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Thread: My first "official" OC trip

  1. #1
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    I've been OC'ing in the car to and from work and when getting gas (often at 4am:shock:, who wouldn't want a gun), and wearing it around the house. But today was my first time at OC'ing into a store.

    I had to go to Lowe's for some stuff for work. I was dressed in a white t-shirt with company logo front and back, jeans and work boots. Also had my multitool on my belt opposite my gun and my keycard clipped to my pocket next to my gun. As I drove up to Lowe's, the manager and another employee were doing something with the grills right at the front entrance and I figured he would immediately see the gun and tell me to leave it in the car. He looked my way as I walked in and wished me good morning. I went about my business, all the time expecting an employee to at least shadow me, but the only other employee I saw simply said "good morning". He definitely saw my gun, and walked right by as if it were the most normal thing in the world (as it should be).

    At the register, I tried to be extra friendly and chatted with the cashier about the dilemma I was trying to solve at work (hanging a whiteboard on sheetrock that is glued to a structural steel beam). Again, she definitely saw my gun for sure as I reached around it for my wallet. Two Hispanic gentlemen had also walked up at this moment and when I reached for my wallet and had my gun sticking out there, they suddenly backed up a little and began speaking in hushed tones.

    Only other thing interesting was that as I was leaving, I got proof positive that people are more polite around guns. As I was walking out of the store, a car came barreling in from the street, narrowly missing a couple of people going into the garden area. I stopped as he got near me and prepared to jump out of the way, but no need. When he got about 50ft from me, he suddenly slammed on the brakes. Full anti-lock nosedive. I motioned him to go on by, but he just sat there and waited patiently for me to cross.

  2. #2
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    Yep that is how it is for the most part when OCing, lots of people do not even care that you are armed. I have tried many time to show this, that the positive encountersfar out number the negative encounters. Some of us here has never had a bad experience, and some have only had 1-2 bad encounters while OC.Just keep on doing what you do.

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    Congrats on no longer being an Alabama OC virgin. It's a good feeling.

    I OC in stores with confidence, but I have never been spotted by a police officer. While it's perfectly legal, we all know that arrests do happen.

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    I had an interesting talk earlier today with a woman at work who has lived most of her life in the heart of the hood. When a centrifuge exploded a couple of weeks ago (sounds very much like a 12ga) she instinctively hit the floor.

    So I asked her what she thought the average thug's reaction would be to seeing someone OC'ing. She said without doubt that he would find somebody else. I told her what some folks say about making yourself more of a target, and that the guy would sneak up on you and try to take your gun. She said no way, too much chance of getting shot. I said what about if he was jacked up on drugs, and she said he might go after you then but no more so than if you weren't obviously carrying. She said if he's so jacked up he attacks somebody who has a gun, he's to jacked up to think about grabbing a gun.

    She also said that when she was a kid (20yrs ago?) she remembers that lots of people carried guns openly. SHe said just about every male in her life had a gun on their hip all the time. She doesn't know why they stopped carrying, but she said there weren't as many shootings going on then.

    Another woman at work confessed that she would feel more secure if she were at the mall and saw some folks with guns on their hip. She said," Its not the ones carrying openly that you have to worry about. The bad guys HIDE their guns."

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    I also OC for the first time today was on the way home from the range so stopped by the video store. I got no strtange looks or comments from the others inside and the clerk knows me so ............WHOOT

  6. #6
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Now gentleman, go forth and multiply. Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast. Meet like minded people, share experiences and educate, educate.

    That is the power of OCing - you feel liberated and the more of it, the better the acceptance.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Now gentleman, go forth and multiply.* Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast.* Meet like minded people, share experiences and educate, educate.

    That is the power of OCing - you feel liberated and the more of it, the better the acceptance.

    *** *** Yata hey
    Have any more of that kool-aid? You make it sound like a religion!

    But yeah, OC is pretty handy.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Now gentleman, go forth and multiply. Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast. Meet like minded people, share experiences and educate, educate.

    That is the power of OCing - you feel liberated and the more of it, the better the acceptance.

    Yata hey
    Have any more of that kool-aid? You make it sound like a religion!

    But yeah, OC is pretty handy.
    My master, Rt. Rev. John Moses Browning commanded me to do so.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    lol

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast.
    Knowing local law enforcement, we'd probably get charged under the loosely-written demonstration carry law.

  11. #11
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    HungSquirrel wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast.
    Knowing local law enforcement, we'd probably get charged under the loosely-written demonstration carry law.
    You have full state preemption and 18 to OC.
    http://opencarry.org/al.html

    If you don't exercise your rights, you will lose the ground you have gained.

    Come to Richmond, Va. or NOVA and we'll show you just how good it can be.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  12. #12
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    HungSquirrel wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Attend or plan a local dinner or small breakfast.
    Knowing local law enforcement, we'd probably get charged under the loosely-written demonstration carry law.
    You have full state preemption and 18 to OC.
    http://opencarry.org/al.html

    If you don't exercise your rights, you will lose the ground you have gained.

