• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Portsmouth Traffic Enforcement Checkpoints

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

Portsmouth police are using checkpoints to enforce traffic safety. Since they stop everybody (only way to do it legally) they do not have Terry v. Ohio cover for disarming citizens. I always carry my Sig 229 on the dash of my car and usually carry my assault rifle and shotgun in the gun rack. How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?

P.S. - Yes I really agree Doug, safety is a tyrants tool!

Link: http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=8985855

Police Issue 40 Summonses At License Checkpoint

Sep 10, 2008 02:10 PM EDT


The Portsmouth Police Strategic Traffic Unit conducted a license/registration checkpoint on Tuesday. The checkpoint was set up in the 4900 block of Deep Creek Boulevard between the hours of6:00 p.m. and 9:30 p.m.

The primary purpose of the checkpoint was to promote overall traffic safety in the community by preventing unlicensed motorist and unregistered vehicles from operating on public roadways. The checkpoint allowed police officers to check the driver's license and vehicle registration status of individuals passing through the checkpoint.

The fourteen participating officers were briefed at the Strategic Traffic Unit prior to establishing the checkpoint. A total of 40 summonses were issued. Out of those issued, nine were suspended licenses and six were unlicensed. In addition, seven were for child restraints and sixteen for miscellaneous traffic offenses. Officers made four arrests, including two DUI, possession of marijuana and an outstanding warrant for failing to pay child support.

Traffic checkpoints are a constant in the Portsmouth Police Department's enforcement strategy. The traveling public may expect checkpoints on a weekly basis at any time of the day.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Thundar wrote:
SNIP How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?
Sorry. We're not lawyers.

This is an area of law I'd very much like to learn more about. If anybody can cite thecourt opinions, that would be great!

With that said, I might suggest considering thecommonly suggestedfoot-encounter tactics:

1. Full cooperation with all aspects of the traffic stop. (Dangerous. See Busted video and Prof. Duane video.)

2. Cooperate in part,stand on rights in part.

3. Stand fully on every single right--verbally and politely. (Caution:refusing consent to sobriety test may adversely affect your driver's license.)

One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
 

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
Thundar wrote:
SNIP How should I respond if I am stopped at one of these checkpoints and police want to disarm me for officer safety?
Sorry. We're not lawyers.

This is an area of law I'd very much like to learn more about. If anybody can cite thecourt opinions, that would be great!

With that said, I might suggest considering thecommonly suggestedfoot-encounter tactics:

1. Full cooperation with all aspects of the traffic stop. (Dangerous. See Busted video and Prof. Duane video.)

2. Cooperate in part,stand on rights in part.

3. Stand fully on every single right--verbally and politely. (Caution:refusing consent to sobriety test may adversely affect your driver's license.)

One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
I completely agree...
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.
 

possumboy

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Messages
1,089
Location
Dumfries, Virginia, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote


One of the commonly suggested tactics is to comply with an officer's orders. The idea being that the time to argue and fight back is after you are out of their clutches.

Some suggest notifying the officer you are armed and ask how they want to proceed.
While it is suggested to comply, always state your objections.

I have had my trunk searched, I did not try to stop the officer. I did at multiple times state my objections and that I did not consent to the search. But I was in no way going to try to stop the officer physically. That way, if there had been anything to find, odds are I would have been covered.

Giving consent means that if anything had been in the trunk, I would not be able to have it removed from evidence.

Just to note: It was not my car, it was my parents. The officer search my car because it did not have a county sticker - the county my parents live in dropped giving county stickers. All other paper work was in order.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Thundar wrote:
The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.

I understand.

Realize that you can be real "uncooperative" later. And at that later time, you may be able to cause far more grief, paperwork, etc.

When you are next to the armed agent of the state, you are in jeopardy. Plain and simple. It might be slight, it might be very great--if the cop has low personal integrity. Why not fight back when the officer can exert his will over you less?

Realize that if the cop wants those guns for officer safety, he's going to get them. I'm not even speaking tolegality. I'm speakingto what the cop thinks he can legally do, whether he is right or wrong. What if he calls for another officer--with guns involved you can bet every officer at the checkpoint will suddenly be zeroing onthe vehicle with the uncooperative person.

