize you to do something. It does not say it is unlawful. It also specifically refers to a concealed handgun. I can't explain it any more simply than that. The purpose of this law is to protect personal property rights. It leaves the OPTION in the hand of the property owner.

    Edited to add: Even if your incorrect analysis was valid, it would only apply to CONCEALED handguns, so open carry is completely and utterly unaffected by this law or any signs that are posted.

    DreQo, you're over looking one little item here. If you continue to test a stores restrictions, they may slap an Order of Restraint on you, which will forbid you from setting foot on the property, armed or not. If you violate the OR, you're guaranteed a trip to jail. Now, I don't know how NC handles this in regards to carrying firearms, but in Tenn, If we are served with an OR it could result in revocation of our HGP which we have to have to carry in public CC or OC.
    I'm not over looking anything. I have never been asked to leave an establishment where a sign was posted. I have entered properties, while open carrying, on multiple occasions that had various signs posted restricting weapons, WITHOUT INCIDENT. I haven't tested anyone. You're right that if you violate private property policies and refuse to leave, you could be charged with trespass and be legally restrained from entering that property again, under threat of more charges. I have not argued that. This is not what we're discussing.

    You guys really need to think this through. I'm giving you all the information, and breaking it down to make it even easier to understand. I can't do any more than that for you.


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    I am simply dumbfounded by your continued inability to either understand the law, or accept that you simply are not as knowledgeable as you would like to be.

    It is kind of like what Reagan said about liberals - it's not that they don't know anything, it is that so much of what they know simply ain't so.

    It is not incorrect analysis to say that carrying a concealed weapon where it is posted as "No Weapons" is a misdemeanor - it is a fact, as I explained.

    If you cannot accept that the opening section of an article of law, which explains the penalties for violating any of the following sections applies to the following sections, then I cannot help you.

    For everyone else who has been misled by your previous postings, let me further refute them: The reason the law (NC GS 14-415.11) says "not authorized," is because the carrying of a concealed weapon is illegal (NCGS 14-269] with a few exceptions. One of them being that persons who obtain an NC Concealed carry permit are "authorized" to carry a concealed firearm under certain conditions. Hence, the "not authorized" language.

    For a plain language version, one can simply peruse the North Carolina Firearms Laws pamphlet available from the NC Attorney General's Office (Rev'd December 2007)

    Any individual who violates any other standards for
    the carrying of a concealed handgun with a permit is guilty of a Class 2 Misdemeanor. (North Carolina Firearms Laws pg 16)
    Although a person may have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, permittees are not authorized to carry the permitted weapon anywhere they desire. The weapon may not be carried in the following areas: . . .

    7. any premises, except state owned rest areas or stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice, or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-415.11(c)North Carolina Firearms Laws pp 16-17

    As for open carry where posted "No weapons"
    If you were to go into a mall that is posted "No weapons" and police are called, it is possible (likelihood changes based on where the mall is) to be charged with disturbing the peace by failing to abide by the mall's rules in a manner that disturbs the peace.
    If you don't think this can happen, ask the teeny boppers and gang-wannabees who have been charged for using profanity, blaring music or simply "harrasing" other patrons.
    PLEASE NOTE: The disturbing the peace charge does not stem from the activity itself, it stems from doing the activity in violation of posted bans on such activity.

    At a minimum, since we usually agree that most LEO's don't understand the intricacies of firearms laws, you are VERY likely to be arrested. Rightly or wrongly, it could be a very bad day for you.

  22. #22
    State Researcher
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    I've made my points terribly clear. I will be acquiring the analysis and opinion of a professional to verify my knowledge to provide to those here who are not too stubborn to hear it. Obviously this will take time, so please stand by on this issue. In the mean time, please do not stop exercising your rights where ever you legally can, and NEVER be caught unarmed.

  23. #23
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    Dreqo, no need to seek professional help, you are right, the question is not "what does it mean?" the question is, "what does it say?" It says you can't carry on property where signs are posted. If a person wants to have no guns on there property, they can do so, it's their property. This statute is simply clarifying that if someone has posted a sign on their property that says "no guns" than you must honor their rules. If someone posted a sign that said you must carry a firearm while in this store, the aniti's would have to follow that rule as well.

  24. #24
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    Godscreation wrote:
    This statute is simply clarifying that if someone has posted a sign on their property that says "no guns" than you must honor their rules.
    This is the problem with the way you guys are thinking. Their rules are not law, therefore they are not enforceable by law enforcement! There ARE laws regarding trespass, and if a property owner tells you to leave after breaking his rules, you legally must leave. Then, and ONLY THEN does it become a LEGAL issue.


    The reason the law (NC GS 14-415.11) says "not authorized," is because the carrying of a concealed weapon is illegal (NCGS 14-269] with a few exceptions. One of them being that persons who obtain an NC Concealed carry permit are "authorized" to carry a concealed firearm under certain conditions. Hence, the "not authorized" language.
    Ray, stop the personal attacks, they are childish. I'm looking at what you just said above, and I do see what you are saying. This is the main reason why I'm going to get a third opinion, because I've had LEO and lawyers alike tell me in the past that the interpretation that I have provided thus far was correct. This still leaves the fact that open carry is unrelated and therefore legal.

    My opinions and analyses of these laws were not formed by myself in one night. I constantly re-read these laws and have continually had conversations regarding said laws with many different people in order to understand the laws as well as I possibly can. A lot of those people have been professionals in the legal field. This debate we're having now is just more analysis, which should serve to be very beneficial if we can remain civil.

  25. #25
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    You can not carry in places where the owners have post a sign, down load the law and read for yourself. I will not go to these places, I can only hope you won't either!



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