Western Upper Michigan OC Opportunity

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Dear OCDO Members,

Rob Washeleski and myself recently met up together, OCing of course, and laid out a course with our local goals as far as visiblitiy in the community for OC events. Our first opportunity as we near the winter heavy snowfall months is a little late in the year, but we wish to get started as soon as possible.

This years Parade of Nations begins at Hancock Middle School and goes through Hancock and the Houghton waterfront area. Rob, myself, and anyone else interested will rally at the parking lot of the Ramada and Waterfront Restaurant at 10:15 AM on Saturday, September 20th, 2008.

There is minimal Parade Of Nations current 2008 information on the web, but a flier can be found at http://www.paradeofnations.mtu.edu/and a simple google search will bring a pile of pictures of past years events.

After introductions we can walk up the hill to watch the parade from the Houghton-Hancock Lift Bridge. There are supposed to be 80 differient countries represented and should be great to see. The MTU Pep Band will also be marching and is always a treat.

After the parade we can have a nice walk across the bridge ourselves and hitJoey's Onlyfor lunch. I believe this will be a great opportunity for some of us to get together, meet, and get to know one another so we can begin planning other outtings. Feel free to bring the family, as it is a family event. The event is coming up quickly on the 20th, so please let me know (email or forum PM)if you plan on attending so we can get a basic count. I hope to see many of you there!

As we are not intending on this as a political activism meet, we will not be handing out literature, but for anyone approaching us with questions, I will be sure to have information on hand to deliver, as well as a local website I am working on with information as it pertains to Michigan only as well as local events and contact information.

There were a few looks while we were at lunch in Houghton at Pizza Hut, but it was a non-event. In speaking with the local police officers we should expect no response, although if there is a phone call they will respond but are seemingly all aware of the laws of the land and respect them, and most agree with them as well.

If you are in need of transportation or just with to ride share please let me know, as well as your location, so arraingments can be made. If you are unsure of yourself OCing and wish for some private advice, feel free to email me or use the forums PM feature. If you are not a CPL holder and need transportation advice or assistance, also let me know. We plan for a safe and non-eventful day out on the town in full view of the public's eye for all to see how safe and uneventful armed citizens can be!

Jason E. Reese

jason@upopencarry.org


edited to change lunch location to Joey's only.

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Not sure I'll be able to make on the 20th. Supposed to be taking the wife to Wisconsin Dells for our 26th anniversary.....and since I'd really like to do another 26 with her.....I'd better stick to our plans.

Sorry about that......would love to hear how it goes.

Maybe next time I can make it up there.

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Event approaching, and I will be happy with two people total, but it seems we are atthree confirmed and one possible. It is a remote area, and 3 have already expressed thier regrets, so no big deal. No matter the crowd, we have something in common and will find plenty to talk about as we all get to know one another.



Confirmed:

northofnowhere, Rob Washeleski, Dan Hamilton.

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northofnowhere wrote:

Event approaching, and I will be happy with two people total, but it seems we are atthree confirmed and one possible. It is a remote area, and 3 have already expressed thier regrets, so no big deal. No matter the crowd, we have something in common and will find plenty to talk about as we all get to know one another.



Confirmed:

northofnowhere, Rob Washeleski, Dan Hamilton.

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Well, a shooting by a Houghton Deputy today. Had to kill the perpetrator and ended up wounded himself.

I'm sure everyone will be uneasy and on alert....so be careful up there.....maybe let them know in advance about the event to they know what to expect. Just a thought....

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In our area this kind of story is pretty big and a very big deal. Isee many of the deputy's daily and discuss open carry and concealed carry with them in great detail. Considering many residents nerves will be on end because of the act there was a MWG call and a deputy had to shoot the man down, I will be sure the respective agency's are aware we will be OCing at the parade in anticipation of any MWG calls.

I wasn't planning on making this call before today, as we will be a small group, but with today's events yes, I will ensure they are notified, despite our small number. A group worries me less then a single individual, and I am just waiting to get a MWG call on me since I open carry daily in my town and Calumet, where the shooting took place. Luckily most business owners know me well.

northofnowhere

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Houghton Co. deputy wounded, another person killed



9/17/2008, 11:06 p.m. EDT
The Associated Press


OSCEOLA TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) — Authorities say a Houghton County sheriff's deputy has been wounded and another person killed in a shooting.

