Why OC?

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I found this site about 2 weeks ago and to be honest I joined so I could voice my opinion to you. I cannot understand why you choose to OC. I am a strong supporter of the RKBA but I feel that people who chose to OC are going to hurt gun owners everywhere. They way some of you protest and draw attention to yourself is just going to cause the public to panic. I have a CFP and I have been carrying for more than 10 years. The element of suprise is the best defense to an attacker.

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Umm...oK thank you for your opinion. Why don't you join a CC forum if that is what you support.

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CCarry wrote:

I found this site about 2 weeks ago and to be honest I joined so I could voice my opinion to you. I cannot understand why you choose to OC. I am a strong supporter of the RKBA but I feel that people who chose to OC are going to hurt gun owners everywhere. They way some of you protest and draw attention to yourself is just going to cause the public to panic. I have a CFP and I have been carrying for more than 10 years. The element of suprise is the best defense to an attacker.

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Welcome to OCDO!

First of all, good job on arming yourself and being prepared, that is the most important thing!

A couple of quick points -- I will keep them short because they can all be addressed by browsing the "Why Open Carry" section of these forums.

- Surprise is an offensive tactic, not a defensive one.

- The public does not panic at the sight of a gun. Most people who OC have FAR more positive experiences/no encounters than bad experiences. In the almost 6 months I have been OCing I have had dozens of positive experiences and ZERO negative encounters.

- I choose th OC because it exposes the public to firearms in a positive light -- see point above.

- I choose to OC because it deters criminals (all but the very rare psychopaths).

- I choose to OC because it is convenient, comfortable, and perfectly legal.

- I choose to OC because when I CC I am just as much of a target as an unarmed individual of the same awareness level.

- I CC every single day, that method has its purposes. I OC everyday as well.

- Carrying is the number one priority -- method of carry is a distant second.

I hope you are here to inteligently discuss the matter and you are not just a nasty troll!

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thoughtpolice wrote:

ainokea wrote:

Umm...oK thank you for your opinion. Why don't you join a CC forum if that is what you support.

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http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com

You may be more welcome over there.

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He is welcome here as long as things stay civil.

A lot of us here (most?) CC as well as OC. If he wants to civilly debate the merits of each (as has been done countless times before), he is welcome.

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I CC in my kilt on a regular basis! The cargo pockets are plenty big to comfortably carry my full size Springfield XD 45 (4").

Even the inside pockets have room to spare for my KT P3AT in a pocket holster.

This is the one I am wearing (yup, right this second!):
http://www.utilikilts.com/index.php?page_id=31

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ScottyT wrote:

thoughtpolice wrote:

ainokea wrote:

Umm...oK thank you for your opinion. Why don't you join a CC forum if that is what you support.

Click to expand...

http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com

You may be more welcome over there.

Click to expand...

He is welcome here as long as things stay civil.

A lot of us here (most?) CC as well as OC. If he wants to civilly debate the merits of each (as has been done countless times before), he is welcome.

Click to expand...

I am here to be civil. I am just trying toletyou know my feelings on OC.

1) I understand in Utah it is legal to OC.By choosing to OCa lot of people will be scared and they will perceive all guns owner are irresponsible and forcing guns on them.

2) People who OC are more likely to be the first target to attackers because they will know you are armed.

3) Police officer only OC when on duty because of #2.

4) I am concerned that the actions of OCers will make guns owners appear crazy and possibly cause CFP to be a thing of the past.

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ScottyT wrote:

I CC in my kilt on a regular basis! The cargo pockets are plenty big to comfortably carry my full size Springfield XD 45 (4").

Even the inside pockets have room to spare for my KT P3AT in a pocket holster.

This is the one I am wearing (yup, right this second!):
http://www.utilikilts.com/index.php?page_id=31

Click to expand...

A man in a skirt I think I just proved my point about OCers giving a bad public image.

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CCarry wrote:

ScottyT wrote:

thoughtpolice wrote:

ainokea wrote:

Umm...oK thank you for your opinion. Why don't you join a CC forum if that is what you support.

Click to expand...

http://www.utahconcealedcarry.com

You may be more welcome over there.

