• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Home Invasion Robbers Pose as Police

MetalChris

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2007
Messages
1,215
Location
SW Ohio
imported post

Thundar wrote:
Thundar wrote:
jbone wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Being a former cop and having participated in many raids myself,I could tell immediately if they were real or not.
Some tips please!

1. Has your dog been murdered?:shock:

2. Is there a slight odor of donuts?:lol:
All joking aside, does the homeowner have an obligation to determine whether the home assault is government sanctioned before defending his or her family?
<-- Not this homeowner.
 

Hef

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2007
Messages
524
Location
Bluffton, South Carolina, USA
imported post

Anybody forcing their way into my home will be met with gunfire. When the gunfire stops, I hope to be the last man standing. At that point, I'll take the time to ID the dead guy(s) who broke into my home.

If I'm dead, I'm dead, so it won't matter.
 

N00blet45

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2007
Messages
475
Location
Walton County, Georgia, ,
imported post

Shoot first and ask questions later. It's not like I'm out on the street. If I'm in my home anyone coming in is obligated to identify themselves, otherwise I'm obligated to defend my property. It is the police's place to prove they are police, not mine to prove they aren't.

It might be a good idea to invest in a security camera that includes audio recording in case it is the police and they don't identify themselves.

No-knock raids are bad juju. Sure they might have use against dangerous suspects who shouldn't be given warning of a possible raid, but there are a lot of raids on the wrong house or for non-violent drug offenses.
 

AbNo

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
3,805
Location
Shenandoah Valley, Virginia
imported post

You know, this just reminded me...

Several months ago, a sheriff stopped by to serve a warrant for some Hernando Gonzalez guy.

I kinda hope he doesn't cause any major trouble before they get a new address for him. :uhoh:
 

eyesopened

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
731
Location
NOVA, Virginia, USA
imported post

Slayer of Paper wrote:
Since there is no reason that cops should be raiding my house, I'd have to assume they were not cops.
My sentiments exactly. Any strangers barging into my home will be treated as a threat and handled accordingly.
 

eyesopened

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
731
Location
NOVA, Virginia, USA
imported post

Slayer of Paper wrote:
Since there is no reason that cops should be raiding my house, I'd have to assume they were not cops.
My sentiments exactly. Any strangers barging into my home will be treated as a threat and handled accordingly.
 

Sheriff

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,968
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

ODA 226 wrote:
Being a former cop and having participated in many raids myself,I could tell immediately if they were real or not.

I would have agreed with you 20 years ago. But I've seen real cops lately

who don't even come close to acting like real cops in anything they do. :shock:
 

rodbender

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
2,519
Location
Navasota, Texas, USA
imported post

Sheriff wrote:
ODA 226 wrote:
Being a former cop and having participated in many raids myself,I could tell immediately if they were real or not.

I would have agreed with you 20 years ago. But I've seen real cops lately

who don't even come close to acting like real cops in anything they do. :shock:
If they were real cops (meaning that they take the oath to uphold the COTUS seriously), they wouldrefuse totake part in no knock raids.
 

John323

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
5
Location
, ,
imported post

rodbender wrote:
mobeewan wrote:
Has anyone proven they were not really cops? :what:
Extremely interesting questions. I brought up the same question with my State Senator yesterday. I asked why we can be disarmed by police during a traffic stop because in this day and time we are not sure we don't need protection from them. Here in Austin there have been a few (3-4) cases of cops forcing women to have sex during traffic stops.
Try looking up Hope Steffy (or they misspell it a lot as "Steffey"), she was actually a crime VICTIM that was first attacked by her niece, then by the investigating cop, then by the jail staff!!! (And then later by the judicial system at her "trial".)

Go to YouTube and search for "Stark County Sheriff".

Ohio Stark County Sheriff Tim Swanson, denies any wrong doing by the police. :what:

(Even as other LE across the country say it was abuse.)

Luckily elections are coming up, heres hoping that Stark County gets a new sheriff.
 

