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Thread: Anyone gonna OC at McCain/Palin Rally 9/10 in Fairfax?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    I have to work.. I would have liked to have gone.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    I had planned on going until I found out the time. I have class just around that time. :?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    I may go, but I'm figuring that the SS won't let firearms in the secured perimeter, also the Catholic school and public school in the same block could present roadblocks to lawful OC as well.

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    Campaign Veteran Nelson_Muntz's Avatar
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    I'll be there, but not OC'ing. I expect checkpoints, and I really want to attend.

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    I may go, but I'm figuring that the SS won't let firearms in the secured perimeter, also the Catholic school and public school in the same block could present roadblocks to lawful OC as well.
    That is what I was thinking. If the Secret Service is involved, there is probably a security zone declared.

    They should ask you to leave before granting access to the security zone. I do not see why they would treat a gun different than a knife. They are both prohibited in these zones. They do not arrest you for a knife - just tell you that you cannot enter with it.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    I may go, but I'm figuring that the SS won't let firearms in the secured perimeter, also the Catholic school and public school in the same block could present roadblocks to lawful OC as well.
    Outside of the secured perimeter and on the public sidewalk or street they wouldn't.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Unless for crowd control purposes they got routed through those places.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    longwatch wrote:
    Unless for crowd control purposes they got routed through those places.
    That's kind of like getting pushed off the sidewalk into the street by a LEO, then being arrested for jay walking isn't it?

    Ya I know, I'm just being argumentative - but that's the way I am.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    HEY, FELLAS!

    This isa little bit dangerous, isn't it? I mean the thread title, "OC at...Rally."

    Somewhere in the Mt. Jack arrrest threads somebody cited afederal statute regarding weapons near a person being protected by the Secret Service. I couldn't find it in the current stickied threads; but I know I'm not imagining this.

    We need to make it very, very plain for new OCers and people who may not have followed the Mt. Jack threads that it is not a good idea to OC at the rally. Near the rally, outside the secure area, maybe--depending on the statute.

    This is not a situation where you want to screw up on your law. Norwould you want a new OCer to have a mistaken idea and try to OCat the rally.

    Ed, please be careful with your thread titles/sub-titles.




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Ed, please be careful with your thread titles/sub-titles.
    point taken
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Does anybody know the extent of the secret security zone?
    Will it be 100 yd - 1000 yd - 1 mile or will the entire county/state be disarmed during the rally?
    Go Sarah & that ol' guy too!

    Ah oh, bet I'm on their watch list........again.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Man OC'ing at Obama rally handing out gun rights leaflets arrested and questioned.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum66/15561-1.html
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Citizen wrote:
    HEY, FELLAS!

    This isa little bit dangerous, isn't it? I mean the thread title, "OC at...Rally."

    Somewhere in the Mt. Jack arrrest threads somebody cited afederal statute regarding weapons near a person being protected by the Secret Service. I couldn't find it in the current stickied threads; but I know I'm not imagining this.

    We need to make it very, very plain for new OCers and people who may not have followed the Mt. Jack threads that it is not a good idea to OC at the rally. Near the rally, outside the secure area, maybe--depending on the statute.

    This is not a situation where you want to screw up on your law. Norwould you want a new OCer to have a mistaken idea and try to OCat the rally.

    Ed, please be careful with your thread titles/sub-titles.



    I think the title should be changed, as it appears to ask whether or not anyone is planning on committing a crime. Who would you ask that? Why would anyone on this board do such a thing?

    One of the reasons the open carry movement has been so successful is that we know the law so well - sometimes better than law enforcement. This has benefited us time and again. I follow the law and I expect others to do the same. Regardless of what you think of the law, it has been demonstrated on this board multiple times that federal law allows the Secret Service to maintain a gun free perimiter around a few specific people under very specific circumstances - and that certainly includes both John McCain and Sarah Palin at this particular time.If you disagree with the law, you should advocate for the law to be changed or start a philosophical argument as to whether or not current law is wise or productive (or not). As this site has grown, we have started attracting many new members. Let's be very clear about the state of federallaw - open carrytoo close toJohn McCain right now = get arrested.

    As far as open carrying anywhere outside of the security perimter, that's up to you. Virginia (and especially Fairfax) now has so many open carriers, that any number of people could inadvertently open carry near a political rally, and there's no crime in that.



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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Could you open-carry a FAKE gun in order to get the point across and make your 2nd Amendment statement at the rally? Obviously you will get some crap for it but can they refuse you for it or have you arrested for it at all?

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    SicSemperTyrannis wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    HEY, FELLAS!

    This isa little bit dangerous, isn't it? I mean the thread title, "OC at...Rally."

    Somewhere in the Mt. Jack arrrest threads somebody cited afederal statute regarding weapons near a person being protected by the Secret Service. I couldn't find it in the current stickied threads; but I know I'm not imagining this.