Click to expand...

He is welcome here as long as things stay civil.

A lot of us here (most?) CC as well as OC. If he wants to civilly debate the merits of each (as has been done countless times before), he is welcome.

Click to expand...

I am here to be civil. I am just trying toletyou know my feelings on OC.

1) I understand in Utah it is legal to OC.By choosing to OCa lot of people will be scared and they will perceive all guns owner are irresponsible and forcing guns on them.

2) People who OC are more likely to be the first target to attackers because they will know you are armed.

3) Police officer only OC when on duty because of #2.

4) I am concerned that the actions of OCers will make guns owners appear crazy and possibly cause CFP to be a thing of the past.

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#1 The experience of hundreds (thousands?) of OCers accross the country has proven that this is not the case -- my own experience has confirmed that.

#2 Absolutely not true in all but the tiniest fraction of violent crimes. Criminals are lazy and WILL avoid armed conflict. In only 6 months I am positive I have deterred violent crime against myself and my wife on two separate occasions.

#3 That depends on the department. There are plenty of LEOs who are allowed to (and do) OC off duty as well.

#4 That is a concern that weighed very heavily on my mind for 2 months before I decided to OC. One of my top priorities while OCing is to put a positive face on gun owners. I feel that so far I have done so. I think this is a great reason why OCers should be organized to promote responsibility, etc...

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CCarry wrote:

ScottyT wrote:

I CC in my kilt on a regular basis! The cargo pockets are plenty big to comfortably carry my full size Springfield XD 45 (4").

Even the inside pockets have room to spare for my KT P3AT in a pocket holster.

This is the one I am wearing (yup, right this second!):
http://www.utilikilts.com/index.php?page_id=31

Click to expand...

A man in a skirt I think I just proved my point about OCers giving a bad public image.

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The only thing I get more compliments on than my weapon is my kilt. Maybe your man bits (sorry for assuming you are male if you aren't) can fit comfortably in pants, but mine don't.

Bifurcated garments are a cruel joke forced upon men by vindictive seamstresses.

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CCarry wrote:

.. cannot understand why you choose to OC...

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Clicky for .PDF: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=1438

...The element of suprise is the best defense to an attacker....

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No, the element of surprise is the best TOOL for an attacker. it is my opinion that most crimes of violence are crimes of opportunity.

Oh, and for what its worth: [size="+1"]Criminals are deterred by the threat of force, lethal if necessary. They are not deterred by displays of kindness or reason, nor is pleading for your life effective. They will, however, run when you pull a gun. [/size][size="+1"]A criminal will be significantly less likely to try and assault or rob a person if they suspect the potential victim may be armed.[/size] ..its a deterrent, period.

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ScottyT wrote:

#1 The experience of hundreds (thousands?) of OCers accross the country has proven that this is not the case -- my own experience has confirmed that.

#2 Absolutely not true in all but the tiniest fraction of violent crimes. Criminals are lazy and WILL avoid armed conflict. In only 6 months I am positive I have deterred violent crime against myself and my wife on two separate occasions.

#3 That depends on the department. There are plenty of LEOs who are allowed to (and do) OC off duty as well.

#4 That is a concern that weighed very heavily on my mind for 2 months before I decided to OC. One of my top priorities while OCing is to put a positive face on gun owners. I feel that so far I have done so. I think this is a great reason why OCers should be organized to promote responsibility, etc...

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I have read the threads on here and I have read about a lot of peoples confrontations that they have be involved in and being pushy with people that are against OC or even LE. That is not going to help anyone.

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ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

CCarry wrote:

.. cannot understand why you choose to OC...

Click to expand...

Clicky for .PDF: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=1438

Oh, and for ehat its worth: [size=+1]Criminals are deterred by the threat of force, lethal if necessary. They are not deterred by displays of kindness or reason, nor is pleading for your life effective. They will, however, run when you pull a gun.[/size]

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OC Robbery:
Here is how things happen in the real world. A guy comes into a 7-11 to rob it gun in hand. Sees customer with gun on hip. Shoots customer with gun on hip and then turns and runs away. OCer dead bad guy alive.