WLUC-TV in Marquette reports the shooting happened Wednesday afternoon in Osceola Township and the deputy was expected to recover.

Sheriff Brian McLean says the deputy arrived a a home in response to a reported dispute between neighbors, and when a person emerged with a weapon the deputy opened fire.

Link: http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/michigan/index.ssf?/base/news-57/1221707652324430.xml&storylist=newsmichigan

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I wish I could win a million or two in the lotto so I wouldn't have to work anymore. That way I could attend all kinds of OC events instead of working.......

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Looks as though we do have 4 at least, and I look forward to seeing everyone in a few hours. Should be a fun few hours of getting to know one another. If anyone has any concerns of questions, feel free to give me an email, I check it pretty much instantly all day when home. Gotta love technology (most days). You can also call, i am in the local most current few phone books.

jason e. reese

aka northofnowhere

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3 Strong, dan was unable to make it. Received what I would call one neutral response, one GREAT responce from one Micheal, who was attendingthe parade with his presumably wife and child, and also a great response from our waitress. The Police were courteous enough to come and chat it up with us. They were very civil, although very forthcoming regarding thier disagreement with our open carrying and scaring all the children. I did take the liberty to record our two seperate conversations and will get rid of the trucks and background noise (as soon as I teach myself how to of course) and share them.

First was thier response I believe to a call or coment on our weapons by the Houghton Police Chief, and one other officer. We chatted while sitting on the city lawn waiting for the parade for a shorttwo minutes and 30 seconds and it wasn't all bad. The second time was on our walk to lunch where the Chief alone stopped by, presumably after seeking legal advice from someone of somewhere, and it wasn't all that bad, albeit he still seemed misinformed and felt that our behavior that day would mean there would be forthcoming laws set in place restricting our carrying, which was quite comical and I did offer literature which he very politely refused, but did say he would look into further.

All in all I disagree with thier topic of conversation, but the Houghton boys in blue were VERY nice and polite throughout both conversations, and it was quite nice to discuss ina semi official way thier stance, as they do believe in CPL laws, although they did not know it was a CPL license, probaly assumed it was a CCW license. Still, very polite, good talkings.

I will try to clean the recording up and at least play it full blast for myself and attempt a transcript of the event.

BTW, the Micheal fellow's wife found this post while searching information on the Parade itself, and then he read through our topics and was greatly interested. He did request some literature, after our talk with the police, and was given it. We at least reached one person, which carries a great deal of meaning to me personally. It was also quite exciting watching the parade and seeing where so many people are from who I see on the streets and deal with daily. Amazing how many countries are represented in our two local university's.

I do work midnights, and have not slept in a day or so, so I must get to bed and will fill in the gaps and transcripts after a couple days when I get a day off to sleep today's missed hours off, lol.

-northofnowhere

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I felt the need to post a little more info on the morning.

Pre-Parade
We met in a parking lot near the parade route at a quarter after 10 this morning. We then walked across the bridge between Houghton and Hancock, where a few people noticed that we were carrying (Rob - 1911 in CQC, Nathan - Glock 19 in leather holster with thumb break, Jason - Patriot 9mm in leather holster with thumb break). As a side note, we looked presentable. Nathan and I were wearing polo shirts tucked-out and Jason had his American flag T-shirt tucked in. Neat and orderly. In our walk across the bridge we passed 2 Hancock police officers (who didn't notice us) and 2 Houghton police officers (who didn't notice us).

We sat down in the small public park at the end of downtown Houghton to watch the parade and waited for about half an hour for the parade to get to us. About 15 minutes after we sat down a woman asked Jason why we were carrying guns. He explained that they were for protection, and that it is legal to openly carry a handgun in MI. She kind of asked "why?" again, but was not worked up or anything. Just surprised that it was legal, and also surprised that anyone would do it, legality aside.