Sheriff

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2008
Messages
1,968
Location
Virginia, USA
imported post

The Steffey case wasn't actually physical abuse. It was mental abuse by law enforcement. Namely, letting male jail guards strip search her. And then the media obtaining the strip search tape and showing it in the news, then it being recorded and posted on youtube and numerous other internet outlets.

Honestly, I hope she sues the sheriff and collects about $10 milion dollars for mental anguish alone.
 

Liko81

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Dallas, TX, ,
imported post

Thundar wrote:
All joking aside, does the homeowner have an obligation to determine whether the home assault is government sanctioned before defending his or her family?
Yes and no. First it depends on the state; second, most states include extra protections for cops; justification is generally NOT present if force is used against a person whom the actor knew or should reasonably have known was a cop. So, all this tough talk is really scary to read; if you'd shoot a cop whohad a warrant to search your home, even under mistaken pretenses, you better have a damn good lawyer.

Let's assume that, through no fault of your own, a SWAT team executes a no-knock raid on your home. First off, if you think you'll get the drop on a five-man tac team, good luck. Second, if you think you'll put one of em down with a COM shot from anything less than an M1A, good luck. Third, if you think any cop in the world is going to hesitate to return fire when shot at, good luck.

Now, if those guys in black are actually impostor home invaders, choosing to fire on them might be a good move; they are unlikely to have body armor, will take a couple of kicks to get through the type of door any self-respecting gun owner serious about security would have giving you at least a split second to ready your gun, and theywon't expect armed resistance. However, youpoint a gunat a cop and it is very likely to be your last mistake. Theywill know what they're doing and be on you before youcan draw, they will have at least Level II body armorso a handgun or shotgun is unlikely to penetrate, and you make one violent move with a firearm andthe nearest threeofficers will start firing and not stop until you're not moving.If you survive it, the DA is going to use the full power of his office to have you crucified as halftime entertainment at the next football game. It is very likely that the jury will sympathize more with the families of anyone you did happen to injure or kill than with you, because, after all, the police are always right.
 

John323

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
5
Location
, ,
imported post

Sheriff wrote:
The Steffey case wasn't actually physical abuse. It was mental abuse by law enforcement. Namely, letting male jail guards strip search her. And then the media obtaining the strip search tape and showing it in the news, then it being recorded and posted on youtube and numerous other internet outlets.

Honestly, I hope she sues the sheriff and collects about $10 milion dollars for mental anguish alone.
I have done a LOT more than watch the dozen videos out about this. I have also contacted a lot of people involved.
(Except for Sheriff Swanson, I have NEVER been able to get a hold of him. Even after leaving my name & number at LEAST 3 times, with assurances that he would call me back.)
Heres a cut & paste of a few questions I have about this case.
===
As you may or may not know the grand jury brought NO charges against the police in this case, and NO information can be released about what evidence the grand jury reviewed. So we have no idea what evidence was presented to them, or what may have been withheld as too prejudicial.
I have no idea, HOW they could come back with NO charges, but I have read Hope Steffy’s trial transcripts and I have a few questions for the grand jury.

Ok first I have to assume that the official policy of the sheriff’s dept is that the deputies ONLY have to turn on their video cameras whenever they ’feel like it’.
The arresting deputy had a body mic & video control on him and could have started taping ANYTIME he wanted.
Other officers have been FIRED over not starting their cameras, but the grand jury thinks this merits no punishment at all?

After he’s taken the VICTIM and assaulted her and put her in the back seat of his cruiser and she’s mad and cussing him, THEN he turns on the recorder!
And then he wants us to believe that THIS is the way she was the WHOLE time.
THIS is the only video the jury saw.
Is this the way taxpayer equipment is supposed to be used?

The arresting deputy also testified in Hope’s trial that he felt that Steffy had “disrespected” him. This doesn’t raise any questions for the grand jury?