CC Robbery:

A guy comes into 7-11 gun in hand. Customer hits the ground. Turns gun on clerk to demand money. CCer pulls out gun and shoots robber because robber assumed it was a poor defenseless person. Robber dead CC alive.

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CCarry wrote:

ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

CCarry wrote:

.. cannot understand why you choose to OC...

Click to expand...

Clicky for .PDF: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=1438

Oh, and for ehat its worth: [size="+1"]Criminals are deterred by the threat of force, lethal if necessary. They are not deterred by displays of kindness or reason, nor is pleading for your life effective. They will, however, run when you pull a gun.[/size]

Click to expand...

OC Robbery:
Here is how things happen in the real world. A guy comes into a 7-11 to rob it gun in hand. Sees customer with gun on hip. Shoots customer with gun on hip and then turns and runs away. OCer dead bad guy alive.

CC Robbery:

A guy comes into 7-11 gun in hand. Customer hits the ground. Turns gun on clerk to demand money. CCer pulls out gun and shoots robber because robber assumed it was a poor defenseless person. Robber dead CC alive.

Click to expand...

lemme get this straight: You think that if a criminal, with the INTENT to commit a crime, sees an OCer ( not knowing if they are a cop or not) will sooner shoot and kill said individual instead of fleeing or never even entering the store in the first place?

dude..life is full of chances: and I'm adding 16 more 'chances' to/on my hip.

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CCarry wrote:

ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

CCarry wrote:

.. cannot understand why you choose to OC...

Click to expand...

Clicky for .PDF: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=1438

Oh, and for ehat its worth: [size="+1"]Criminals are deterred by the threat of force, lethal if necessary. They are not deterred by displays of kindness or reason, nor is pleading for your life effective. They will, however, run when you pull a gun.[/size]

Click to expand...

OC Robbery:
Here is how things happen in the real world. A guy comes into a 7-11 to rob it gun in hand. Sees customer with gun on hip. Shoots customer with gun on hip and then turns and runs away. OCer dead bad guy alive.

CC Robbery:

A guy comes into 7-11 gun in hand. Customer hits the ground. Turns gun on clerk to demand money. CCer pulls out gun and shoots robber because robber assumed it was a poor defenseless person. Robber dead CC alive.

Click to expand...

Most robbers aren't looking for a murder charge as well. If they are, then you are right, but they would also just take out any witnesses as well (before you can draw from CC or OC).

A more likely scenario would be would be robber walks in and sees someone OC, he turns tail and goes to another store or comes back later.

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CCarry wrote:

ProtectedBy9mm wrote:

CCarry wrote:

.. cannot understand why you choose to OC...

Click to expand...

Clicky for .PDF: http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/attachment.php?id=1438

Oh, and for ehat its worth: [size="+1"]Criminals are deterred by the threat of force, lethal if necessary. They are not deterred by displays of kindness or reason, nor is pleading for your life effective. They will, however, run when you pull a gun.[/size]

Click to expand...

OC Robbery:
Here is how things happen in the real world. A guy comes into a 7-11 to rob it gun in hand. Sees customer with gun on hip. Shoots customer with gun on hip and then turns and runs away. OCer dead bad guy alive.

CC Robbery:

A guy comes into 7-11 gun in hand. Customer hits the ground. Turns gun on clerk to demand money. CCer pulls out gun and shoots robber because robber assumed it was a poor defenseless person. Robber dead CC alive.

Click to expand...

Real world OC (based on actual experience of those who practice it, not just theories by those who have never done it):

BG enters 7/11 with gun in waistband, sees armed resistance inside (OCer), decides to look for easier prey, or goes home and realizes the need to pursue a different path before he gets his gangsta ass killed.

CC:

BG enters 7/11, sees no resistance, proceeds with armed robbery. CCer starts shooting, bullet penetrates BGs shoulder, hits clerk in the face, killing him instantly. BG turns and returns fire, stray bullets riddle the store and the cars in the parking lot. Multiple casualties which hopefully include BG.



OC DETERS CRIME. That's a fact established by those who OC, as well as those who know/work with violent offenders.


Thoughtpolice: Both CC and OC do have their place, you are right and I do both everyday!