SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP
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Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP wrote:Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
Lets first remember that no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable. Of course, if they ask you to leave when they see your gun, and you don't, then you're trespassing.
SPRINGFIELD_45_ACP wrote:Does Anybody honor "NO WEAPON" signs in too many malls to name & others places that post???
Lets first remember that no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable. Of course, if they ask you to leave when they see your gun, and you don't, then you're trespassing.
Anyway with that said, I do not go unarmed where I don't have to, so I guess my answer would be no. I often conceal when entering such areas in order to avoid confrontation, but that's about it. I've even open carried in places with "No Concealed Weapons" signs, without incident.
Please define "if legally posted."The signage, if legally posted,IS enforcable.
Please define "if legally posted."The signage, if legally posted,IS enforcable.
To me, "legally posted" means it's backed up by an ordinance or statute.
"No hunting/fishing/swimming" is usually backed up by an ordiance or statute.
DreQo: "no weapons signs in NC are strictly a statement of private property policy, and are NOT legally enforceable"
Seriously? I was trying to look that up but have been unsuccessful. (not being a lawyer I talk in plain English)
Can you post some reference?
-R
Read the boldfaced portions as one sentence for easy reading. This general statute clearly states that a concealed handgun permits does not authorize a person to carry where a sign has been posted. It DOES NOT say that the person is unauthorized to do so, nor does it say that theact is unlawful. In fact, there is NO statute that says carrying where a sign is posted is unlawful. So, without a law saying it's illegal, it is of course legal.§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.
(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.
(c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.
I'm sorry Task Force 16, but the laws are a little different here in NC, as is to be expected.
I'm sorry Task Force 16, but the laws are a little different here in NC, as is to be expected.
NO apology necessary. I figured the laws might differ, that's why I said one should check their own state statutes.
I noticed that NC Statutes do not define "display" of firearms. And that NC state law is not preemptive of local statutes. It appears, unless I misunderstand, that counties or cities could adopt ordinances that prohibit OC, siting that OC is
"displaying" a firearm. Have you had much problem with that in NC.
14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.
NC GS 14-415, states:
14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
RayBurton72 wrote:Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.
NC GS 14-415, states:
14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
DreQo wrote:RayBurton72 wrote:Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revokation of a concealed carry permit.
NC GS 14-415, states:
14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
If a store post signage that states "NO FIREAERMS ALLOWED" I would think that it means just that. "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" does not specifiy OC or CC. It means no Firearms, period.
They may have a hard time enforcing the policy against CC'ers, because that can't see if you are carrying. But, OC'ers are going to be spotted in a heartbeat for obvious reasons.
Businesses have the right to set rules of entry into their establishments, with exception to descriminatation based on race or anything else people can't change about themselves. They have to post those rules at the entrances. I'm sure you've seen many convenience stores and restaraunts thatare posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". And then there are those fine dining establishments that require a "Coat and Tie". Some campgrounds and other travel accomidations don't allow pets. These are all enforcable.
I know you don't agree wth this logic, or the legalities of it, but that's life. We can't always have everything OUR WAY. We can't expect others to respect our rights if we don't respect the rights of others.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun . . . or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
DreQo, you're over looking one little item here. If you continue to test a stores restrictions, they may slap an Order of Restraint on you, which will forbid you from setting foot on the property, armed or not. If you violate the OR, you're guaranteed a trip to jail. Now, I don't know how NC handles this in regards to carrying firearms, but in Tenn, If we are served with an OR it could result in revocation of our HGP which we have to have to carry in public CC or OC.Task Force 16 wrote:DreQo wrote:RayBurton72 wrote:Show me the statute that says "it shall be unlawful" to carry a firearm past a "no weapons" sign. The ONLY statute that mentions such a sign is that one I already quoted,and itsays nothing about being unlawful. On top of that, it refers specifically to concealed handguns, so even if it DID say it was unlawful, open carry of a handgun, and lawful carry of any other weapon, would STILL be legal.North Carolina is NOT a trespass state... No weapons signs ARE legally enforceable and failure to honor them is a misdemeanor... (which can lead to the revocation of a concealed carry permit.
NC GS 14-415, states:
14‑415. Violation made misdemeanor.
Any person violating any of the provisions of this Article, except as otherwise specified in said Article, shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor, except that it is a Class 1 misdemeanor if the exhibition is indoors. (1947, c. 210, s. 6; 1969, c. 1224, s. 3; 1993, c. 539, s. 288; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2003‑298, s. 3.)
As for requirements for the sign, simply that they are readily visible and posted on EVERY entrance.
If a store post signage that states "NO FIREAERMS ALLOWED" I would think that it means just that. "NO FIREARMS ALLOWED" does not specifiy OC or CC. It means no Firearms, period.
They may have a hard time enforcing the policy against CC'ers, because that can't see if you are carrying. But, OC'ers are going to be spotted in a heartbeat for obvious reasons.
Businesses have the right to set rules of entry into their establishments, with exception to descriminatation based on race or anything else people can't change about themselves. They have to post those rules at the entrances. I'm sure you've seen many convenience stores and restaraunts thatare posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service". And then there are those fine dining establishments that require a "Coat and Tie". Some campgrounds and other travel accomidations don't allow pets. These are all enforcable.
I know you don't agree wth this logic, or the legalities of it, but that's life. We can't always have everything OUR WAY. We can't expect others to respect our rights if we don't respect the rights of others.
I have absolutely no problem with property rights, and I DO understand the logic. I have already stated in this thread that a property owner has the right to ask a person to leave for ANY reason.
Example:
A store has a sign that says "No Blue Shirts". I walk in wearing a blue shirt. I may be violated the store owner's policy, but I am NOT BREAKING THE LAW. If the store owner called 911 and said "OMG the sign says no blue shirts but this guy is in here wearing a blue shirt!" the next thing the 911 operator would say is "have you asked him to leave?". I am not going to be immediately apprehended by police and arrested for walking past the sign wearing a blue shirt. Why? Because it's not illegal. The ONLY way I could get myself arrested at that point is if I refused to leave, the cops showed up, and I AGAIN refused to leave. Hell, at that point they may just drag you off the property and give you a stern warning.
Now, for those of you that may not be following, take that example and replace "blue shirt" with "gun".
I love how you used the example "no shirt, no shoes, no service". Guess what? You're absolutely right! If you walk in without shirt or shoes, you will NOT receive service! It doesn't say "Entering this establishment without wearing shirt and shoes is illegaland punishable under NC G.S. ###-##.#". Granted, the shirt-shoes policy is a health thing that restaurants are legally required to uphold, but that's something complete different.
Anyway, unless someone can show me a NC statute that says otherwise, IT IS NOT ILLEGAL TO VIOLATE A POLICY SIGN ON PRIVATE PROPERTY.
(I am not a lawyer, and afriendly reminder: There IS a spell check on this forum.)
c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun . . . or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
DreQo, you're over looking one little item here. If you continue to test a stores restrictions, they may slap an Order of Restraint on you, which will forbid you from setting foot on the property, armed or not. If you violate the OR, you're guaranteed a trip to jail. Now, I don't know how NC handles this in regards to carrying firearms, but in Tenn, If we are served with an OR it could result in revocation of our HGP which we have to have to carry in public CC or OC.