imperialism2024
Regular Member
imported post
Mr44Magnum wrote:
:banghead:
Mr44Magnum wrote:
:banghead:
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progressive gun owners?
- Thread starter tico
- Start date
TipsyMcStagger
Banned
imported post
imperialism2024 wrote:
imperialism2024 wrote:
iitttttttttttsssssssssssss true
Deanimator
Regular Member
imported post
Mr44Magnum wrote:
Compare our previous two Republican governors and our current Democrat governor in terms of gun rights.
Mr44Magnum wrote:
I'm an independent living in Ohio.
Compare our previous two Republican governors and our current Democrat governor in terms of gun rights.
Slayer of Paper
Regular Member
imported post
The fact is, both parties have lost their political compass. The democrats lost theirs a long time ago, and the republicans lost theirs in the 90s. Shortly after FINALLY gaining control of both houses, they promptly dropped their small government ideals and started spending like democrats, WTF??? That was also about the time I personally left the republican party. The democrats haven't been on the side of the "little guy" since Kennedy.
Its typical republican propaganda to say that "democrats" are anti-gun. There are quite a few democrats that are fiercely pro-gun, and pro-2A. On the other hand, the official democratic party platform is decidedly anti-gun. So, while it would be accurate to say that "THE democrats", as in the democratic party, are anti-gun, since their official platform is, it's not accurate to say that "democrats", as in a typical democratic governor, representative or senator, is necessarily anti-gun.
As far as the issue of guns and gun control, it is not possible to look at what party a person is affiliated with, and determine where they stand (unless the letter next to their name is (L)). You have to look at each individual candidate, and see where they have voted on gun-related issues in the past. Listening to what they say about the subject is even worse. You have to look at their voting record.
Also remember that not all republicans are on our side, either. Just about the most vile and vindictive gungrabbers in existence, James and Sarah Brady, are republicans!
The fact is, both parties have lost their political compass. The democrats lost theirs a long time ago, and the republicans lost theirs in the 90s. Shortly after FINALLY gaining control of both houses, they promptly dropped their small government ideals and started spending like democrats, WTF??? That was also about the time I personally left the republican party. The democrats haven't been on the side of the "little guy" since Kennedy.
Its typical republican propaganda to say that "democrats" are anti-gun. There are quite a few democrats that are fiercely pro-gun, and pro-2A. On the other hand, the official democratic party platform is decidedly anti-gun. So, while it would be accurate to say that "THE democrats", as in the democratic party, are anti-gun, since their official platform is, it's not accurate to say that "democrats", as in a typical democratic governor, representative or senator, is necessarily anti-gun.
As far as the issue of guns and gun control, it is not possible to look at what party a person is affiliated with, and determine where they stand (unless the letter next to their name is (L)). You have to look at each individual candidate, and see where they have voted on gun-related issues in the past. Listening to what they say about the subject is even worse. You have to look at their voting record.
Also remember that not all republicans are on our side, either. Just about the most vile and vindictive gungrabbers in existence, James and Sarah Brady, are republicans!
Deanimator
Regular Member
imported post
Slayer of Paper wrote:
If somebody's a Democrat, my presumption is that they're anti-gun. Like Ted Strickland, that may not be true. Like Barack Obama, it's likely.
Republican support for the 2nd Amendment is much harder to predict. You have Suzanne Hupp-Gratia on one hand and Bob Taft and Henry Hyde on the other.
Slayer of Paper wrote:
It's an indicator, but not a guarantee.
If somebody's a Democrat, my presumption is that they're anti-gun. Like Ted Strickland, that may not be true. Like Barack Obama, it's likely.
Republican support for the 2nd Amendment is much harder to predict. You have Suzanne Hupp-Gratia on one hand and Bob Taft and Henry Hyde on the other.
Thundar
Regular Member
imported post
Legba wrote:
Here you go Legba, Links:
http://www.lp.org/introduction/what-is-the-libertarian-party
http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/obama-mccain-dont-get-free-passes-on-gun-issue
Press Release
For Immediate Release
Jun 27, 2008
Obama, McCain don't get free passes on gun issue
Both candidates share questionable past on gun rights
Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain both share a spotty history on gun rights and should not be granted a free pass with their recent rhetoric, says the Libertarian Party. "McCain and Obama are no friends to the Second Amendment, despite what they now say on the campaign trail," says Libertarian Party National Chairman William Redpath.
