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Thread: DMV and MULE System

  1. #1
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    I was told that in Missouri that in a (traffic) stop, if a LEO ran your plates your CCW would not show up. But when your drivers lic was run it would. A clarification would be nice.

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    Most people who get CCW in MO get a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it. What this helps with is on a routine traffic stop out of state-- like Illinois or Wisconsin which has no concealed carry at all.

    In MO, even if you have a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it, the LEO will still find out you have CCW. You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.

    Also, in MO, you don't need a CCW to conceal carry in your car-- it's called "peaceable journey."

    It doesn't have anything to do with plates-- just your ID.

    Hope that helps...

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    Dano wrote:
    Most people who get CCW in MO get a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it. What this helps with is on a routine traffic stop out of state-- like Illinois or Wisconsin which has no concealed carry at all.

    In MO, even if you have a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it, the LEO will still find out you have CCW. You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.

    Also, in MO, you don't need a CCW to conceal carry in your car-- it's called "peaceable journey."

    It doesn't have anything to do with plates-- just your ID.

    Hope that helps.
    Welcome Dano! Hope your post helps others in Missouri as I see people posting theresay they do not let (LEO) know they have a CCW and even (LEO) posting that when they run your plates they will know you have a CCW( which only shows the owner of the auto).

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    Dano wrote:
    Most people who get CCW in MO get a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it. What this helps with is on a routine traffic stop out of state-- like Illinois or Wisconsin which has no concealed carry at all.

    In MO, even if you have a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it, the LEO will still find out you have CCW. You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.

    Also, in MO, you don't need a CCW to conceal carry in your car-- it's called "peaceable journey."

    It doesn't have anything to do with plates-- just your ID.

    Hope that helps...
    This is so funny....a few months ago I was stopped for a traffic violation by a cape county deputy, he walked up to my truck and I gave him my license along with my CCW which was put on one of those non-drivers ID......It was so funny...he would look at my DL and then my non-driver ID...LOL I could tell from the VERY puzzled look on his face he didnt know it was a CCW permit and he was wondering why I had a regular CDL and a non-driver ID.

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    I had a similar incident to Driver_59 in Raytown Mo. (suburb of K.C.) theLEO was young or at least looked young, I was being polite and told him I was CCW at the time and he wanted to see my license, and ccw registration, so I gave him both my License and State Id card, and he looked confused,I had to explain to him what it was, hebecame a little nicer, when he found out I have close ties with LE in K.C. he confessed that he had never ran across anyone who had this, or was taught what to look for.

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    Dano wrote:
    You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.
    I don't think that is the case. Is there another statute I am missing? Below is the only one of which I am aware as to carry and dispaly of the CCW.

    An interesting thing in the below statute is that while the MO CCW exempts one from the conceal carry weapon section of the statutes (excepting as to the carry of gravity knives and switchblades which are in a different section from that exempted), allowing someone holding a CCW to carry concealed knives, swords, batons, etc. However, the below section as to carry and display of said endorsement is specific to the concealed carry of a firearm, not as to other weapons allowed with such an endorsement.

    Duty to carry and display endorsement, penalty for violation--director of revenue immunity from liability, when. 571.121. 1. Any person issued a concealed carry endorsement pursuant to sections 571.101 to 571.121 shall carry the concealed carry endorsement at all times the person is carrying a concealed firearm [emphasis added] and shall display the concealed carry endorsement upon the request of any peace officer. Failure to comply with this subsection shall not be a criminal offense but the concealed carry endorsement holder may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed thirty-five dollars.

    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Dano wrote:
    You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.
    Not true as per deepdivers post of the reg. One must "produce" a permit only if requested by a officer and then only if you are carrying.

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    In Missouri you do not have to tell the Leo you are ccw or carrying a weapon unless asked. but it is advisable to tell the Leo and the very start of the stop. more likely you will be fine and be on your way as long you are respectable and dont give the leo a reason to secure the weapon. just keep hands on wheel at all times unless instructed. have id ready and laying on dash for when leo comes to door. they will know your ccw weather you give them your licenses or state id because there the same number.


    Dano wrote:
    Most people who get CCW in MO get a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it. What this helps with is on a routine traffic stop out of state-- like Illinois or Wisconsin which has no concealed carry at all.

    In MO, even if you have a non-driver's license with the CCW printed on it, the LEO will still find out you have CCW. You are required to show the LEO the CCW, whether or not you are carrying.