    We need to make it very, very plain for new OCers and people who may not have followed the Mt. Jack threads that it is not a good idea to OC at the rally. Near the rally, outside the secure area, maybe--depending on the statute.

    This is not a situation where you want to screw up on your law. Norwould you want a new OCer to have a mistaken idea and try to OCat the rally.

    Ed, please be careful with your thread titles/sub-titles.



    I think the title should be changed, as it appears to ask whether or not anyone is planning on committing a crime. Who would you ask that? Why would anyone on this board do such a thing?

    One of the reasons the open carry movement has been so successful is that we know the law so well - sometimes better than law enforcement. This has benefited us time and again. I follow the law and I expect others to do the same. Regardless of what you think of the law, it has been demonstrated on this board multiple times that federal law allows the Secret Service to maintain a gun free perimiter around a few specific people under very specific circumstances - and that certainly includes both John McCain and Sarah Palin at this particular time.If you disagree with the law, you should advocate for the law to be changed or start a philosophical argument as to whether or not current law is wise or productive (or not). As this site has grown, we have started attracting many new members. Let's be very clear about the state of federallaw - open carrytoo close toJohn McCain right now = get arrested.

    As far as open carrying anywhere outside of the security perimter, that's up to you. Virginia (and especially Fairfax) now has so many open carriers, that any number of people could inadvertently open carry near a political rally, and there's no crime in that.

    I don't think ed ever was talking about entering the secure perimeter - as that would be quite foolish, it just won't happen and you WILL be arrested (I would assume).

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    Could you open-carry a FAKE gun in order to get the point across and make your 2nd Amendment statement at the rally? Obviously you will get some crap for it but can they refuse you for it or have you arrested for it at all?
    Most definitely arrest you and charge you. A fake gun is a "real" gun if it deceives the viewer.

    Charge you with the same thing they charged Myn Jack with - disturbing the peace and maybe find more.



    Yata hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    richarcm wrote:
    Could you open-carry a FAKE gun in order to get the point across and make your 2nd Amendment statement at the rally? Obviously you will get some crap for it but can they refuse you for it or have you arrested for it at all?
    I think this would be a perfect place to make your point by wearing an empty holster. Nobody could make a valid argument that an empty holster even creates the appearance of a security threat, and IMHO it would be protected free speech.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    Could you open-carry a FAKE gun in order to get the point across and make your 2nd Amendment statement at the rally? Obviously you will get some crap for it but can they refuse you for it or have you arrested for it at all?
    Most definitely arrest you and charge you. A fake gun is a "real" gun if it deceives the viewer.

    Charge you with the same thing they charged Myn Jack with - disturbing the peace and maybe find more.



    Yata hey

    What if it looked "real" but had the orange tips on it to signify that it was a phony? Like perhaps you holstered a watergun. Is there a law that says that a watergun can not be sold with a carrying device such as some sort of holster? LOL

    Perhaps my question is a bit out there but perhaps it isn't at the same time. It would be nice to be able to make such a bold statement at a rally such as this but at the same time be within the law and make it obvious that you mean no harm. And to do it without being QUITE as cheesy as carrying Super Soakers into the rally......

    Just wondering.

    Most people at a McCain/Palin rally would probably be at least FAIRLY moderate on the 2nd amendment as it is so it might be a waste of time anyways....

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    richarcm wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    richarcm wrote:
    Could you open-carry a FAKE gun in order to get the point across and make your 2nd Amendment statement at the rally? Obviously you will get some crap for it but can they refuse you for it or have you arrested for it at all?
    Most definitely arrest you and charge you. A fake gun is a "real" gun if it deceives the viewer.

    Charge you with the same thing they charged Myn Jack with - disturbing the peace and maybe find more.



    Yata hey

    What if it looked "real" but had the orange tips on it to signify that it was a phony? Like perhaps you holstered a watergun. Is there a law that says that a watergun can not be sold with a carrying device such as some sort of holster? LOL

    Perhaps my question is a bit out there but perhaps it isn't at the same time. It would be nice to be able to make such a bold statement at a rally such as this but at the same time be within the law and make it obvious that you mean no harm. And to do it without being QUITE as cheesy as carrying Super Soakers into the rally......

    Just wondering.

    Most people at a McCain/Palin rally would probably be at least FAIRLY moderate on the 2nd amendment as it is so it might be a waste of time anyways....
    So its safe to say that there are those that would like to make a statement, w/o risking serious problems with LE. To make such a statement, it would seem to me that you would have to attract some level of attention (be noticed) otherwise you are making no statement (unnoticed.) Example: CCing 5 blocks beyond the secured perimeter does nothing.

    Carrying any weapon or weapon look alike openly in close proximaty to a secured zone will attract attention and unless you are prepared to deal with the possibilities might be better avoided. Note this is not in any way criticism of Mtn Jack, whom I support 100%. Operative phrase here is "prepared to deal with the possibilities."