Encounter 1
Then the patrol SUV pulled up with an officer inside talking into his radio while staring at us. When he parked the SUV about 20 ft up the street and walked over to the other cops standing there, we knew what was coming next. Two of the officers walked over to us and started asking questions/lecturing us (transcript to follow when Jason has time). First off they made a feeble attempt at the whole license/registration thing. We told them we were not required to provide it, or a driver's license for that matter. They, of course, disagreed. We didn't want to make a fuss as the parade was just starting, so the 2 of us that had our green cards on us provided them, and Jason gave them his CPL. Oddly enough, when he offered his CPL they both said, "CPL?" which is sad. After looking them over as if they had never seen one before, they looked at each other and handed them back. That is when the short lecture began.

To summarize, they said that they had received a complaint and came to check it out. I asked if they notified the complainant that OC is legal in MI, and he quickly said yes he did (I kind of doubt that now after the second encounter). The one officer seemed to be up on the laws, while the more vocal one did not. They said "what about scaring the kids" several times, said that it was irresponsible of us, that we were trying to make a point and that this was not the place to do it, etc. This whole time we are sitting in a group of people that is made up of at least 50% kids, most of whom didn't even take notice of us. I guess people throwing candy would have kept my attention if I was 5 again. We told them that we OC all over the place, and have had no problems (100% true for all 3 of us, including private businesses and restaurants). The one that seemed to know the law then said something to the effect of "obviously we aren't going to do anything about it, but"... (see above for main lecture points). At that point they walked back to the SUV.

Observations on Encounter 1
There were about 5 cops within 50 feet of where we were, and they all had a pow-wow before sending two over. We appreciated that. There was no need for a scene, and they didn’t approach us with the intent to make one. They were professional and polite, as were we. Always be professional and polite while you OC, especially when dealing with the police. It makes things much nicer for all involved. The one cop that knew the law pretty much kept the other one from doing anything stupid, like trying to charge us with something or trying to make us leave. We let them both editorialize on the law, and said that their opinions and ours were not the same and left it at that. We thought that this would be the last of it.

Parade
I told Jason and Nathan that I thought we should write a letter to the chief of police about the incident and specifically ask him to tell his officers to refrain from legal editorial on the issue. A few minutes after the police left, a gentleman sitting behind us with his wife and small daughter came over and talked to us. He said that he was glad we were out here and asked for some more information, which we had on hand. Interestingly enough, his wife was doing an online search for Parade of Nations and somehow found the link to our thread and showed it to him. He then read some of the info we have here and said he thought what we were doing was great. The rest of the parade went on without incident.

Post Parade
After the parade, we stood up and started walking down Sheldon St. (the main drag through downtown Houghton) towards Joey’s Only Seafood. We made it about a block before the officer that seemed to not know the law pulled up in a city vehicle and said he wanted to talk to us again.

Encounter 2
I’m not gonna lie, this one was weird. He started off by saying that he supports second amendment rights, but he doesn’t think that OC is a good idea because it upsets people. He also claimed that he had received more complaints about us, which I highly doubt. Fair enough, I thought. He then said that there were amendments to the constitution that he didn’t support, and that he would get rid of them if he could. Barely had my eyebrow risen when he said that he thinks that there should be no fifth amendment. He then started rambling a little, and I am not sure what his point was. Then he said that because of what we did today, policies are going to change. I assumed he meant how the police respond to such events, but I wasn’t sure. He then made a reference to Tucson, AR and how things were there. I honestly don’t know what he meant by that, or why he said it. He then alluded to some sort of law or ordinance being put in place because we decided to OC somewhere we shouldn’t have, even thought it is legal. I didn’t even try to follow that argument. I said something to the effect that no, it won’t change, due to pre-emption in MI. He looked confused, so Jason explained what it meant. Jason then offered him some literature on the relevant laws, but he politely declined and said that he would look into it. Around this time I became aware that his badge said “Chief” on it and saw that his name tag said Donnelly. The un-informed cop from the first encounter was actually the Houghton chief of police! He was concerned that we were going to go down to the food festival, and we told him we were not going. He then got in his car and left, without much of an end to the conversation.

