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M14 Rifle

D

DreQo

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Jan 8, 2007
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ODA 226 wrote:
Shooting 10 rounds in 10 minutes at 500 meters from the prone position doesn't impress me at all. Don't the Marines call that the "gravy" stage because you have so much time to shoot? The iron sights on my M21 were ZEROED at 500 meters.
Click to expand...


Actually we got 15 minutes if I'm not mistaken, and yeah, it was definitely the gravy stage. From my experiences, the 500 yd line was essentially a step into the realm of sniper training. Wind calls were essential, and the full-sized silhouette was smaller than your front sight post. Even with that, as long as you got your wind and didn't jerk the trigger, you were hard-pressed not to get all 10 shots in the black.

I think those of you that are arguing are talking about two different things, weapon effectiveness (accuracy at range) and round effectiveness. The M16 is, according to specs, effectively accurate on a point target up to 550 yds. That means you'll hit the target, but the effectiveness of the round is a completely different question.


I liked shooting the M16 platform, but I've seen side-by-side damage of a .223 round and a .308 round on a deer, and the .308 just did more damage. Being a full-sized rifle round, that's expected.
 
D

Dustin

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Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
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DreQo wrote:
I liked shooting the M16 platform, but I've seen side-by-side damage of a .223 round and a .308 round on a deer, and the .308 just did more damage. Being a full-sized rifle round, that's expected.
Click to expand...



I've been wanting an AR for some time now, but Springfield has impressed me so much with their firearms, that i'm seriously considering the M1 Series.
 
ODA 226

ODA 226

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Dustin,

Apology graciously accepted and I apologize for calling you a bad name too. I'll edit my post also. Friends again?
 
D

Dustin

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ODA 226 wrote:
Dustin,

Apology graciously accepted and I apologize for calling you a bad name too. I'll edit my post also. Friends again?
Click to expand...


No apology needed my friend, my own arrogant ignorance was the start of that fire.

;)


I'll learn Humility one day :banghead:
 
Gunslinger

Gunslinger

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Mar 6, 2008
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Free, Colorado, USA
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TipsyMcStagger wrote:
springfield used to make good M14s. not they are junk and built overseas. at least thats what i've heard.

i would try to buy a american made M14
Click to expand...
Says who? Springfield advertises them as 100% American made in Geneseo, IL, and, at least 2 or so years ago when I shot one, they were outstanding rifles. If they're now made overseas, I be interested in knowing where. XDs are made in Croatia-which isn't a bad thing, necessarily, and cheaper Springer 1911s were made in Brazil, but never heard M-1A1s anywhere but here.
 
F

FogRider

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Centennial, Colorado, USA
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Overseas manufacturing does not nessasarily mean lower quality. If a company is smart (and SA is definitely that) they will be putting the overseas stuff through the same QC as the American made product before it makes it on the shelves. They would be stupid not to, there are enough people that won't buy if it's made overseas regardless of quality that they can't afford to lose more customers over an inferior product.
 
Gunslinger

Gunslinger

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FogRider wrote:
Overseas manufacturing does not nessasarily mean lower quality. If a company is smart (and SA is definitely that) they will be putting the overseas stuff through the same QC as the American made product before it makes it on the shelves. They would be stupid not to, there are enough people that won't buy if it's made overseas regardless of quality that they can't afford to lose more customers over an inferior product.
Click to expand...
I agree. A German made SIG Sauer is not exactly at the low end of the pistol scale. Czechs and Poles are capable of the highest mfg standards, as well. The best Migs were supposedly made in Poland I once heard. But SA states made in the US, so I'm curious if that changed. They took heat on the Brazilian made low end 1911s and make it very clear the higher end Operators are American made. Taurus makes a nice gun--especially for the money, but they don't make Smith quality weapons by any stretch.
 
K

kerchaulk

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Aug 30, 2007
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Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA
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DreQo wrote:
Ok, so I've been continually searching for the best "light" rifle to add to my collection. AR-15's are nice, but reliability of the rifle and effectiveness of the round can be questionable. AK's are nice too, but their lack of range and accuracy are draw backs, and finding a "quality" one can be difficult. I also hate the safety.
Click to expand...
snip...
Click to expand...

Don'tdismiss the AR-15 so fast. It can be chambered for much more than just the .223 or 5.56.

I am not sure of what reliability problems you have heard ofor experienced, but I have never had a problem with mine. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
 
R

redlegagent

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, , Tajikistan
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I can imagine why anyone would want to own one of these. :what::cool: If you want to get some good info, go to this forum.

http://www.m14tfl.com
 
D

DreQo

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Joined
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Messages
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Location
Minnesota
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kerchaulk wrote:
DreQo wrote:
Ok, so I've been continually searching for the best "light" rifle to add to my collection. AR-15's are nice, but reliability of the rifle and effectiveness of the round can be questionable. AK's are nice too, but their lack of range and accuracy are draw backs, and finding a "quality" one can be difficult. I also hate the safety.
Click to expand...
snip...
Click to expand...

Don'tdismiss the AR-15 so fast. It can be chambered for much more than just the .223 or 5.56.

I am not sure of what reliability problems you have heard ofor experienced, but I have never had a problem with mine. Take care of it and it will take care of you.
Click to expand...

They fail when they get dirty, especially the gas tube if I'm not mistaken. If they're thoroughly cleaned promptly after every shoot and after every 2 or 3 days at the most while in the field, they are reliable. The problem is if that isn't an option, you start to run into problems. Anyway, if someone handed me an AR-15 and said it was mine, I sure as hell wouldn't complain. If I have to spend the money, on the other hand, I think I'd rather have an M14.
 