What if: Guns come out. Out comesa baton. Smash goesthe window you only rolled down slightly.You're dragged out andgo face down on the pavement with aknee in your back while...you get the idea.

Sure itangers you. It angers me, too. Look beyond the immediate anger.Look to the bigger picture. Fight back wisely.

As far as I've thought about it, your first priority is to protect your legal standing so you can 1) fight back effectively later, and 2) so you don't pull the entire weight of the government down on your head in the form of jail time for obstruction, resisting arrest, etc.

If you want to fight back against these suspicionless roadblocks, the best time to do it is before you're stopped. Join the local ACLU (cough, cough.conditional suggestion.) Talk it up to the underground media. Get some public pressure going. Get some friends and go video tape one while in progress and raise a stink about every rights violation witnessed. Get some friends to stand down the road just beyond the check point and hold signs with a phone number for people to call if they think their rights were violated. Etc.
 

Thundar

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
4,946
Location
Newport News, Virginia, USA
imported post

Citizen wrote:
Thundar wrote:
The AR and Mossberg in the gun rack would alert any but the most unobservant LEO before I could inform them that I am well armed.

I would clearly forbid the search of my vehicle (and get it on the voice recorder.)

I would not consent to being disarmed or searched.

I would not roll down my window more than the 1/2 inch necessary to ask if I am being detained.

I would provide my license and registration if it were demanded. Something inside me just refuses to be any more cooperative than that when dealing with those that detain me and demand to see if my papers are in order.
I understand.

Realize that you can be real "uncooperative" later. And at that later time, you may be able to cause far more grief, paperwork, etc.

When you are next to the armed agent of the state, you are in jeopardy. Plain and simple. It might be slight, it might be very great--if the cop has low personal integrity. Why not fight back when the officer can exert his will over you less?

Realize that if the cop wants those guns for officer safety, he's going to get them. I'm not even speaking tolegality. I'm speakingto what the cop thinks he can legally do, whether he is right or wrong. What if he calls for another officer--with guns involved you can bet every officer at the checkpoint will suddenly be zeroing onthe vehicle with the uncooperative person.

What if: Guns come out. Out comesa baton. Smash goesthe window you only rolled down slightly.You're dragged out andgo face down on the pavement with aknee in your back while...you get the idea.

Sure itangers you. It angers me, too. Look beyond the immediate anger.Look to the bigger picture. Fight back wisely.

As far as I've thought about it, your first priority is to protect your legal standing so you can 1) fight back effectively later, and 2) so you don't pull the entire weight of the government down on your head in the form of jail time for obstruction, resisting arrest, etc.

If you want to fight back against these suspicionless roadblocks, the best time to do it is before you're stopped. Join the local ACLU (cough, cough.conditional suggestion.) Talk it up to the underground media. Get some public pressure going. Get some friends and go video tape one while in progress and raise a stink about every rights violation witnessed. Get some friends to stand down the road just beyond the check point and hold signs with a phone number for people to call if they think their rights were violated. Etc.
I understand your wise advice Citizen but I must live by the creed of a free man.

The day we lose our will to fight is the day we lose our freedom.

Live Free or Die,

Thundar
 

TheEggman

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
174
Location
, Virginia, USA
imported post

possumboy wrote:
Just to note: It was not my car, it was my parents. The officer search my car because it did not have a county sticker - the county my parents live in dropped giving county stickers. All other paper work was in order.
Stafford County just dropped the stickers. Alexandria is now claiming that before anyone may park a vehicle with no sticker in the city, they must register for Alexandria Personal property Tax and display a city sticker - EVEN IF THE CAR IS LEGALLY REGISTERED ELSEWHERE!

"You must have a window decal. If you don't have one from your location, then you have to register your car here and get one of ours.

If you don't, we'll keep giving you 40.00 tickets until you do!

See: The City of Alexandria, Virginia is Violating the Code of Virginia at:

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/bad_alex/index.php

for the details.
 
Top