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Thread: lectured at gun range for OC

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    Regular Member fire suppressor's Avatar
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    I went to to range today to shoot my XD and I was OC as I have been doing all summer. I went to check in with the range officer and he asked me if I was law enforcement. I laughed and said no firefighter. He then got very serious very quickly and said that I had to take my hand gun out of my holster immidietly. I have been showing up to the range all summer with a gun on my hip with out any kind of problem. I laughed agin and asked why. He said unless I was a cop it was illegal to carry onto a range. I have never herd of this "law" before. Like I said I have OC onto the same range all summer without any problems, I know the other range officers noticed I was carring. Any one know is this law for real or did I simply get a range officer on a bad day?
    "Fight like you train, train like you fight"

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    There is no such law to my knowledge.

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    As always, when someone accuses you of breaking the "law", get him to quote that law. Absent the quote, get him to name the law in question (title or number). Things not prohibited by specific law are, by definition, legal.

    By the way, this works well with cops, whose business is the law, not rumor or "everybody knows". If told that you're "scaring people", demand the law in question by number or quote. If the cop can't get to 9.41.270 the conversation is no better than women babbling at the well. If he can, you can elucidate the difference between "warrants" and "causes" and the necessity to read the entire law.


    MD

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    fire suppressor wrote:
    I went to to range today to shoot my XD and I was OC as I have been doing all summer. I went to check in with the range officer and he asked me if I was law enforcement. I laughed and said no firefighter. He then got very serious very quickly and said that I had to take my hand gun out of my holster immidietly. I have been showing up to the range all summer with a gun on my hip with out any kind of problem. I laughed agin and asked why. He said unless I was a cop it was illegal to carry onto a range. I have never herd of this "law" before. Like I said I have OC onto the same range all summer without any problems, I know the other range officers noticed I was carring. Any one know is this law for real or did I simply get a range officer on a bad day?
    If you cannot open carry on a range, then how can you shoot?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    It is not illegal. It is most likely, like almost every other gun range, against their rules. I would go back to the range, ask to speak the the range officer on duty at the time, and simply inform him that it is not illegal in Washington to carry a firearm openly. Give him a brochure and if he gives you anymore trouble, let me know. I wouldn't mind stopping by there sometime and canceling my membership.

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    Everybody I've talked to favors KRR over PSC. I've visited both and ended up agreeing. In addition to their "no open carry" policy, PSC also mandates a "two-second pause between shots" rule (i.e., no double-tapping or other rapid fire), KRR does not.

    Kitsap Rifle & Revolver
    4900 Seabeck Hwy NW
    Bremerton WA 98312
    website: http://www.gunsafety.org

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    WTF? Was the range officer a noob?


    EDIT: 3/325, I agree. Fire Suppressor and I shoot there quite often and it's much better. However, it's a good 45 minutes away. Still, when I can afford the gas, I much prefer to shoot there.

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    And also, I know that range officers and the like read these forums. You'd be surprised who actually reads these forums and knows that open carry is legal. I've told about 5 people within the last month that I've met randomly through different venues who said that they knew OC was legal in Washington and that they do read the forums every once in awhile. Most people just aren't posters. And I am doubly sure that he knew it was legal, I'm sure he just didn't like it.

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    Regular Member gsx1138's Avatar
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    I've been a KRRC member for less than a year and I highly recommend it. Strict safety without being stupid.

    There is no law for what you described. Pretty much everyone at KRRC open carries.

    I've heard the Poulsbo range is full of range nazi's so I've never bothered to go there.

    Also, there is no fire rate rule at KRRC. Shoot as fast as you can control it.
    "Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world." ~ Musashi

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    Had this same issue with a range here in Spokane not too long ago. They had been incorrectly passing information that Open Carry was illegal. They now know better, but still don't allow it.

