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Thread: progressive gun owners?

  1. #1
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    Hey guys,

    At the risk of starting a flame war of atomic proportions, I'm curious as to the following:

    What liberal or progressive or democratic gun owners/rights groups are at all active?

    I've known a number of folks that would describe themselves as politically moderate or even progressive that *do* recognize the value of gun rights and that own firearms themselves.

    However, they've all been pretty isolated since the conservatives and republicans that dominate most gun rights groups tend to talk so much much trash about moderates and progressives (comparing them to followers of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc) that they have no interest participating in such groups, much less being vocal.

    I've heard of A2Dems, Progressive Gun Owners, and some other organization that I can't think of at the moment, but I don't know of any significant non-right-wing-dominated group that is **known** to be active. The NRA (of which I'm a member) claims to be non-partisan, but let's face it -- in reality it's a republican/libertarian group.

    And before the the heatwave hits, let me say this one last thing -- I'm open-minded, love a balanced non-reactionary discussion, and am fully aware of the anti-gun-rights track record of Clinton, et cetera -- no need to preach to the choir.

    [[[ zipping up asbestos suit as I hit Send ... ]]]

    Cheers!

  2. #2
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    i cannot think of any...but they would be hard pressed to have much clout in this country since the primary progressive voice is the DNC...who is propping up one of the biggest anti-gunners of all time.

    the NRA does back a number of democrats (who are pro-gun), but they are seen as being a GOP group because most of the leaders they support happen to have an R after their name.

    BTW...welcome to the board! :celebrate

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    I'm a liberal independent and former Democrat. Don't want to ban abortion or guns.

    I know a number of other similar people, independents and Democrats.

    The national Democrat party simply doesn't want to do what it would take to get my vote. As a substitute, it (and Obamadinejad in particular) is willing to lie to me to get my vote. Being from Chicago andhaving seenwhere "commonsense gun controls" lead, I'm not the gullible hayseed they wish I was. I'm not buying their lies nor those of the Quisling "pro-gun" AHSA.

    I live in Ohio which has a very pro-gun (VASTLY more pro-gun than the previous two Republicans) Democrat governor. I plan to vote for him when his term is up.

    My Congressman is Dennis Kucinich an infamous anti-gun fanatic. My two Senators are anti-gun and more anti-gun.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Guns Are Not Right Wing, Guns/RTKBA are Patriotic ...
    Defend self, family and country damn with political jargon.

    If you think like a Statist, act like one, or back some, you've given up on freedom and have gone over to the dark side.
    The easiest ex. but probably the most difficult to grasp for gun owners is that fool permission slip so many of you have, especially if you show it off with pride. You should recognize it as an embarrassment, an infringement, a travesty and an affront to a free person.


    ~Alan Korwin

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    Guns are American...

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    Well, I'm a pro-gun lefty (generally) and it's lonely at the meetings, I can assure you. I like the Bill of Rights just fine - including the 2A. Our current governor (Ohio) is a pro-gun rights Democrat, but I know of no real left-wing advocacy groups on that front, alas.

    -ljp

  7. #7
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    I've just now found the site for Amendment II Democrats. I don't know anything about the organization, but they do exist.

    I had heard of Democrats for the Second Amendment before, but the site seems to be defunct (so, no link).

    I agree that it is worth bearing in mind that RKBA is -- or at least, should be -- a human rights issue, and not a liberal/conservative (or whatever) issue. Just MHO.

    regards,

    GR

  8. #8
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Anyone who would tell a woman that it's better that she be raped than that she shoot an attempted rapist is NOT "liberal"; Islamist, fascist, misogynistic maybe, but NOT liberal.

    It never fails to amaze me, the sheer misogyny of so-called "liberals" when they try to "explain" why women can't be trusted with guns. They usually resort to language and imagery that would warm the hearts of the Taliban. My favorite is "Women shouldn't be allowed to carry guns because I'm afraid of being mistaken for a rapist and shot." My reply is always, "How is it that you act around women that you think that will happen? Put down that butcherknife, pull up your pants and go home. If you do that, you'll be just fine." My second favorite is "Women will just have their guns taken away from them by an attacker." My first response is "So then, you don't believe there should be female police or members of the military?" My second is "So, if it's that easy to just take a gun from a woman, why doesn't she simply take it back?"