"Both Obama and McCain have a history of anti-gun rhetoric and legislation," says Redpath. "No matter how pro-gun their campaign rhetoric may be, they can't erase their past statements and votes as Republican and Democratic gun-grabbers. While a conscientious change of heart on the issue is nothing to be ashamed of, Obama and McCain's flip-flop on the issue of guns appears to be an obligatory, almost pathetic, appeal to a demographic to which they have never been faithful."
In the past, McCain has taken heat for his involvement with the group "Americans for Gun Safety," which the National Rifle Association (NRA) has called "neither nonpartisan nor a friend of gun owners." McCain has a "C+" rating on gun issues from the NRA, who once called him "one of the premier flag carriers for the enemies of the Second Amendment."
Obama, who in the past has supported legislation regulating the sale of handguns and other forms of gun control, has frequently stated on the campaign trail that the Second Amendment is an individual right--though one that can be regulated.
"Obama's position on the Second Amendment is even more damaging than some of the positions McCain has taken on guns in the past," says Libertarian Party Spokesperson Andrew Davis. "To call something a right, but at the same time saying it is a right that can be subject to 'reasonable' limitations, completely undermines the very notion of Constitutionally-protected rights. The Libertarian Party recognizes that there is a certain extent as to how far rights can go, but we shudder to think at what Obama might consider a 'reasonable' limitation."
The Libertarian Party hailed the recent Heller decision in a press release issued yesterday. The Party opposes the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. It also opposes all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacturing, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.
The Libertarian Party is America's third largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting http://www.LP.org. The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.
For more information on this issue, or to arrange a media interview, please call Andrew Davis at (202) 731-0002.
Legba wrote:
Here you go Legba, Links:
http://www.lp.org/introduction/what-is-the-libertarian-party
http://www.lp.org/news/press-releases/obama-mccain-dont-get-free-passes-on-gun-issue
Press Release
For Immediate Release
Jun 27, 2008
Obama, McCain don't get free passes on gun issue
Both candidates share questionable past on gun rights
Presidential candidates Barack Obama and John McCain both share a spotty history on gun rights and should not be granted a free pass with their recent rhetoric, says the Libertarian Party. "McCain and Obama are no friends to the Second Amendment, despite what they now say on the campaign trail," says Libertarian Party National Chairman William Redpath.
"Both Obama and McCain have a history of anti-gun rhetoric and legislation," says Redpath. "No matter how pro-gun their campaign rhetoric may be, they can't erase their past statements and votes as Republican and Democratic gun-grabbers. While a conscientious change of heart on the issue is nothing to be ashamed of, Obama and McCain's flip-flop on the issue of guns appears to be an obligatory, almost pathetic, appeal to a demographic to which they have never been faithful."
In the past, McCain has taken heat for his involvement with the group "Americans for Gun Safety," which the National Rifle Association (NRA) has called "neither nonpartisan nor a friend of gun owners." McCain has a "C+" rating on gun issues from the NRA, who once called him "one of the premier flag carriers for the enemies of the Second Amendment."
Obama, who in the past has supported legislation regulating the sale of handguns and other forms of gun control, has frequently stated on the campaign trail that the Second Amendment is an individual right--though one that can be regulated.
"Obama's position on the Second Amendment is even more damaging than some of the positions McCain has taken on guns in the past," says Libertarian Party Spokesperson Andrew Davis. "To call something a right, but at the same time saying it is a right that can be subject to 'reasonable' limitations, completely undermines the very notion of Constitutionally-protected rights. The Libertarian Party recognizes that there is a certain extent as to how far rights can go, but we shudder to think at what Obama might consider a 'reasonable' limitation."
The Libertarian Party hailed the recent Heller decision in a press release issued yesterday. The Party opposes the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. It also opposes all laws at any level of government requiring registration of, or restricting, the ownership, manufacturing, or transfer or sale of firearms or ammunition.
The Libertarian Party is America's third largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties. You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting http://www.LP.org. The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.
