• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Email to Tri-Met to clarify their policy

machron1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
32
Location
, ,
imported post

An email I just sent to Tri-Met to clarify their open carry policy. I'll post any replies I receive.

----------------------------------------------------

Question about carrying a pistol on Tri-Met

Dear Tri-Met,

I hold an Oregon Concealed Handgun License, which means I have the right to openly carry a handgun in any city or county in Oregon, including public places, and including public transportation.

I recently came across your policy banning weapons on Tri-Met, which contains this exception:
"Where
possession of such weapons cannot be prohibited by law, a person in possession of a weapon
may not display or carry the weapon in a manner which is likely to result in fear or alarm by
other persons or District employees."

Clearly I cannot legally be prohibited from openly carrying a pistol, including on public transportation, regardless of how fearful or alarmed it may make other people, so my question is this:

Is it reasonable to assume carrying a pistol in the same manner one would ordinarily see a police officer doing so, that being stowed in a standard belt holster, to the left or right side, be in compliance with this policy? If not, can you please describe for me an acceptable open carry position that would be in compliance, such that it is not to likely cause fear or alarm?

Sincerely,

XXXX XXXXXXX
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
imported post

I already fought this battle with TriMet before. Their perspective was that this prohibited quick draw displays, not general open carry. One of their associate counsel said otherwise, but he was overruled by Brian Playfair (legal counsel for TriMet) when I pointed out to them that such regulations banning open carry would result in an immediate lawsuit if it was enforced. They kept the regs, though, saying that since no one was banned from their property for open carry at all, there's no concern.
 

DenWin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
160
Location
San Francisco, CA
imported post

Lonnie Wilson wrote:
I already fought this battle with TriMet before. Their perspective was that this prohibited quick draw displays, not general open carry. One of their associate counsel said otherwise, but he was overruled by Brian Playfair (legal counsel for TriMet) when I pointed out to them that such regulations banning open carry would result in an immediate lawsuit if it was enforced. They kept the regs, though, saying that since no one was banned from their property for open carry at all, there's no concern.
Do you think there would be a way to get this on something with TriMet letter head incase it was a problem with their transit police?
 

machron1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
32
Location
, ,
imported post

Lonnie Wilson wrote:
I already fought this battle with TriMet before.  Their perspective was that this prohibited quick draw displays, not general open carry.  One of their associate counsel said otherwise, but he was overruled by Brian Playfair (legal counsel for TriMet) when I pointed out to them that such regulations banning open carry would result in an immediate lawsuit if it was enforced.  They kept the regs, though, saying that since no one was banned from their property for open carry at all, there's no concern.
battle? i'm just another confused citizen in search of clarification of what seems to be a purposely vague (not to mention plainly illegal) policy.
 

machron1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
32
Location
, ,
imported post

I got the official word. Open carry is not allowed on Tri-Met. Shocking :quirky

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

In brief if you have a concealed weapons permit then you can legally carry a weapon that is not visible to others and thus would not be displayed in a manner that would cause fear or alarm for others;the weapon must be concealed.


Carrying a weapon in a holster worn with the gun visible, is not in keeping with the concealed weapons permit and would not be permitted on TriMet (except for officers of the law).


Please let me know if this does not answer your question fully.


Regards,


<Contact Information Withheld>
TriMet
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
imported post

They can certainly keep their policy, but they know that they can't enforce it against open carriers. In fact, the last time Transit Police even thought about doing so (with grishnav and Pssstpok I think his name is spelled), they knew they couldn't charge them with violation of this TriMet provision for their open carry, nor could they exclude them, so they charged them with the oral communication interception statute instead (because they didn't state that they were recording the conversation). If they had stated that they had been recording at the beginning, they would have had absolutely bupkiss and they wouldn't have done a damned thing.

Btw, Port of Portland recently rescinded their rule against carry in the non-secure areas of airports, so open carry with CHL (PDX is located within Portland and therefor requires CHL) should no longer result in exclusion. What's funny if that they kept huffing and puffing and threatening CHL holders for over a decade and they never actually enforced the rule.

I will be hammering TriMet again after the Nordyke case decides for incorporation of the 2nd amendment against the states (this is the California case about gun shows, read more here) to get this rule completely removed and allow state law to prevail. After the 2nd amendment is incorporated against the states here in the 9th Circuit (the judges on the case are very strong individual liberty incorporationists), 42USC§1983 will be a very powerful hammer against those that violate civil liberties. I will be causing Mr. Playfair or his successor some heartburn. :)

Go figure I post this before the last posting that stated that TriMet is saying concealed only. Machron, please send me an email exactly as forwarded, I will be contacting Mr. Playfair again.
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
imported post

Machron,

Forward the email to me please. lonnie.wilson @ comcast . net

machron1 wrote:
I got the official word. Open carry is not allowed on Tri-Met. Shocking :quirky

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Mr. XXXXXXX,

In brief if you have a concealed weapons permit then you can legally carry a weapon that is not visible to others and thus would not be displayed in a manner that would cause fear or alarm for others;the weapon must be concealed.