    Likewise, I'm always puzzled by Black so-called "liberals" who will in one breath (often rightly) tell you how racist, corrupt and violent the police are, then in the next demand that those same alleged corrupt, violent racists be given a monopoly on the means of armed force. I have NEVER seen anyone who could reconcile the two, of course because it isn't logically possible. White "liberal" anti-gunners frequently feel that they can use racial slurs against Blacks who refuse to support historically racist gun controls. Their attitudes are paternalistic and condescending.

    It sickens me that there are people running around calling themselves "liberal", when their attitudes owe far more to the Klan and the Taliban than anything identifiably liberal.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    I was returning messages left for me from people that want too set up some firearms training. I got one guys voice mail that said " Hi this is *** with the Obama Campaign". I thought that was odd. I look forward getting him in class

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    Gun owners' rights should be an issue for Democrats. Democrats are generally proponents of most civil rights, and the socialists/communists among them believe in the power of the "little guy" over the "big guy"/government. So, logically, they should be advocating private gun ownership.

    Republicans nowadays generally support an authoritarian government where the people are submissive to a strong central government that tells you how you must live your life and interact with others. That generally doesn't jive with individual gun ownership... which perhaps explains the conspicuous lack of gun owners' rights even when Republicans hold power in Congress and the White House.

    Regardless, it's one of the (if not the) most inconsistent platform planks. Both major parties take on their respective sides of the gun control issue because those sides correspond with the lifestyles of their target voters, even if it is ideologically incorrect.

    Want to have some fun? Ask a Democrat college student how he's going to "fight the power" when not armed with so much as a toothpick. Ask a die-hard Republican what he would do with his guns if a Republican-approved president decides that citizens no longer have arms following the next major terrorist attack on US soil. For "national security". Or to make sure illegal immigrants don't have them. Or gays. Then keep pushing them until they're forced to give up their party-approved half-truths.

    You won't even have to worry about getting covered in grey matter if their heads explode, since none probably exists in there...

  11. #11
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Gun owners' rights should be an issue for Democrats. Democrats are generally proponents of most civil rights, and the socialists/communists among them believe in the power of the "little guy" over the "big guy"/government. So, logically, they should be advocating private gun ownership.
    That's my position, and I don't know why more lefties don't get it. I'm reminded of the quote from Orwell about the rifle on the wall.

    -ljp

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    I had never read the Orwell "rifle on the wall" quote (and I've read much more of his stuff than 1984 and Animal Farm), so I went and looked it up. Here it is:

    Even as it stands, the Home Guard could only exist in a country where men feel themselves free. The totalitarian states can do great things, but there is one thing they cannot do: they cannot give the factory-worker a rifle and tell him to take it home and keep it in his bedroom. THAT RIFLE HANGING ON THE WALL OF THE WORKING-CLASS FLAT OR LABOURER'S COTTAGE, IS THE SYMBOL OF DEMOCRACY. IT IS OUR JOB TO SEE THAT IT STAYS THERE.

    More information about Orwell and RKBA here.

    Thanks for mentioning this.

    regards,

    GR

  13. #13
    Founder's Club Member Tess's Avatar
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    There are some, like the Pink Pistols, that don't espouse a you-must-believe-what-I-believe-and-you-must-live-the-way-I-think-you-should-live groups.

    I don't think the Liberal Gun Club ever really got off the ground. It was started in 2005, and their web site seems very weak.

    Learn About Guns has a link to some bloggers and gun owners who are not Conservative Republicans.

    I consider myself fiercely independent of any political party, taking as unemotional a look as I can at candidates, issues, stances, records, etc.