For more information on this issue, or to arrange a media interview, please call Andrew Davis at (202) 731-0002.
unreconstructed1
Regular Member
imported post
from the Republican party platform:
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm#1[/quote]
from the Democratic Party platform
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]This is one of the principle problems with both parties and why this country is in the shape it is in. the Political machine in these United States is based off of 2 ideals:[/align]
[align=left]neoconservativism, which takes the idea of classical conservativism and erodes it into one of aAuthoritarian Police state,[/align]
[align=left]and[/align]
[align=left]ultraliberalism, which takes the classic idea of liberalism and erodes it into one of asocialist police state.[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]both of the duopoly candidates are quite guilty of this, and that is why neither can be trusted.[/align]
[align=left]this year, vote with you're consience. If you are an authoritarian, vote Republican. If you are aSocialist, vote Democrat. If you believe in teh principles of Constitutional republic and a Free paople, vote third party.[/align]
from the Republican party platform:
http://www.gop.com/2008Platform/Values.htm#1[/quote]
from the Democratic Party platform
[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]This is one of the principle problems with both parties and why this country is in the shape it is in. the Political machine in these United States is based off of 2 ideals:[/align]
[align=left]neoconservativism, which takes the idea of classical conservativism and erodes it into one of aAuthoritarian Police state,[/align]
[align=left]and[/align]
[align=left]ultraliberalism, which takes the classic idea of liberalism and erodes it into one of asocialist police state.[/align]
[align=left][/align]
[align=left]both of the duopoly candidates are quite guilty of this, and that is why neither can be trusted.[/align]
[align=left]this year, vote with you're consience. If you are an authoritarian, vote Republican. If you are aSocialist, vote Democrat. If you believe in teh principles of Constitutional republic and a Free paople, vote third party.[/align]
like_the_roman
Regular Member
imported post
unreconstructed1 wrote:
unreconstructed1 wrote:
tico
Founder's Club Member
imported post
I personally have given up on pretty much any political group of any significant size managing to get *anything* "right" once all the posturing and baby-kissing is over, but that's just my pessimism at the results of clinton+bush ...
But just for the sake of argument (though I don't necessarily support either), I've searched for the "official" position from both the Green Party and the Socialist Party USA and have not found anything concrete but so far have come up with:
http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.php#9
-----------
Civil Liberties: Support the Bill of Rights. No compromise on civil liberties and due process for "national security," "anti-terrorism," or "the war on drugs." Repeal the 1994 Crime and 1996 Anti-Terrorism bills. End domestic political spying by police, military, and intelligence agencies.
-----------
and in the Socialist Party USA links, I've found vague chatter about civil rights (mostly focusing on free speech, etc) but nothing specific:
http://www.votebrianmoore.com/issues.htm
http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/civilrights.html
anyhow, I tend to agree with what others have said about the 2nd Amendment not being a party issue, and I know that there are pro-gun Dem politicians and anti-gun GOP folks, but the parties' rhetoric tends to polarize against the Dems (who can't even be called the left anymore IMNSHO).
I personally have given up on pretty much any political group of any significant size managing to get *anything* "right" once all the posturing and baby-kissing is over, but that's just my pessimism at the results of clinton+bush ...
But just for the sake of argument (though I don't necessarily support either), I've searched for the "official" position from both the Green Party and the Socialist Party USA and have not found anything concrete but so far have come up with:
http://www.greenparty.org/Platform.php#9
-----------
Civil Liberties: Support the Bill of Rights. No compromise on civil liberties and due process for "national security," "anti-terrorism," or "the war on drugs." Repeal the 1994 Crime and 1996 Anti-Terrorism bills. End domestic political spying by police, military, and intelligence agencies.
-----------
and in the Socialist Party USA links, I've found vague chatter about civil rights (mostly focusing on free speech, etc) but nothing specific:
http://www.votebrianmoore.com/issues.htm
http://socialistparty-usa.org/platform/civilrights.html
anyhow, I tend to agree with what others have said about the 2nd Amendment not being a party issue, and I know that there are pro-gun Dem politicians and anti-gun GOP folks, but the parties' rhetoric tends to polarize against the Dems (who can't even be called the left anymore IMNSHO).
MetalChris
Regular Member
imported post
Deanimator wrote:
Deanimator wrote:
If I was registered to vote here, I'd vote to re-elect Strickland in a heartbeat.