Then in trial transcripts the arresting deputy and the backup deputy had exactly the same testimony of Hope Steffy.
They both said she was staggering, slurring her words and smelled of alcohol.(Even though other PROSECUTION witnesses testified she was speaking “crystal clear” and did not seem that drunk, if at all.)
The backup deputy then continued his testimony by saying that he didn’t get there until Hope was being put in the back of the squad car.
How do you deduce that someone is drunk, staggering and slurring her words from seeing someone in the back seat!?!?
Ok, then we have the video of Steffy being stripped, she asks the staff ’what they are doing’ and telling them that “she hasn’t done anything wrong”. Do you hear her ’slur ’ her words? (I don’t.)
And once you allege that someone is highly intoxicated, doesn’t it seem necessary to do a breathalyzer? But none was done here.
But the grand jury finds nothing wrong with all these conflicting FACTS to the deputies stories?

Next we have the arresting deputy testifying in court that he had to escalate the amount of force to arrest Steffy. He testifies that you start out not touching anyone and escalate the force necessary, that is why he testified that he ’pushed her against the trunk of his cruiser’.
He then testifies that he had to grab her by her right arm, tripped her, and swung her to the ground to get the cuffs on.
The other witnesses testified that the deputy “flew into a rage” and slammed Steffy on the car and then threw her to the ground with great force.
How do you break someone’s tooth by a push?
How do you have someone bleeding from their nose and give them a bulged disk in their back by swinging them down to the ground?
The grand jury sees nothing wrong with the conflicting testimony and the FACTS of Steffy’s injuries?!?!?

He says that he used all this force, because he HAD to because she was “resisting arrest”.
Later in the trial he admits that Steffy slipped a hand out of her cuffs, but she TELLS him about it and never tries to escape! (Or resist without her arm being in a arm bar.)

The arresting deputy also testified that a reason he arrested her was that he was afraid that her disturbance would "generate more calls to the sheriff's dept."

Then in later testimony he said that there could have been no other witnesses to what was going on, because they lived too far away.
Just another one of many discrepancies of the cops testimony.

This is a professional??
This deputy dishes out serving after serving of BS and the grand jury doesn’t see anything wrong!??!?!

Then we have the jail staff.
First of all, why do we have EIGHT people parading her down the hall, JUST to "ask her questions". (Some of them already even have their gloves on.) I get the feeling Steffy was doomed, no matter what she answered. This doesn't look suspicious?

We have Steffy declared suicidal. A experienced psychiatrist can NOT tell when someone is suicidal, but their doctor claims to do it, in seconds, with a few questions? And sometimes over the phone?? When’s the last time a doctor would diagnose and prescribe for you over the phone?? Sounds like malpractice for sure and probably criminal actions.
The grand jury sees nothing wrong in stripping people they THINK, MIGHT be suicidal!?!? Even though the person NEVER said she was, or had been??
If they ‘error on the side of caution’, what this means is that the MAJORITY of people they are assaulting are INNOCENT!! How do you justify actions like this??!?!

And then we have men helping to forcibly strip a handcuffed woman.

By LAW, they can’t be present during a strip search, body cavity search, or even supposed to be where they can SEE women in the showers, but Swanson’s “policy” ‘SAYS’ its ‘ok’ for men to not only VIEW a forced stripping naked of a woman in a ‘suicide prevention’, they are allowed to PARTICIPATE and help remove her cloths!!!
(The sheriff dept denies that men helped, even as the video CLEARLY shows it happening!)
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Zemo999/SteffyRemoved.jpg

But the grand jury sees nothing wrong with men removing women’s cloths?
And why THIS controversial way to handle it? Even correctional mental health officials say this is highly controversial method.

All these laws to keep men away, but the grand jury finds NOTHING wrong with this policy, just because Swanson “says” its “ok”??? Does this sound logical and reasonable? (Or moral?)

Why do the 3 men STAY in the cell after she is stripped naked and the women have left?

Why are they moving her around on the bunk and manipulating her legs in different positions?
The only thing we can tell from these video strips is that WHATEVER it is done to her...its done REPEATEDLY, by the MEN!!