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    For those on the east side of the sound, there's Wades in Bellevue. It's small and indoor, but they are happy to see people OC and on the range, as long as you keep it on the paper and aren't being a ****** you can full load mags and blast away. The only thing they restrict is drawing from a holster and shooting and once you take their little safty course for that, you're good to go. You also have to be a member to shoot rifles there, but you don't to shoot your own pistol. We had a family membership there, but let it expire since we were shooting at a private range in Monroe. But we may renew at Wades so we don't have to drive so far to get a little range time in with the pistols. Also I'll be able to use them for testing once my business is fully up and running.

    Marcus

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    I quit going to Wade's (for shooting or shopping) after they wouldn't allow me to shoot on a Friday evening becausethey would beclosing in 55 minutes (and there was some fudge room there too, my watch was only 2 minutes past the hour). I had justpicked upa brand new Springfield EMP and wanted to fire a couple of magazines through it, a 15-20 minute shoot at most. Theyaskedif I was LEO or a member, which I wasn't and then said they wouldn't let me on to shoot. I was rather pissed to say the least. I made a trip all the way over from Seattle and was turned away with the logic being that a member or LEO could shoot because somehow a LEO or club member will shoot faster than me and get out before closing time, but I wouldn't.

    Do members and LEO get to shoot past closing time, maybe I'm off the mark here, but I was super surprised that they wouldn't let me puta fewrounds downrange, expecially since their fee is the same.



    sirpuma wrote:
    For those on the east side of the sound, there's Wades in Bellevue. It's small and indoor, but they are happy to see people OC and on the range, as long as you keep it on the paper and aren't being a ****** you can full load mags and blast away. The only thing they restrict is drawing from a holster and shooting and once you take their little safty course for that, you're good to go. You also have to be a member to shoot rifles there, but you don't to shoot your own pistol. We had a family membership there, but let it expire since we were shooting at a private range in Monroe. But we may renew at Wades so we don't have to drive so far to get a little range time in with the pistols. Also I'll be able to use them for testing once my business is fully up and running.

    Marcus

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    I'venever been there near closing time. As far as I know when it's closing time, it's closing time. I am a bit surprised that you were turned away with almost an hour to go. There are times when membership has it's perks but unless all the lanes were full, there's no reason for them to turn you away.


    arms_libertas wrote:
    I quit going to Wade's (for shooting or shopping) after they wouldn't allow me to shoot on a Friday evening becausethey would beclosing in 55 minutes (and there was some fudge room there too, my watch was only 2 minutes past the hour). I had justpicked upa brand new Springfield EMP and wanted to fire a couple of magazines through it, a 15-20 minute shoot at most. Theyaskedif I was LEO or a member, which I wasn't and then said they wouldn't let me on to shoot. I was rather pissed to say the least. I made a trip all the way over from Seattle and was turned away with the logic being that a member or LEO could shoot because somehow a LEO or club member will shoot faster than me and get out before closing time, but I wouldn't.

    Do members and LEO get to shoot past closing time, maybe I'm off the mark here, but I was super surprised that they wouldn't let me puta fewrounds downrange, expecially since their fee is the same.

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    The Poulsbo Sportsman Club has for years been dominated by "sporting elitists" shotgunners that look down their collective noses at pistol shooters. I was a member many years ago, and watched the political factions in that club tear each other apart with stupid petty arguments over the smallest of "rules infractions" and personality clashes. They threw people out of the club that dared todisagree with their edicts.

    I quit in disgust and joined Kitsap Rifle & Revolver Club out by Seabeck, and have never looked back. KRRC has the best bunch of guys and gals you would ever want to meet as range officers, and their emphasis on saftey and fun is outstanding! They welcome everybody there, give free membership to police and our military, put on a ton of classes like personal safety, gunsmithing, reloading, Constitutional law, etc.

    Their rules are common sense, not silly nit-picking, and they are all there to help and encourage all the shooting sports. They love to see families, women and kids participate, and they work hard to make everyone feel welcome and comfortable.

    They even have machine-gun shoots occasionally for fund-raisers where you can make a contribution for ammo and shoot leagally-owned full autos! They have even had members drag-out .50 cal. rifles and evencannons to shoot there (you just have to notify them first as to what you want to do so they can let everyone there know what to expect).