Carrying a weapon in a holster worn with the gun visible, is not in keeping with the concealed weapons permit and would not be permitted on TriMet (except for officers of the law).


Please let me know if this does not answer your question fully.


Regards,


<Contact Information Withheld>
TriMet
 

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
imported post

Lonnie Wilson wrote:
Btw, Port of Portland recently rescinded their rule against carry in the non-secure areas of airports, so open carry with CHL (PDX is located within Portland and therefor requires CHL) should no longer result in exclusion.
Point of order: OC without a CHL is still legal even in P-town, so long as not only the pistol(s), but also the magazine(s) is/are unloaded.;)
 

machron1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
32
Location
, ,
imported post

That or open carry while wearing a Burger King uniform and a plastic badge from the toy store...because uniforms seem to make people feel at ease...because they trust the establishment more than their fellow citizen.

It's amazing how completely we the people have been brainwashed...
 

tylerdurden

New member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
2
Location
, ,
imported post

I'm new to Oregon and the Portland area. I followed this thread and am a bit confused as to the mention of CHL along with OC. Does this all mean you can openly carry in Portland if you have a CHL? The terminology is throwing me off a bit: concealed => open.

Thx!
 

Phssthpok

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
1,026
Location
, ,
imported post

tylerdurden wrote:
I'm new to Oregon and the Portland area. I followed this thread and am a bit confused as to the mention of CHL along with OC. Does this all mean you can openly carry in Portland if you have a CHL? The terminology is throwing me off a bit: concealed => open.

Thx!

Oregon is an Open carry state, HOWEVER, state law allows counties, cities and other municipalities to enact ordinances against openly carrying LOADED firearms. CHL holders are exempt from these restrictions by the same law.

If you wish to carry in Portland and a few other cities, then you must either:
1) Possess a CHL
-or-
2) Ensure that not only is the firearm openly carried and unloaded, but that there are no rounds in your magazine, and the magazine MUST be removed from the firearm.

I OC in downtown Portland all the time in this un-loaded state and have yet to encounter any issues.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA

DenWin

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
160
Location
San Francisco, CA
imported post

M1Gunr wrote:
open carry while wearing a Burger King uniform and a plastic badge from the toy store
Ding! Fries are done.....(44 seconds of your life you'll never get back)
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=6172326

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'll go back across the border now....


So what happens if you "print" your weapon while riding Tri-Met? Will they give you the boot as well?
That's a good question. I would think printing is fine if you have a CHL since you aren't required to conceal it, but if I'm going to CC I'll make sure I don't print. I don't find it too difficult even with my small frame and using a HK .45 USP Tactical with a 5.11 shoot-me-first vest, so I don't think any one else should have a problem.
 

machron1

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Messages
32
Location
, ,
imported post

So, anyone hear anything about tri-met changing or re-clarifying their views on this? seems to me if they have a de facto policy against open carry in general, they should just state that, instead of making people attempt to surmise what is likely to scare people. i'm no lawyer, but as far as i can tell, that would require a sixth sense, and since i have no spidey senses, or clairvoyance of any kind, i would be at a disadvantage in the reading of the thoughts and beliefs of my fellow passengers (not to mention that is probably against the wiretapping laws). it seems they worded it just in an attempt to have their cake, and eat it too. on one hand, if someone asks if they ban open carry in spite of the law, they have plausible deniability because it doesn't say that in their policy. however, if they want to arrest or harass someone while carrying openly, they just say you look alarming, and off you go to the gulag. Also, if they want to disseminate false or misleading information from their security office, they can, and they if someone challenges it, they can just say "oops, my mistake, that's just what i was told." that's the beauty of intentionally vague policy. you can make it mean whatever you want whenever you want, and you always have plausible deniability as to the meaning, since in effect it HAS no specific meaning. I would like to OC on tri-met, but not if they enforce this policy willy nilly, however they see fit, at any given time. like the cops say, "you might beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride."
 

Big Del

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Messages
29
Location
Junction City, Oregon, USA
imported post

I have learned Metro is a very tough place to figure out. They run the zoo and there are no weapons allowed. It is public but when I called they said if you were made while CC'ing they would either charge you with disorderly conduct and or trespassing. I don't have the money to prove them there wrong.
 
Top