E

eyesopened

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NOVA, Virginia, USA
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TipsyMcStagger wrote:
springfield used to make good M14s. not they are junk and built overseas. at least thats what i've heard.

i would try to buy a american made M14
Click to expand...

I own two Springfield-Armory products and they are top notch products. I had an issue with the EMP and they addressed that quickly and on their dime. Their warranty is a lifetime warranty on the product, not the owner. If there is an issue with their product, call them up and they'll give you an RMA #. They'll fix the issue, and then send it back to you on their dime. Then send them a copy of your shipping receipt and they will refund you the money spent on shipping up to $50.00. So in the end it costs you nothing for warranty service. SA stands by their product no matter where it is made.

I plan to get one of thier M1A rifles one day.
 
Jason Rogers

Jason Rogers

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Feb 12, 2007
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83
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Lorton, Virginia, USA
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Gunslinger wrote:
Outstanding weapon. The guys I knew in SEA would drop the 16 for a 14 in a second. Heavier than the M-16, but much more powerful cartridge, so if you're not slogging thru rice paddies with it all day, that's the one to own. Springfield makes a fine version of it for civilians.

The full auto was not well liked, btw. Hard to control. The guys I knew were taught to fire quick, two shot vollies. In full auto, the M-16 has it over the M-14, but that's not an issue unless you go for a Class III and want to spend a lot of money.
Click to expand...
If you replace the flash hider with a muzzel break this is almost completely elimiated.-Jay
 
D

DenWin

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Aug 19, 2008
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San Francisco, CA
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Dustin wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Dustin,

Apology graciously accepted and I apologize for calling you a bad name too. I'll edit my post also. Friends again?
Click to expand...


No apology needed my friend, my own arrogant ignorance was the start of that fire.

;)


I'll learn Humility one day :banghead:
Click to expand...
Great, now they're going to get into another argument about who's fault it is, sort of like reaching for the check at the end of dinner ;)
 
ODA 226

ODA 226

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Etzenricht, Germany
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DenWin wrote:
Dustin wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Dustin,

Apology graciously accepted and I apologize for calling you a bad name too. I'll edit my post also. Friends again?
Click to expand...


No apology needed my friend, my own arrogant ignorance was the start of that fire.

;)


I'll learn Humility one day :banghead:
Click to expand...
Great, now they're going to get into another argument about who's fault it is, sort of like reaching for the check at the end of dinner ;)
Click to expand...

DenWin,

It was a simple misunderstanding and it is over. Nothing to see here. Move along and have a wonderful weekend!
 
ODA 226

ODA 226

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
1,603
Location
Etzenricht, Germany
imported post

DreQo wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Shooting 10 rounds in 10 minutes at 500 meters from the prone position doesn't impress me at all. Don't the Marines call that the "gravy" stage because you have so much time to shoot? The iron sights on my M21 were ZEROED at 500 meters.
Click to expand...


Actually we got 15 minutes if I'm not mistaken, and yeah, it was definitely the gravy stage. From my experiences, the 500 yd line was essentially a step into the realm of sniper training. Wind calls were essential, and the full-sized silhouette was smaller than your front sight post. Even with that, as long as you got your wind and didn't jerk the trigger, you were hard-pressed not to get all 10 shots in the black.

I think those of you that are arguing are talking about two different things, weapon effectiveness (accuracy at range) and round effectiveness. The M16 is, according to specs, effectively accurate on a point target up to 550 yds. That means you'll hit the target, but the effectiveness of the round is a completely different question.


I liked shooting the M16 platform, but I've seen side-by-side damage of a .223 round and a .308 round on a deer, and the .308 just did more damage. Being a full-sized rifle round, that's expected.
Click to expand...
Dre,

We were actually agreeing with each other. It was only a misunderstanding. As I understand, the current time allowed is 10 minutes. Can anyone verify that?
 
D

Dustin

Regular Member
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
1,723
Location
Lake Charles Area, Louisiana, USA
imported post

ODA 226 wrote:
DreQo wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Shooting 10 rounds in 10 minutes at 500 meters from the prone position doesn't impress me at all. Don't the Marines call that the "gravy" stage because you have so much time to shoot? The iron sights on my M21 were ZEROED at 500 meters.
Click to expand...


Actually we got 15 minutes if I'm not mistaken, and yeah, it was definitely the gravy stage. From my experiences, the 500 yd line was essentially a step into the realm of sniper training. Wind calls were essential, and the full-sized silhouette was smaller than your front sight post. Even with that, as long as you got your wind and didn't jerk the trigger, you were hard-pressed not to get all 10 shots in the black.

I think those of you that are arguing are talking about two different things, weapon effectiveness (accuracy at range) and round effectiveness. The M16 is, according to specs, effectively accurate on a point target up to 550 yds. That means you'll hit the target, but the effectiveness of the round is a completely different question.


I liked shooting the M16 platform, but I've seen side-by-side damage of a .223 round and a .308 round on a deer, and the .308 just did more damage. Being a full-sized rifle round, that's expected.
Click to expand...
Dre,

We were actually agreeing with each other. It was only a misunderstanding. As I understand, the current time allowed is 10 minutes. Can anyone verify that?
Click to expand...




My Last Range was in 05'10 minutes, 10 shots @ the 500m. Loop Sling optional.
 
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