    Come to Richmond, Va. or NOVA and we'll show you just how good it can be.*

    *** ** Yata hey
    Except it's illegal to participate in a public demonstration with a firearm. What's a 'public demonstration' is pretty specific but the LEOs don't care. To them any group getting together for anything is a 'public demonstration'. Charge 'em and let the courts sort it out.

  13. #13
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Can you provide us with a link to the appropriate section in your statutes on firearms and public demonstration.

    I mean if eating together is a "demonstration" what is going to the range with a group of friends? :shock:

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  14. #14
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    Can you provide us with a link to the appropriate section in your statutes on firearms and public demonstration.

    I mean if eating together is a "demonstration" what is going to the range with a group of friends? :shock:

    Yata hey
    I don't see how it could apply...but then, LE may well take the "let the courts sort it out" view....

    Section 13A-11-59 Possession of firearms by persons participating in, attending, etc., demonstrations at public places.

    (a) For the purposes of this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this subsection, except in those instances where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:

    (1) DEMONSTRATION. Demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking or marching, holding of vigils and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. Such term shall not include casual use of property by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

    (2) FIREARM. Any pistol, rifle, shotgun or firearm of any kind, whether loaded or not.

    (3) LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. Any duly appointed and acting federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement officer, peace officer or investigating officer, or any military or militia personnel called out or directed by constituted authority to keep the law and order, and any park ranger while acting as such on the grounds of a public park and who is on regular duty and present to actively police and control the demonstration, and who is assigned this duty by his department or agency. Such term does not include a peace officer on strike or a peace officer not on duty.

    (4) PUBLIC PLACE. Any place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment or other lawful purpose, but does not necessarily mean a place devoted solely to the uses of the public. Such term shall include the front or immediate area or parking lot of any store, shop, restaurant, tavern, shopping center or other place of business. Such term shall also include any public building, the grounds of any public building, or within the curtilage of any public building, or in any public parking lot, public street, right-of-way, sidewalk right-of-way, or within any public park or other public grounds.

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

    (c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

    (d) Any person violating any of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished as provided by law.

    (Acts 1979, No. 79-455, p. 743; Code 1975, §13-6-131.)

    Edited for formatting

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    Comp-tech wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    Can you provide us with a link to the appropriate section in your statutes on firearms and public demonstration.

    I mean if eating together is a "demonstration" what is going to the range with a group of friends? :shock:

    Yata hey
    I don't see how it could apply...but then, LE may well take the "let the courts sort it out" view....

    Section 13A-11-59 Possession of firearms by persons participating in, attending, etc., demonstrations at public places.

    (a) For the purposes of this section, the following words and phrases shall have the meanings respectively ascribed to them in this subsection, except in those instances where the context clearly indicates a different meaning:

    (1) DEMONSTRATION. Demonstrating, picketing, speechmaking or marching, holding of vigils and all other like forms of conduct which involve the communication or expression of views or grievances engaged in by one or more persons, the conduct of which has the effect, intent or propensity to draw a crowd or onlookers. Such term shall not include casual use of property by visitors or tourists which does not have an intent or propensity to attract a crowd or onlookers.

    (2) FIREARM. Any pistol, rifle, shotgun or firearm of any kind, whether loaded or not.

    (3) LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER. Any duly appointed and acting federal, state, county or municipal law enforcement officer, peace officer or investigating officer, or any military or militia personnel called out or directed by constituted authority to keep the law and order, and any park ranger while acting as such on the grounds of a public park and who is on regular duty and present to actively police and control the demonstration, and who is assigned this duty by his department or agency. Such term does not include a peace officer on strike or a peace officer not on duty.

    (4) PUBLIC PLACE. Any place to which the general public has access and a right to resort for business, entertainment or other lawful purpose, but does not necessarily mean a place devoted solely to the uses of the public. Such term shall include the front or immediate area or parking lot of any store, shop, restaurant, tavern, shopping center or other place of business. Such term shall also include any public building, the grounds of any public building, or within the curtilage of any public building, or in any public parking lot, public street, right-of-way, sidewalk right-of-way, or within any public park or other public grounds.

    (b) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer, to have in his or her possession or on his or her person or in any vehicle any firearm while participating in or attending any demonstration being held at a public place.

    (c) It shall be unlawful for any person, other than a law enforcement officer as defined in subsection (a) of this section, to have in his or her possession or about his or her person or in any vehicle at a point within 1,000 feet of a demonstration at a public place, any firearm after having first been advised by a law enforcement officer that a demonstration was taking place at a public place and after having been ordered by such officer to remove himself or herself from the prescribed area until such time as he or she no longer was in possession of any firearm. This subsection shall not apply to any person in possession of or having on his or her person any firearm within a private dwelling or other private building or structure.