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Zemo999/CavityNoBlue.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Zemo999/CavityBlue.jpg

So what is their explanation or excuse for all of this as to why the women couldn’t handle this part of “whatever” they claim they were doing.
The grand jury buys “whatever” story they are peddling and still sees nothing wrong??

Steffy also testifies that her ears were ripped, when they removed her earrings. Does this sound like people trying to “save your life”, or that even care what happens to you!?!?
The grand jury thinks this is acceptable and is in no way criminal!??!

Then add on all the video, that isn’t there. A seven year veteran cop doesn’t “feel the need” to turn on his camera?

After 5 months of asking for the hallway video, the sheriff waits till the grand jury investigation, then announces that the camera “wasn’t working”.
The next two links show the eight people, with camera LED CLEARLY on, and looks to be recording.

THIS is the camera that the sheriff says was "not working", and there is no video on them going down the hall and questioning Steffy in the cell.
BUT then the sheriff wants us to believe that as they force her down on the bunk to strip her, its working again! (?)

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Zemo999/Steff1.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Zemo999/Steff2.jpg

I personally called the sheriff's office after I was contacted by the newsman doing this story, and was told that as of May 6th the sheriff still had NOT released requested video/audio.

So I then called (back in May) the sheriff, who again was not available, I asked if the video would EVER be released to the news or Steffy's lawyers, the sheriff's secretary, Carrie said that it would "probably" be released to Steffy's lawyers in discovery.

But, the video I was asking about, the sheriff NOW claims is non-existant!! (Gee, so I guess it WON'T be released huh!!??!)

:cuss:

(Even the video from the first lawsuit involving the three teen girls that were strip searched is “missing”. I haven’t heard anything about the Valentina Dyshko lawsuit, but I wouldn’t be surprised that video from that is “missing” too. )

This is the point where all the logic, reasonableness, and the plausibility of the sheriff and deputy’s story is REALLY falling apart.

Then the killer blow to their excuses, that they were not abusing Steffy, they were "just doing their job", to "save her life" is what happens next.

THEY LEAVE HER NAKED!

Their excuse?

"She was TOO suicidal for a suicide suit."

Huh? TOO suicidal for a garment DESIGNED for this situation??!?!

TOO suicidal for even a paper covering??

I never saw this in the video, all I saw was a traumatized woman who was humiliated, embarrassed and scared to death.

THIS is where the lies catch up to them.

THIS is where all the speculation of what was REALLY happening turns.

THIS is where we find out what was REALLY going on, and whose version of events to believe.

THIS is NOT an arguable point; THIS is NOT up for speculation.

THIS was done to punish, humiliate, and degrade Hope Steffy under the "color of law".
But the Grand Jury can’t see ANY criminal actions by the police!??!?!
 

Theseus

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
964
Location
Lamma Island, HK
imported post

Liko81 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
All joking aside, does the homeowner have an obligation to determine whether the home assault is government sanctioned before defending his or her family?
Yes and no. First it depends on the state; second, most states include extra protections for cops; justification is generally NOT present if force is used against a person whom the actor knew or should reasonably have known was a cop. So, all this tough talk is really scary to read; if you'd shoot a cop whohad a warrant to search your home, even under mistaken pretenses, you better have a damn good lawyer.

Let's assume that, through no fault of your own, a SWAT team executes a no-knock raid on your home. First off, if you think you'll get the drop on a five-man tac team, good luck. Second, if you think you'll put one of em down with a COM shot from anything less than an M1A, good luck. Third, if you think any cop in the world is going to hesitate to return fire when shot at, good luck.