    The difference is likenight and day between the two ONLY because of the attitude of the members and the people in charge of running the club. Range Nazis is a great term to describe those folks.

    Check them out for yourself.

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    There were many lanes open and I think that due to the low numbers of shooters the staff was tryingto get out of there early, which I can understand... hell it was a Friday night, who wouldn't. That's why I explained I just wanted to shoot a few rounds downrange with the new gun, and I'd be out of there fast. They said it was a policy (not allowing anyone on the range with less than an hour to go until close) and that was that. To this day I am stunned that they would pull such a move, so I decided to vote with my feet.

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    I thought the law says you can even conceal without a permit on your way to the range.

    well, i just looked gotta be a member of a club... still doesn't say it's illegal, just adds another reason why it's legal (if it applies).


    (6) Regularly enrolled members of clubs organized for the purpose of target shooting, when those members are at or are going to or from their places of target practice;

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    I will NEVER go to that range in Pulsbo again. They absolutely suck. I went there a while back and they also said that OC is not allowed. They also have these very liberal pleasing regulations about rate of fire (*BANG* one thousand one, one thousand two *BANG*) I got my ass chewed for rapid firing my 1911 (safely down range). They provide only the grounds to discharge your weapon. They do not allow for realistic training.

    That is what I found so great about KRRC. I will be a member there for as long as I live in this region. OC is common practice, and when you ask them their regulations on rate of fire, they smile and say as fast as you can safely fire. They also offer a variety of training calsses. The grounds have improved greatly and it is easy to call that place home once you start to go and get to know the people there. I consider that place my second home even though I don't get to shoot much (ammo$$$).

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    I am ready to take the flaming, so go ahead. I was a member at KRR several years ago, and at the same time vice pres at Poulsbo Sportsman. Poulsbo Sportsman is basically a club for those that want to do competetive or target work with either a shotgun, handgun or long gun. Most of the members there have passed beyond the stage of rapid fire, and decided to concentrate on making the first shot the only one necessary.

    Which ever club you choose to belong to, it makes no difference to me I prefer the Poulsbo club because I am interested in long range competetion. (200 yd is short range but good for trigger time) The rapid fire is detrimental to the concentration needed for 500+ yard work. Yeah it is only 200 there, but you do in stress what you do in practice. After 27 years in LE, I think I have reached what I need for defensive handgun work. I practice away from the range in secenarios you would not do or possibly understand.

    On the other hand, KRR is good for those that want to do their ballistic masterbation at 250 rounds a minute with a glock.

    Both clubs are good and serve a specific purpose. as far as calling the range officers nazis for following club rules that you don't like, look in the mirror when you talk about thing you like to ban that others like.
    If you don't like the rules, join the club get on the board and change things. Bitching about it here does not help our cause or change the rules.


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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    ballistic masterbation
    That is a hilarious term But on your point, I understand.

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    Trigger Dr wrote:
    Most of the members there have passed beyond the stage of rapid fire, and decided to concentrate on making the first shot the only one necessary.

    ahhh yes, i believe that is called leaving reality behind, further emphasizing iron mongers first point.

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    I can see Trigger Dr's point. When I go to the range I sometimes see guys who worry more about how many rounds they can put in the air than where those same rounds are going. When you care about bullet PLACEMENT it can be disconcerting to get these wannabees popping off a magazine as fast as they can pull the trigger.

    Makes for some added realism, though.

    ETF: Spelling
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


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    Bookman wrote:
    I can see Trigger Dr's point. When I go to the range I sometimes see guys who worry more about how many rounds they can put in the air than where those same rounds are going. When you care about bullet PLACEMENT it can be diconcerting to get these wannabees popping of a magazine as fast as they can pull the trigger.

    Makes for some added realism, though.
    I wish we would have had this rule in combat, Would have made life a lot easier and way less stressful.

