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Disarmed, hassled by SPD

C

Citizen

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Rattrapper wrote:
You don't have to question,"Am I being detained?" the force used by the government. Is in itself the answer.
Click to expand...
I'm with Rattrapper on this one.

The command to put your hands on the counter said it all.

Also,I don't see howpersonal property can be seized off a person's body without the person himself being seized. "Give us your gun; but you're free to go any time." Just try to leave with your personal property (gun) and see if the verbal seizure doesn't turn into physical restraint while they remove the gun.
 
C

Citizen

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sv_libertarian wrote:
I asked the question just to see the answer. As I suspected, they squirmed.
Click to expand...

I understand.

I was speaking more to the self-evidentnature of the encounter. I'll go back and highlight that part ofRat-sstatement in my quote.
 
Q

quentusrex

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If a police officer wants to disarm an OC'er, what are the legal 'steps' or 'limits' to the process? If the OC'er is minding his own business(like shopping or something), when can the officer legally disarm an OC'er? When the OC'er is under arrest? When the OC'er is 'being detained'?

Basically, if a police officer walks up and demands you turn over your pistol, what response could a person reasonably give? Such as "My pistol is safe in it's holster and I have made no actions to warrent alarm. So, unless I am under arrest my pistol will stay right were it is."

Something to draw the legal line, so that if the police officer wants to cross the line and break the law, then he is aware that he clearly broke the law, but give him the chance to back down.

Any ideas?
 
B

Bear 45/70

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quentusrex wrote:
If a police officer wants to disarm an OC'er, what are the legal 'steps' or 'limits' to the process? If the OC'er is minding his own business(like shopping or something), when can the officer legally disarm an OC'er? When the OC'er is under arrest? When the OC'er is 'being detained'?

Basically, if a police officer walks up and demands you turn over your pistol, what response could a person reasonably give? Such as "My pistol is safe in it's holster and I have made no actions to warrent alarm. So, unless I am under arrest my pistol will stay right were it is."

Something to draw the legal line, so that if the police officer wants to cross the line and break the law, then he is aware that he clearly broke the law, but give him the chance to back down.

Any ideas?
Click to expand...
In Washington State a cop can't even Terry Stop you for Ocing, much less disarm you. There is nothing you can say or do, on the street that will stop the cop from taking your gun. However in the final end of the case he will lose along with his department. You will end up with a payday.
 
Q

quentusrex

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Thanks for the response Bear. Are there any recent examples that are similar to this situation? OC'er minding his own business, doing nothing to warrent alarm, then being disarmed by an officer(and not arrested)?

What has happened so far after these situations? Is the act of disarming a citizen worthy of legal action? I'm not talking about theory, but in practice? What would the likely outcome be? Just a letter in the offending officers file, and maybe a training bulletin?
 
S

sv_libertarian

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Olympia, WA, ,
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quentusrex wrote:
Thanks for the response Bear. Are there any recent examples that are similar to this situation? OC'er minding his own business, doing nothing to warrent alarm, then being disarmed by an officer(and not arrested)?

What has happened so far after these situations? Is the act of disarming a citizen worthy of legal action? I'm not talking about theory, but in practice? What would the likely outcome be? Just a letter in the offending officers file, and maybe a training bulletin?
Click to expand...
There are gobs of them. It's happened to me twice in Olympia... This is the third time I have been "not detained" and disarmed...
 
S

sv_libertarian

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quentusrex wrote:
Now, what is the legal recourse? And what disincentive is there for the department to ensure that the officers don't continue crossing the line?
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Well in Olympia I got the services of a lawyer which finally cleared things up, that and Oly was also in the process of issuing a training directive on the matter, but I know the lawyer helped A LOT.

I'm consulting with him about my Seattle stop.

Google "Randy Loun" and you will see his phone number under "Loun and Tyner" in Bremerton. Give him a call and go from there.
 
Q

quentusrex

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I've got Randy's phone number in my cell phone. I was just curious about real world outcomes. I guess that's something that should be discussed with a lawyer.
 
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