    Orange tipped air soft/water guns - still look real enough when holstered. Might not be a good idea to try to set up LEOs with an it looks real but it ain't, ha ha, scene - unless you are a considerable safe distance away from the action.

    Empty holster? Now there is an interesting idea! Says something about who you (we) are - pro 2nd Amend et al, that you are not an eminent threat and an obviously noticeable statement. Might even garner some press coverage so you should dress and act accordingly - did I have to say that - YES.

    To those that would object on the grounds that even being disarmed to make a statement is a step backwards, I do not disagree; however, I am flexible enough to take one step sideways to advance through another opportunity. To borrow an old ad slogan: progress is our most important product.

    Now if our new female VP candidate were to OC while campaigning that would be the "Impossible Dream" come true. Imagine the impact, the press, the MMM, the antis in congress, the UN, etc. etc. Then to have her elected and continue to OC - beyond the limits of comprehension. You have to admit that it is a beautiful dream.

    Yat hey


    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    When is the next McPain visit to Virginia??
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Empty holster? Now there is an interesting idea! Says something about who you (we) are - pro 2nd Amend et al, that you are not an eminent threat and an obviously noticeable statement. Might even garner some press coverage so you should dress and act accordingly - did I have to say that - YES.

    I have been wearing my Empty Holster for over six years into work in DC.

    I have received lots of questions and comments over the years.

    I remember someone in IL getting arrest for wearing an empty holster though.

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    Campaign Veteran Dutch Uncle's Avatar
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    I'd believe anything about Illinois. You'd probably get arrested for carrying a PICTURE of a holstered gun on your belt, or for "brandishing" a piece of fried chicken.

    I've also wondered if Palin OC's in Alaska. While I seriously doubt she'd do something like that on the campaign trail now, maybe she will when she's president in 2012. It would be great just seeing a picture of her OC'ing back home. We could make 8x10 glossies and stand them on the tables when we have OC dinners.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    OK. I am seeing a lot of flap about it being illegal- but this is OCDO!!!

    Show me where a statutes states it is illegal to OC at a political rally or inside a SS 'security zone'.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    OK. I am seeing a lot of flap about it being illegal- but this is OCDO!!!

    Show me where a statutes states it is illegal to OC at a political rally or inside a SS 'security zone'.
    Boy, cranky and lazy at the same time. :P

    Forum member ShipAhoy posted this on a Mtn Jack thread:



    USC Title 18, Section 1752

    Sec. 1752. Temporary residences and offices of the President and
    others


    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person or group of persons -

    (1) willfully and knowingly to enter or remain in

    (i) any building or grounds designated by the Secretary of

    the Treasury as temporary residences of the President or other

    person protected by the Secret Service or as temporary offices

    of the President and his staff or of any other person protected

    by the Secret Service, or

    (ii) any posted, cordoned off, or otherwise restricted area

    of a building or grounds where the President or other person

    protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily

    visiting,

    in violation of the regulations governing ingress or egress
    thereto:

    (2) with intent to impede or disrupt the orderly conduct of
    Government business or official functions, to engage in
    disorderly or disruptive conduct in, or within such proximity to,
    any building or grounds designated in paragraph (1) when, or so
    that, such conduct, in fact, impedes or disrupts the orderly
    conduct of Government business or official functions;

    (3) willfully and knowingly to obstruct or impede ingress or
    egress to or from any building, grounds, or area designated or
    enumerated in paragraph (1); or

    (4) willfully and knowingly to engage in any act of physical
    violence against any person or property in any building, grounds,
    or area designated or enumerated in paragraph (1).
    (b) Violation of this section, and attempts or conspiracies to
    commit such violations, shall be punishable by a fine under this
    title or imprisonment not exceeding six months, or both.
    (c) Violation of this section, and attempts or conspiracies to
    commit such violations, shall be prosecuted by the United States
    attorney in the Federal district court having jurisdiction of the
    place where the offense occurred.
    (d) The Secretary of the Treasury is authorized -

    (1) to designate by regulations the buildings and grounds which
    constitute the temporary residences of the President or other
    person protected by the Secret Service and the temporary offices
    of the President and his staff or of any other person protected
    by the Secret Service, and

    (2) to prescribe regulations governing ingress or egress to
    such buildings and grounds and to posted, cordoned off, or
    otherwise restricted areas where the President or other person
    protected by the Secret Service is or will be temporarily
    visiting.

    (e) None of the laws of the United States or of the several
    States and the District of Columbia shall be superseded by this
    section.

    (f) As used in this section, the term "other person protected by
    the Secret Service" means any person whom the United States Secret
    Service is authorized to protect under section 3056 of this title
    when such person has not declined such protection.



    Its posted on page two of this thread: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/15537-2.html

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Not lazy, I was not the one making the claim, I had no reason to cite. Cranky...maybe.

    I still do not see where it is illegal to carry.

    The Sec. of Treasury can make up rules but nothing shall supersede the laws of the US or States.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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