    On my way home from work today, I saw a yard sign "Another Democrat for John McCain" and I had to wonder why a person would be so proud of being a party member but supporting another party's candidate.
    Laws alone can not secure freedom of expression; in order that every man present his views without penalty there must be spirit of tolerance in the entire population. -Albert Einstein

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Gun owners' rights should be an issue for Democrats. Democrats are generally proponents of most civil rights, and the socialists/communists among them believe in the power of the "little guy" over the "big guy"/government. So, logically, they should be advocating private gun ownership.
    Hmm... Communists believe in the power of the laborer over the businessman, but apparently that means that he becomesa slave of the state. Or at least that's how I saw it. And probably the communist state has little interest in protecting the right of its people to have arms since they typically insist that the state has a monopoly on power. Since they believe people cannot evenbe trusted to buy and sell goods, they probably don't trust peoplewithweapons either.

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    imperialism2024 has a very skewed view.

    liberals are not about freedom, they are about complete govt control.

    socialism and communism is the opposite of freedom... there is nothing free about either of them.



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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    You won't even have to worry about getting covered in grey matter if their heads explode, since none probably exists in there...
    i've never EVER heard of a republican saying they would give up their firearms if Bush said no.

    not one. EVER

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    The problem with political labels is that they tend to become skewed over time.

    I think imperialism2024 and Deanimator make sense and bring up good points that Republicans and especially Democrats (Conservatives and Liberals, if you want to use those labels) would be hard pressed to address and in all likelihood never will.

    Where is the third party when you need them?

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    Where's the second party when you need it?

    -ljp

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    N00blet45 wrote:
    The problem with political labels is that they tend to become skewed over time.

    I think imperialism2024 and Deanimator make sense and bring up good points that Republicans and especially Democrats (Conservatives and Liberals, if you want to use those labels) would be hard pressed to address and in all likelihood never will.

    Where is the third party when you need them?
    Patiently waiting underneath the first two boxes, hoping to get enough people to vote their conscience so as to be viable instead of voting to make sure the other guy's statist doesn't get into power.

  20. #20
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    A gun owner voting democrat is like asking a chicken to vote for Col Sanders.

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    Mr44Magnum wrote:
    A gun owner voting democrat is like asking a chicken to vote for Col Sanders.


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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Mr44Magnum wrote:
    A gun owner voting democrat is like asking a chicken to vote for Col Sanders.
    iitttttttttttsssssssssssss true

  23. #23
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    Mr44Magnum wrote:
    A gun owner voting democrat is like asking a chicken to vote for Col Sanders.
    I'm an independent living in Ohio.

    Compare our previous two Republican governors and our current Democrat governor in terms of gun rights.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

  24. #24
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    The fact is, both parties have lost their political compass. The democrats lost theirs a long time ago, and the republicans lost theirs in the 90s. Shortly after FINALLY gaining control of both houses, they promptly dropped their small government ideals and started spending like democrats, WTF??? That was also about the time I personally left the republican party. The democrats haven't been on the side of the "little guy" since Kennedy.

    Its typical republican propaganda to say that "democrats" are anti-gun. There are quite a few democrats that are fiercely pro-gun, and pro-2A. On the other hand, the official democratic party platform is decidedly anti-gun. So, while it would be accurate to say that "THE democrats", as in the democratic party, are anti-gun, since their official platform is, it's not accurate to say that "democrats", as in a typical democratic governor, representative or senator, is necessarily anti-gun.

    As far as the issue of guns and gun control, it is not possible to look at what party a person is affiliated with, and determine where they stand (unless the letter next to their name is (L)). You have to look at each individual candidate, and see where they have voted on gun-related issues in the past. Listening to what they say about the subject is even worse. You have to look at their voting record.

    Also remember that not all republicans are on our side, either. Just about the most vile and vindictive gungrabbers in existence, James and Sarah Brady, are republicans!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    As far as the issue of guns and gun control, it is not possible to look at what party a person is affiliated with, and determine where they stand (unless the letter next to their name is (L)).
    It's an indicator, but not a guarantee.

    If somebody's a Democrat, my presumption is that they're anti-gun. Like Ted Strickland, that may not be true. Like Barack Obama, it's likely.

    Republican support for the 2nd Amendment is much harder to predict. You have Suzanne Hupp-Gratia on one hand and Bob Taft and Henry Hyde on the other.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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