Observation on Encounter 2
The chief here seems to be very much against OC. The complaint letter I mentioned before will now be directed to the county prosecutor instead of the chief. We all got an odd vibe from him, and made sure that we didn’t even jay-walk, even though everyone else was doing it. We didn’t want to give him any reason to do something rash. I have a feeling things will get a bit rocky here for a little while for the few that OC in the Copper Country. The chief was still polite to us and somewhat professional the second time, but you could see he was not happy with us and really wanted us to never do this again.

Lunch
At Joey’s, our waitress noticed right away that one of us was carrying, but said nothing. When we were almost done with our delicious lunch, see came by and said, “Oh, all three of you have guns”. Jason said something to the effect of “yeah, is that a problem?” in a very polite way. She said “oh no, I wouldn’t want to live anywhere that you couldn’t have them.” She said that when she was a volunteer in the projects in Chicago she kept a cut-down baseball bat for protection, and that she wished that she could have a gun for self-defense. She then explained that she was not a citizen (Scottish) and couldn’t own one. A very positive response, in my opinion.

Conclusion
After lunch we walked back across the bridge to our cars and said good-bye. A successful event in my opinion, even if we only reached a few people. Also, congrats to Nathan who OC’d for his first time with us today. Hope the read wasn’t too boring.

-Rob

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Sounds like everything went well for the most part. Wish I could have joined you, but I've been working so much trying to catch up on bills. Perhaps the next one.

I can't wait to hear the audio. Will it be on UPOpenCarry?

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K, I played with audio cnoise reducers and laughed alot and have had a few headaches. Here are copies of the two encounters. Gotta turn it up a bit, but most of it is audible. You do clearly get to hear the chief of Houghton Police clearly say that you must carry a registration with you when carrying a weapon. There are three of us, two of them, but you don't get to hear our third, Nathan at all. The recorder was in my carpenter pants small right leg pocket, and Nathan was on my left. The chief was on my left front as well. If you wish to listen in feel free though.

http://upopencarry.org/resources/OC_1st_encounter_only_origonal.wav

http://upopencarry.org/resources/OC_second_only_encounter_origonal.wav

These are unedited and only cropped. if someone has experience in removing traffic/background noises that are not hisses and consistant, feel free to try, lol. I do intend on getting a transcript as well, probly a couple days.

north

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northofnowhere wrote:

K, I played with audio cnoise reducers and laughed alot and have had a few headaches. Here are copies of the two encounters. Gotta turn it up a bit, but most of it is audible. You do clearly get to hear the chief of Houghton Police clearly say that you must carry a registration with you when carrying a weapon. There are three of us, two of them, but you don't get to hear our third, Nathan at all. The recorder was in my carpenter pants small right leg pocket, and Nathan was on my left. The chief was on my left front as well. If you wish to listen in feel free though.

http://upopencarry.org/resources/OC_1st_encounter_only_origonal.wav

http://upopencarry.org/resources/OC_second_only_encounter_origonal.wav

These are unedited and only cropped. if someone has experience in removing traffic/background noises that are not hisses and consistant, feel free to try, lol. I do intend on getting a transcript as well, probly a couple days.

north

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My take on this? No complaints were filed. Just another PD who thought they knew what the laws of this state are, and were, again, DEAD WRONG!

Way to go fellas! Keep up the good fight.

Edit: I dont think those need any enhancement. The only thing is,next time keep the recorder more upfront in the situation by using a clip on mic or even hold it in your hand, as it is legal to record public conversations.

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.... I'd get rid of the 5th Amendment.

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Those are the words of a repulsive, repugnant individual.

DISGUSTING.

As against it as he was, I wonder if he truly was ignorant about OC being legal. It's obvious that his intent is to get a law passed prohibiting it. I noticed on the recording that someone mentioned the dismissial of Chris Fetters in Grand Haven. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that either the Chief, or someone higher up in the chain, was aware of it (and possibly Hastings).

I also wouldn't be surprise to learn that the person who complained was the woman who asked you "why".

Good for you guys, in getting the word out.

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.... I'd get rid of the 5th Amendment.

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Perhaps he meant the 4th. If he was a prosecutor I could see him hating the 5th, but as a LEO I would think he would deal more with the 4th.