Now, if those guys in black are actually impostor home invaders, choosing to fire on them might be a good move; they are unlikely to have body armor, will take a couple of kicks to get through the type of door any self-respecting gun owner serious about security would have giving you at least a split second to ready your gun, and theywon't expect armed resistance. However, youpoint a gunat a cop and it is very likely to be your last mistake. Theywill know what they're doing and be on you before youcan draw, they will have at least Level II body armorso a handgun or shotgun is unlikely to penetrate, and you make one violent move with a firearm andthe nearest threeofficers will start firing and not stop until you're not moving.If you survive it, the DA is going to use the full power of his office to have you crucified as halftime entertainment at the next football game. It is very likely that the jury will sympathize more with the families of anyone you did happen to injure or kill than with you, because, after all, the police are always right.
You convinced me...I need stronger weapons...Even if they are cops and will shoot back, they won't listen to reason, so once I have already attempted to defend myself then I am in it for the long run, so might as well make sure that if I shoot it will take them down.
 

yeahYeah

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
433
Location
Las Vegas, NV, ,
imported post

Liko81 wrote:
Thundar wrote:
All joking aside, does the homeowner have an obligation to determine whether the home assault is government sanctioned before defending his or her family?
Yes and no. First it depends on the state; second, most states include extra protections for cops; justification is generally NOT present if force is used against a person whom the actor knew or should reasonably have known was a cop. So, all this tough talk is really scary to read; if you'd shoot a cop whohad a warrant to search your home, even under mistaken pretenses, you better have a damn good lawyer.

Let's assume that, through no fault of your own, a SWAT team executes a no-knock raid on your home. First off, if you think you'll get the drop on a five-man tac team, good luck. Second, if you think you'll put one of em down with a COM shot from anything less than an M1A, good luck. Third, if you think any cop in the world is going to hesitate to return fire when shot at, good luck.

Now, if those guys in black are actually impostor home invaders, choosing to fire on them might be a good move; they are unlikely to have body armor, will take a couple of kicks to get through the type of door any self-respecting gun owner serious about security would have giving you at least a split second to ready your gun, and theywon't expect armed resistance. However, youpoint a gunat a cop and it is very likely to be your last mistake. Theywill know what they're doing and be on you before youcan draw, they will have at least Level II body armorso a handgun or shotgun is unlikely to penetrate, and you make one violent move with a firearm andthe nearest threeofficers will start firing and not stop until you're not moving.If you survive it, the DA is going to use the full power of his office to have you crucified as halftime entertainment at the next football game. It is very likely that the jury will sympathize more with the families of anyone you did happen to injure or kill than with you, because, after all, the police are always right.
so basically, if I am the victim of some sort of screw up and my house is raided in error (instead of my neighbors), i can hang for defending myself in light of foolishness on the LEO's end.

We read a lot about LEO's raiding the wrong homes. If i hear my door being kicked in, i will be ready to rock and roll. Door kicking is the #1 way thieves enter homes here.
 

sraacke

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
1,214
Location
Saint Gabriel, Louisiana, USA
imported post

TheMrMitch wrote:
Rural area here.I know all the cops and they know me. Would never be a problem, but people in the big cities.......:shock:
That may not help if the cops aren't locals. It wasn't long ago we had a thread in here regarding a SWAT raid on a man's home. Agents killed the family dog and held him at gunpoint. The guy was the town mayor. The agents didn't believe him. Knowing all the local cops is not always the answer.
 

John323

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Messages
5
Location
, ,
imported post

yale wrote:
TheMrMitch wrote:
Rural area here.I know all the cops and they know me. Would never be a problem, but people in the big cities.......:shock:
That may not help if the cops aren't locals. It wasn't long ago we had a thread in here regarding a SWAT raid on a man's home. Agents killed the family dog and held him at gunpoint. The guy was the town mayor. The agents didn't believe him. Knowing all the local cops is not always the answer.
I heard about the Mayor. I wonder what would have happened if he would have killed one of the cops?

All the cops have to do is say they yelled "police", but as this post shows the crooks can do that too.
 

Theseus

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
964
Location
Lamma Island, HK
imported post

I truly believe that the best course is to eliminate the "No Knock" warrant.

The risk of conducting these raids dramatically increases the likelihood of death to either an officer or a suspect with little additional advantage.
 
Top