    (d) Any person violating any of the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall be punished as provided by law.

    (Acts 1979, No. 79-455, p. 743; Code 1975, §13-6-131.)

    Edited for formatting
    I do not live there but the way I read this, an arrest for a small group peaceably eating out while OCing and charged under the above ought to be good for at least a new loaded pick-up after attorney's fees for each.

    Somehow you need an Attorney's General opinion - absenting that I guess it will take that high dollar judgement to change a few attitudes.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  16. #16
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    AGO on what?....we have an AGO and several cases on OC.



  17. #17
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    I think he means an AGO specifically regarding clarification of the demonstration statute.

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    HungSquirrel wrote:
    I think he means an AGO specifically regarding clarification of the demonstration statute.
    Was referring specifically to "public demonstration" while doing nothing more than eating - for that matter you ought to be able to have a "meeting" while OCing.

    Have to admit that I am not up on all of the nuances of Alabama statutes but I am trying to get more current - may be visiting next summer and definitely would like to OC and eat with friends.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Good job! It only gets easier from here. I think I'm to the point now its so natural that I don't notice if people notice... if that makes sense. I'll get the occasional inquiry, but that's about it.

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    pro2A wrote:
    Good job! It only gets easier from here. I think I'm to the point now its so natural that I don't notice if people notice... if that makes sense. I'll get the occasional inquiry, but that's about it.
    Fine in Va. & Pa. but apparently not so good in Alabama but please do notice what others are doing where ever you are.

    Cannot imagine going out to eat with a few friends - all of my really good friends OC - and being charged with a violation of public demonstration law. Has this actually happened or is this hypothetical?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Grapeshot wrote:
    pro2A wrote:
    Good job! It only gets easier from here. I think I'm to the point now its so natural that I don't notice if people notice... if that makes sense. I'll get the occasional inquiry, but that's about it.
    Fine in Va. & Pa. but apparently not so good in Alabama but please do notice what others are doing where ever you are.

    Cannot imagine going out to eat with a few friends - all of my really good friends OC - and being charged with a violation of public demonstration law. Has this actually happened or is this hypothetical?

    Yata hey
    Never happened that I'm aware of...and I don't think LE would try and use that statute.
    When OCers here that have been arrested, it has been under 13a-11-52 (carrying a pistol on premises not his own) and/or 13a-11-7 (disorderly conduct)....neither of which apply IMHO

    But then, my opinion doesn't count when being put face down, hand-cuffed, my property seized etc.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Comp-tech wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    pro2A wrote:
    Good job! It only gets easier from here. I think I'm to the point now its so natural that I don't notice if people notice... if that makes sense. I'll get the occasional inquiry, but that's about it.
    Fine in Va. & Pa. but apparently not so good in Alabama but please do notice what others are doing where ever you are.

    Cannot imagine going out to eat with a few friends - all of my really good friends OC - and being charged with a violation of public demonstration law. Has this actually happened or is this hypothetical?

    Yata hey
    Never happened that I'm aware of...and I don't think LE would try and use that statute.
    When OCers here that have been arrested, it has been under 13a-11-52 (carrying a pistol on premises not his own) and/or 13a-11-7 (disorderly conduct)....neither of which apply IMHO

    But then, my opinion doesn't count when being put face down, hand-cuffed, my property seized etc.
    That's the same church - different pew.

    Aren't any of these people filing/winning suits - payouts =education !

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    That's the same church - different pew.

    Aren't any of these people filing/winning suits - payouts =education !

    Yata hey
    None that I'm aware of......

    One of the members here was arrested and got the charges dropped using a pro-bono lawyer....but I don't think the lawyer was interested in filing a case without $
    IIRC, they had him sign something saying he wouldn't sue in return for dropping charges, or something along those lines.



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    Release dismissal agreements are kind-of enforceable. In this case it probably wouldn't be as the agreement was obviously made to protect an officer from wrongful arrest charges.

    IIRC a release dismissal agreement needs to meet specific requirements to be binding. Covering a police officer's ass is not one of them. It's basically supposed to only be used when someone has been legitimately charged with an actual crime and could probably win in criminal court, but the prosecutor doesn't have the time to prosecute, and also doesn't want to get sued.

    My guess is that if Mathis really wanted to go after the officer, a higher court would disregard the agreement.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Comp-tech wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    That's the same church - different pew.

    Aren't any of these people filing/winning suits - payouts =education !

    Yata hey
    None that I'm aware of......

    One of the members here was arrested and got the charges dropped using a pro-bono lawyer....but I don't think the lawyer was interested in filing a case without $
    IIRC, they had him sign something saying he wouldn't sue in return for dropping charges, or something along those lines.



    Find an attorney that will take it on a contingency basis - got to be one !

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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