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Thread: Disarmed, hassled by SPD

  1. #1
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    Real quick, I'm using a borrowed machine...

    I went to West Seattle today to stop at Capitol Loans to pick up a gunbroker auction item. (The description was wrong so I didn't buy it but that is another story.) I was OCing my Security Six and had my Kel Tec P32 in a shirt pocket.

    So I was in the store and chatting with the staff there when two SPD walk in...

    One officer told me to put my hands on the counter and proceeded to disarm me. Now the shop staff had NO problems with my OC. Someone had called the cops seeing me walking to the store.

    The cop told me he didn't like standing next to someone and talking to them if they had a gun. He unloaded my revolver and looked kinda surprised at the .357 hollowpoints in it. I told him that I had a kel tec in my shirt pocket and he took that and emptied it as well.

    I asked if I was being detained and they cops went out of their way to try and assure me that I wasn't going to be arrested, etc... We had some back and forth for a minute (I'll post more later) and despite repeatedly asking if I was being detained and being told I wasn't, I did not feel free to go.

    The officer took down my ID info, and returned my guns to me unloaded. I told them I wanted them returned to me in the state they found them, and they refused. I got lectured about the "problems" of OC and was told they knew it was legal, etc...

    The shop staff let me reload my guns in the store after the officers left.

    Again I'll post more details tomorrow.

    I would like to encourage anyone in the Seattle area who is looking for a gun to stop by Capitol Loans near Fauntleroy and Alaska in West Seattle, the gentlemen there were very nice and reasonable people.





  2. #2
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    Wow man that sucks. Really, do they have a right to disarm you if you are not doing anything illegal?

    Also this sounds like they are giving you their own personal views on OC.



  3. #3
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Looks like Randy's gunna be busy...
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  4. #4
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    If someone had 'cause to alarm', then the cops had the right to disarm you. Because WA law is dumb.

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    Pullmanite wrote:
    If someone had 'cause to alarm', then the cops had the right to disarm you. Because WA law is dumb.
    Wrong. A holstered weapon does not qualify under RCW 9.41.270. Also you can't just take part of what the law says but all of it.

    "..........in a manner, under circumstances, and at a time and place that either manifests an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons."


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    Pullmanite wrote:
    If someone had 'cause to alarm', then the cops had the right to disarm you. Because WA law is dumb.
    Welcome to the forum, but take some time to read up on the laws. Your view is incorrect and part of the problem with how LEO are reacting to OCers

  7. #7
    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    And to tag onto Bear's post, cause and warrant are frequently used interchangeably when they shouldn't. They have different meanings and this is all important.

  8. #8
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    geez, didn't you know you can't go carrying a gun into a gun shop!

  9. #9
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    SUE SUE SUE!!!! When you were told to perform those functions that allowed the police to disarm you YOU WERE SEIZED! your freedom to continue on your way was denied by actions of the government. They can say anything they want, no violation of law was observed. Thus the mere presence of firearm does not mean a violation of law is taking place. I am a cop and I am tired of the B.S. that is going on with cops using intimidation tactics to keep use from enjoying our rights. The 2 cops need to be sued individually as well as thier supervisors and chief. Using the words "Failure to Train, Failure to Supervise, and Deliberent Indifference"

    I am not sue crazy, but I have learned over the 27+ years that they only learn when some one take money out of thier pocket. Then they get it.

  10. #10
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    I think the best course of action during this illegal seizure would have been to keep pushing the detainment question.

    "Am I being detained?"

    "No"

    "Than return my property to me now, and leave me alone, this interaction is over."

  11. #11
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    You don't have to question,"Am I being detained?" the force used by the government. Is in itself the answer.

  12. #12
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    In a situation like this one do you have to comply with an officer's order to disarm if he states that you are not being detained?

  13. #13
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    From the words used in the report as writtenby the starter of this thread, There was no time not to comply, as everything was directed as "Command Control" or "Official Tone of Voice" Thus being SIEZED!!!

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    Rattrapper wrote:
    From the words used in the report as writtenby the starter of this thread, There was no time not to comply, as everything was directed as "Command Control" or "Official Tone of Voice" Thus being SIEZED!!!
    FYI, this is not the first time for sv_libertarian to have been hasseled and disarmedby cops. Twice in Olympia and when he and his lawyer, Randy Loun were thru with them there was a training bulletin on the subject and no more harrassment of OCers.

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    Then I hope he takes them to the Financial Woodshed :celebrate

  16. #16
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    First, SV glad you are OK!

    The cop told me he didn't like standing next to someone and talking to them if they had a gun.

    Wow, this cop needs serious counseling. Why would he even get into LE if this is his attitude? Very Sad.

    Now about SV's rights......

  17. #17
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    The cop told me he didn't like standing next to someone and talking to them if they had a gun.

    He must have a lonely Job, yah know since his Boss/s and coworkers have guns :P

  18. #18
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    Wheelgunner wrote:
    First, SV glad you are OK!

    The cop told me he didn't like standing next to someone and talking to them if they had a gun.

    Wow, this cop needs serious counseling. Why would he even get into LE if this is his attitude? Very Sad.

    Now about SV's rights......
    Sure seems to convey "them vs. Us" doesn't it? True, Very sad.

  19. #19
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    Don't forget to FOIA the 911 tapes if Washington allows that. The officer doesn't have to give you the reason for the stop and could well have been lying. However, the assurances that you wouldn't be arrested seem possibly suspicious, depending on the timing of when it was said.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  20. #20
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    I kept asking if I was being detained, which led to the dodgy statements about not going to be arrested, etc...

  21. #21
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    Rattrapper wrote:
    You don't have to question,"Am I being detained?" the force used by the government. Is in itself the answer.
    I'm with Rattrapper on this one.

    The command to put your hands on the counter said it all.

    Also,I don't see howpersonal property can be seized off a person's body without the person himself being seized. "Give us your gun; but you're free to go any time." Just try to leave with your personal property (gun) and see if the verbal seizure doesn't turn into physical restraint while they remove the gun.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  22. #22
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    I asked the question just to see the answer. As I suspected, they squirmed.

  23. #23
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    I asked the question just to see the answer. As I suspected, they squirmed.
    I understand.

    I was speaking more to the self-evidentnature of the encounter. I'll go back and highlight that part ofRat-sstatement in my quote.


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  24. #24
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    sv_libertarian wrote:
    I kept asking if I was being detained, which led to the dodgy statements about not going to be arrested, etc...

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
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    If a police officer wants to disarm an OC'er, what are the legal 'steps' or 'limits' to the process? If the OC'er is minding his own business(like shopping or something), when can the officer legally disarm an OC'er? When the OC'er is under arrest? When the OC'er is 'being detained'?

    Basically, if a police officer walks up and demands you turn over your pistol, what response could a person reasonably give? Such as "My pistol is safe in it's holster and I have made no actions to warrent alarm. So, unless I am under arrest my pistol will stay right were it is."

    Something to draw the legal line, so that if the police officer wants to cross the line and break the law, then he is aware that he clearly broke the law, but give him the chance to back down.

    Any ideas?

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