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    Bookman wrote:
    I can see Trigger Dr's point. When I go to the range I sometimes see guys who worry more about how many rounds they can put in the air than where those same rounds are going. When you care about bullet PLACEMENT it can be disconcerting to get these wannabees popping off a magazine as fast as they can pull the trigger.

    Makes for some added realism, though.

    ETF: Spelling
    Yes accuracy is good, but your forgetting several rules
    Rule 2.) Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap life is expensive
    Rule 3.) Only hits count. Close doesn't count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
    Rule 4.) If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
    Rule 7.) In ten years nobody will remember the details of the caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't.
    Rule 9.)Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun...


    if it's a gunfight the guy who takes his time to draw and get a perfect bead will be dead before he can

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    The range I volunteer at discourages fast firing (one shot per second is the rule), and drawing from the holster. I wish it could be otherwise. I wish our range was set up to be an IDPA-friendly situation. But it's not.

    All sorts of people come to use the range, and it's a continuum from best to worst:

    1. People who are very proficient with firearms, who are adept enough to hit the target every time at whatever speed they shoot, and who could draw from the holster without shooting themselves (or others). These people are at the top of the scale, and may be about a fourth or so of those who use the range.

    2. People who are good enough to hit the target if they don't shoot too fast, but are scary if they try to shoot at any kind of speed. Letting them draw from the holster to shoot is a worrisome thing for people near them. These people represent most who come to the range.

    3. People who are new to shooting, who benefit the most from one-on-one help. As a range officer, I really enjoy helping people like these to get started.

    So why not let the experts do their own thing, and just have rules for those in group two or three? Because the group two people see the group one people fast firing or drawing from the holster to shoot, and they think they can too, and people get hurt that way. So, despite how good you may be, or think you may be, the rules have to be followed by everyone.

    It's a scary thing sometimes being a range safety officer. Almost every RSO on our range has had LOADED guns pointed at them... often. This sometimes makes RSO's irritable, so you might cut them a little slack.

    Lastly, there are people who take great delight in deliberately shooting at the wooden frames or other things-that-they-shouldn't-shoot, who don't care what damage they cause. Thankfully, there are few of those. Still, there are some, and it's enough that range repair is a CONSTANT chore.

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    UtahRSO wrote:
    The range I volunteer at discourages fast firing (one shot per second is the rule), and drawing from the holster. I wish it could be otherwise. I wish our range was set up to be an IDPA-friendly situation. But it's not.

    All sorts of people come to use the range, and it's a continuum from best to worst:

    1. People who are very proficient with firearms, who are adept enough to hit the target every time at whatever speed they shoot, and who could draw from the holster without shooting themselves (or others). These people are at the top of the scale, and may be about a fourth or so of those who use the range.

    2. People who are good enough to hit the target if they don't shoot too fast, but are scary if they try to shoot at any kind of speed. Letting them draw from the holster to shoot is a worrisome thing for people near them. These people represent most who come to the range.

    3. People who are new to shooting, who benefit the most from one-on-one help. As a range officer, I really enjoy helping people like these to get started.

    So why not let the experts do their own thing, and just have rules for those in group two or three? Because the group two people see the group one people fast firing or drawing from the holster to shoot, and they think they can too, and people get hurt that way. So, despite how good you may be, or think you may be, the rules have to be followed by everyone.

    It's a scary thing sometimes being a range safety officer. Almost every RSO on our range has had LOADED guns pointed at them... often. This sometimes makes RSO's irritable, so you might cut them a little slack.

    Lastly, there are people who take great delight in deliberately shooting at the wooden frames or other things-that-they-shouldn't-shoot, who don't care what damage they cause. Thankfully, there are few of those. Still, there are some, and it's enough that range repair is a CONSTANT chore.
    Then why not have qualifications classes and if you can ptove you can do it, then you are qualified and allowed to. You can't pass the test, then you can't. You get a special license to ride a motorcycle or drive an 18 wheeler, so people accept that. Why not levels of shooters. It also gives them something to shoot (pardon the pun) for. I don't think most people, regardless of practice will ever be experts. But let them try.

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