    Also, in MO, you don't need a CCW to conceal carry in your car-- it's called "peaceable journey."

    It doesn't have anything to do with plates-- just your ID.

    Hope that helps...

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    Have heard a lot of different advice on this one. Some of my LEO freinds think you should tell them up front, some don't. My gereral thought is you should let the officer control the situation andwait until the officer asks or silently hand him your endorsement or out of state conceal & carry permit along with your DL if you want to volunteer the information that there is a concealed gun present. The worst thing would be to start off with "I have a gun..." There has been at least one casewherea jumpy officer perceived a threat and shot the person. Maybe start with"I have a permit for..." would besafer if you feel like you should say something.

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    I realize this is a bit of a late reply, but I just now ran across this site. Bear with me. I am a law enforcement officer, and fought hard to get the CCW law passed. I currently teach a CCW course in central Missouri, and the question as to how to act during a traffic stop always comes up, usuallyright before I cover the topic.

    I instruct my students to keep their hands on the steering wheel, smile and pleasantly announce they are certified to carry concealed and are doing so. Then ask the officer how they wish to proceed. Every action beyond that point is the choice of the individual officer.

    Obviously, a St. Louis Police Officer will probably handle the matter differently than, say a Reynolds County Deputy.But the important thing is tocircumvent any surprises that may cause an LEO to react negatively. Giving the LEOyour CCW information up front will most likely put them at ease, as it shows you mean no harm and are going to be cooperative.

    Also, until the LEO runs your personal pedigree information through M.U.L.E.S., he does not know if you are CCW certified, unless you announce it firsthand and / or show him your endorsement.

    I hope this helps.

    David E. Stark

    deputy_dave_stark@yahoo.com

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    Deleted by moderator known troll.

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    MousePrife II,

    Quite actually, it is safety for my students, (and anybody else that chooses to carry), for a myriad of reasons.

    The driverhas no idea what the LEO has been dealing with just prior to the traffic stop. Possibly the LEO has the recent murders of fellow LEOs on his mind. Now, all of a sudden, he iscaught by surprise with the presence of a firearm in the possession of somebody he knows nothing about.

    Take that surprise out of the equation. Politely informing the LEO of your CCW certification and the presence of a weaponhelps to demonstrate you are not a threat to his safety. This in turn can put his mind more at ease, possibly preventing an unwarranted response that could escalate into a tragedy.

    You will find the majority of LEOs are on our side in the CCW debate. Those that are not make for interesting conversation as I attempt to straighten out their line of thought. The biggest obstacle is the 'them against us' mindset that is held by LEOs and civilians alike. Onceeither party understands we arebasically alike, (with families, homes, bills, etc.), we find LEOs and CCW practitioners have another, stronger link. Responsibility.

    An LEO has accepted the responsibility of providing safety for countless others, as part of his / her job. A CCW practitioner has accepted the responsibility of safety for them-self and their loved-ones as part of their everyday life. This is a huge responsibility for either party, not to be taken lightly.

    As for bowing down..., well let's just leave that to a certain embarrassing PBO that has no concept of protocol, safety, personal freedom, the meanings of the Constitution,...should I go on? How about we just work on respect for one another, knowing we share the common goal of going home to our families after work.

    David E. Stark

    deputy_dave_stark@yahoo.com



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    Deputy Dave, your protocol for stops is recognized asthe bestone if you have to come up with one universal answer for all situations. I was taught the same thing almost word for word. The problem is, as my instructor explained, there is no one right answer for every situation.I have an experienceof my own that is relevent. I will explain later when I am back in town friday and have time. It also ties in with the statement: "every action beyond that point is the choice of the individual officer".

    I have a question. Does an out of state concealed firearm license show up when you run a person?

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    If you are a MO resident driving on a MO DL, have a CCW and you get pulled over in any situation where the LEO is more likely than not to run your DL I personally see no purpose in not telling the LEO upfront that you have a CCW and are/are not armed at the moment (with the caveat that there are certainly specific situations and jurisdictions this would not apply).

    That's not bowing down or losing freedom and it is not that LEOs fault that the legislature passed a law putting the info in MULES. So if the LEO is going to know in 2 minutes anyway that you have a CCW why not just tell them at the get go and save everyone any tension or concern.

    Now if you don't have a MO CCW and are legally carrying in the vehicle the situation is more nuanced and there are definitely jurisdictions, such as St. Louis City, where I would be very reticent about volunteering my carry status.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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