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Thread: Portsmouth Traffic Enforcement Checkpoints

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Portsmouth police are using checkpoints to enforce traffic safety. Since they stop everybody (only way to do it legally) they do not have Terry v. Ohio cover for disarming citizens. I always carry my Sig 229 on the dash of my car and usually carry my assault rifle and shotgun in the gun rack. How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?

    P.S. - Yes I really agree Doug, safety is a tyrants tool!

    Link: http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8985855

    Police Issue 40 Summonses At License Checkpoint

    Sep 10, 2008 02:10 PM EDT


    The Portsmouth Police Strategic Traffic Unit conducted a license/registration checkpoint on Tuesday. The checkpoint was set up in the 4900 block of Deep Creek Boulevard between the hours of6:00 p.m. and 9:30 p.m.

    The primary purpose of the checkpoint was to promote overall traffic safety in the community by preventing unlicensed motorist and unregistered vehicles from operating on public roadways. The checkpoint allowed police officers to check the driver's license and vehicle registration status of individuals passing through the checkpoint.

    The fourteen participating officers were briefed at the Strategic Traffic Unit prior to establishing the checkpoint. A total of 40 summonses were issued. Out of those issued, nine were suspended licenses and six were unlicensed. In addition, seven were for child restraints and sixteen for miscellaneous traffic offenses. Officers made four arrests, including two DUI, possession of marijuana and an outstanding warrant for failing to pay child support.

    Traffic checkpoints are a constant in the Portsmouth Police Department's enforcement strategy. The traveling public may expect checkpoints on a weekly basis at any time of the day.

    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?
    Sorry. We're not lawyers.

    This is an area of law I'd very much like to learn more about. If anybody can cite thecourt opinions, that would be great!

    With that said, I might suggest considering thecommonly suggestedfoot-encounter tactics:

    1. Full cooperation with all aspects of the traffic stop. (Dangerous. See Busted video and Prof. Duane video.)

    2. Cooperate in part,stand on rights in part.

    3. Stand fully on every single right--verbally and politely. (Caution:refusing consent to sobriety test may adversely affect your driver's license.)

    One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

    Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    SNIP How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?
    Sorry. We're not lawyers.

    This is an area of law I'd very much like to learn more about. If anybody can cite thecourt opinions, that would be great!

    With that said, I might suggest considering thecommonly suggestedfoot-encounter tactics:

    1. Full cooperation with all aspects of the traffic stop. (Dangerous. See Busted video and Prof. Duane video.)

    2. Cooperate in part,stand on rights in part.

    3. Stand fully on every single right--verbally and politely. (Caution:refusing consent to sobriety test may adversely affect your driver's license.)

    One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

    Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
    I completely agree...

  4. #4
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

    I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

    I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

    I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

    I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.




    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  5. #5
    Regular Member possumboy's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote

    One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

    Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
    While it is suggested to comply, always state your objections.

    I have had my trunk searched, I did not try to stop the officer. I did at multiple times state my objections and that I did not consent to the search. But I was in no way going to try to stop the officer physically. That way, if there had been anything to find, odds are I would have been covered.

    Giving consent means that if anything had been in the trunk, I would not be able to have it removed from evidence.

    Just to note: It was not my car, it was my parents. The officer search my car because it did not have a county sticker - the county my parents live in dropped giving county stickers. All other paper work was in order.


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    Thundar wrote:
    The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

    I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

    I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

    I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

    I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.
    I understand.

    Realize that you can be real "uncooperative" later. And at that later time, you may be able to cause far more grief, paperwork, etc.

    When you are next to the armed agent of the state, you are in jeopardy. Plain and simple. It might be slight, it might be very great--if the cop has low personal integrity. Why not fight back when the officer can exert his will over you less?

    Realize that if the cop wants those guns for officer safety, he's going to get them. I'm not even speaking tolegality. I'm speakingto what the cop thinks he can legally do, whether he is right or wrong. What if he calls for another officer--with guns involved you can bet every officer at the checkpoint will suddenly be zeroing onthe vehicle with the uncooperative person.

    What if: Guns come out. Out comesa baton. Smash goesthe window you only rolled down slightly.You're dragged out andgo face down on the pavement with aknee in your back while...you get the idea.

    Sure itangers you. It angers me, too. Look beyond the immediate anger.Look to the bigger picture. Fight back wisely.

    As far as I've thought about it, your first priority is to protect your legal standing so you can 1) fight back effectively later, and 2) so you don't pull the entire weight of the government down on your head in the form of jail time for obstruction, resisting arrest, etc.

    If you want to fight back against these suspicionless roadblocks, the best time to do it is before you're stopped. Join the local ACLU (cough, cough.conditional suggestion.) Talk it up to the underground media. Get some public pressure going. Get some friends and go video tape one while in progress and raise a stink about every rights violation witnessed. Get some friends to stand down the road just beyond the check point and hold signs with a phone number for people to call if they think their rights were violated. Etc.




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    Thundar wrote:
    The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

    I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

    I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

    I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

    I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.

    I understand.

    Realize that you can be real "uncooperative" later. And at that later time, you may be able to cause far more grief, paperwork, etc.

    When you are next to the armed agent of the state, you are in jeopardy. Plain and simple. It might be slight, it might be very great--if the cop has low personal integrity. Why not fight back when the officer can exert his will over you less?

    Realize that if the cop wants those guns for officer safety, he's going to get them. I'm not even speaking tolegality. I'm speakingto what the cop thinks he can legally do, whether he is right or wrong. What if he calls for another officer--with guns involved you can bet every officer at the checkpoint will suddenly be zeroing onthe vehicle with the uncooperative person.

    What if: Guns come out. Out comesa baton. Smash goesthe window you only rolled down slightly.You're dragged out andgo face down on the pavement with aknee in your back while...you get the idea.

    Sure itangers you. It angers me, too. Look beyond the immediate anger.Look to the bigger picture. Fight back wisely.

    As far as I've thought about it, your first priority is to protect your legal standing so you can 1) fight back effectively later, and 2) so you don't pull the entire weight of the government down on your head in the form of jail time for obstruction, resisting arrest, etc.

    If you want to fight back against these suspicionless roadblocks, the best time to do it is before you're stopped. Join the local ACLU (cough, cough.conditional suggestion.) Talk it up to the underground media. Get some public pressure going. Get some friends and go video tape one while in progress and raise a stink about every rights violation witnessed. Get some friends to stand down the road just beyond the check point and hold signs with a phone number for people to call if they think their rights were violated. Etc.
    I understand your wise advice Citizen but I must live by the creed of a free man.

    The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

    Live Free or Die,

    Thundar
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  8. #8
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    possumboy wrote:
    Just to note: It was not my car, it was my parents. The officer search my car because it did not have a county sticker - the county my parents live in dropped giving county stickers. All other paper work was in order.
    Stafford County just dropped the stickers. Alexandria is now claiming that before anyone may park a vehicle with no sticker in the city, they must register for Alexandria Personal property Tax and display a city sticker - EVEN IF THE CAR IS LEGALLY REGISTERED ELSEWHERE!

    "You must have a window decal. If you don't have one from your location, then you have to register your car here and get one of ours.

    If you don't, we'll keep giving you 40.00 tickets until you do!

    See: The City of Alexandria, Virginia is Violating the Code of Virginia at:

    http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/bad_alex/index.php

    for the details.


    "Never pick a fight with an old spy. If he doesn't feel like fighting he'll just kill you."

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