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Thread: Open Carry LE involved "incident" Beaverton Shell Station Cornell/158th/26

  1. #1
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    Shell Station
    1220 NW Waterhouse Ave
    Beaverton, OR 97006

    Was going to Mt. Hood to shoot and such, on the way I stopped at the Shell station to get gas- Left, was on the road to Mt. Hood when...

    I Received a call on my cell from an officer stating that somebody reported a man with a gun at the gas station. "Were you carrying a gun at the gas station?"
    He said, "8 squad cars were sent to the area..."
    and...
    "You're not doing anything illegal, but you will cause alarm. We will end up *I forget specifically, but a word directly implying to knock me down* you on the ground."

    Curiously, he never asked if I had a permit until I mentioned I would never open carry unless I was legally permitted to, and referencing the loaded firearms ban in Beaverton. He then asked me, "So you do have a license?" I must say I was pleased with the way the officer asked, and how he said it.

    Honestly though, regardless of what was said, the officer was friendly and I do appreciate his courtesy and how he gave me his news and his point of view.

    So I ask this... A well dressed, clean cut white male with a tasteful German import vehicle... Rob a gas station?
    Please, the callers intentions are obvious.

    Also, I spoke with a Hillsboro Police friend and he stated that even if you "piss off an officer, you're likely to get your license revoked" Most seriously, and I really hope to get this question answered - If I was to get called like this for carrying regardless of whether I was doing anything wrong or even suspicious, as in just the daily chores and routine things around town - is it a possibility that my license will be revoked? If this is a possibility, I absolutely cannot take that risk - and must cease open carrying.
    So if I am regularly being called on, is this basis for revokation?

    By the way, first time I have ever actually OCed the weapon.

  2. #2
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    An officer called you on your cell phone? I assume this is a friend of yours?:?

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    Called another line first, an associate of mine gave him the number.

    The police officer friend from Hillsboro that I spoke to afterward, is a police officer.
    He had nothing to do with this - and I called him about an hour later.

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    I don't get it? Someone called in a MWAG and gave them your plates? LEO ran the plates, got a phone number, called it and got your cell and called it? If he did all of that he didn't see your CHL come up tagged on your license and then asked you if you had a CHL? If he was that far in your records he had to of seen you had a CHL and then he should have known you were legal wherever you wanted to OC.

    "Honestly though, regardless of what was said, the officer was friendly and I do appreciate his courtesy and how he gave me his news and his point of view."

    LEO is paid to enforce laws, not editorialize, and you did nothing illegal.

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    Sorry, I'm having a heck of a time following how and why a police officer called you. Did someone get your license number, give it the police, then they called your home, and someone there gave the cops your cell number or something?

    It would freak me the hell out if I'm going down the road and cops call me to ask me if I was carrying a gun... :shock:Very big-brotherish.

    As far as revoking it, read ORS 166.293:
    http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html

    My understanding is, you can't get it revoked unless you're arrested fora crime that would have disqualified you from getting the License to begin with. If you're not charged, then they have to give it back in 30 days. I am not a lawyer, so read for yourself or consult an attorney.

    Remember, talking to the police isn't going to help you...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    ...Orygunner...

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    Orygunner wrote:
    Sorry, I'm having a heck of a time following how and why a police officer called you. Did someone get your license number, give it the police, then they called your home, and someone there gave the cops your cell number or something?



    Remember, talking to the police isn't going to help you...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    ...Orygunner...
    To the first part of your quote,
    An associate of mine received a call, and forwarded my cell number to the officer. Why they had to call me is ridiculous, why he said that they sent 8 squad cars is even more ridiculous. Does anybody else in Beaverton have experience open carrying on a regular basis? I never see it, ever.


    Regarding the second half of your quote,
    Indeed, I've watched a few really, really long lectures - and I appreciate the reminded. I most definitely thought of this when I spoke with him.

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    No NAU wrote:
    I don't get it? Someone called in a MWAG and gave them your plates? LEO ran the plates, got a phone number, called it and got your cell and called it? If he did all of that he didn't see your CHL come up tagged on your license and then asked you if you had a CHL? If he was that far in your records he had to of seen you had a CHL and then he should have known you were legal wherever you wanted to OC.

    "Honestly though, regardless of what was said, the officer was friendly and I do appreciate his courtesy and how he gave me his news and his point of view."

    LEO is paid to enforce laws, not editorialize, and you did nothing illegal.
    To your first statement,
    I've heard that it doesn't show up, but I forgot to verify this with my Hillsboro contact, and I was actually meaning to ask him this but I must have forgotten.

    " (b) The sheriff may enter into an agreement with the Department of Transportation to produce the concealed handgun license. (6) No civil or criminal liability shall attach to the sheriff or any authorized representative engaged in the receipt and review of, or an investigation connected with, any application for, or in the issuance, denial or revocation of, any license under ORS 166.291 to 166.295 as a result of the lawful performance of duties under those sections.
    (7) Immediately upon acceptance of an application for a concealed handgun license, the sheriff shall enter the applicant’s name into the Law Enforcement Data System indicating that the person is an applicant for a concealed handgun license or is a license holder."

    Law Enforcement Data System?



    To the second statement regarding the officer,
    I was happy with the officer, and he was quite friendly. He did give a point of view, not editorialize, when he stated how he would respond to calls like this.

    Although I may disagree, I listened and felt good about how he said it. He wasn't Goddy, wasn't trying to lecture me, just sharing how he feels, and I listened without causing an argument. He was fairly eloquent and well spoken, but you could tell he just wasn't the type to support open carry. I was glad that he emphasized that I was absolutely not doing anything wrong, he was happy that I listened, but as I said, he definitely didn't want to lecture me.
    That's what I was referring to, hopefully it didn't come off as negative banter.

    ps I apologize for the double post, I was going to copy & paste the two quotes together but forgot before I sent.

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    CharlesAFerg wrote:
    Orygunner wrote:
    Sorry, I'm having a heck of a time following how and why a police officer called you. Did someone get your license number, give it the police, then they called your home, and someone there gave the cops your cell number or something?



    Remember, talking to the police isn't going to help you...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

    ...Orygunner...
    To the first part of your quote,
    An associate of mine received a call, and forwarded my cell number to the officer. Why they had to call me is ridiculous, why he said that they sent 8 squad cars is even more ridiculous. Does anybody else in Beaverton have experience open carrying on a regular basis? I never see it, ever.


    Regarding the second half of your quote,
    Indeed, I've watched a few really, really long lectures - and I appreciate the reminded. I most definitely thought of this when I spoke with him.
    the man who owns beaver creek armory open carrys everyday and has for years and years.

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    the man who owns beaver creek armory open carrys everyday and has for years and years.
    Hillsboro is more tolerant...

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    I actually e-mailed Beaverton PD about this and here is the response I got:

    Mr. Xxxxxxxxxxx,



    Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of this law. However, you need to be aware that even with your CHL, you cannot carry your weapon into any government building (i.e., courthouse, city hall, social security office, etc.) or school.



    Thank you.

    I e-mailed them again regarding schools and state owned/operated buildings such as city hall, but still haven't gotten a reply from that one yet.

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    DenWin wrote:
    I actually e-mailed Beaverton PD about this and here is the response I got:

    Mr. Xxxxxxxxxxx,



    Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of this law. However, you need to be aware that even with your CHL, you cannot carry your weapon into any government building (i.e., courthouse, city hall, social security office, etc.) or school.



    Thank you.

    I e-mailed them again regarding schools and state owned/operated buildings such as city hall, but still haven't gotten a reply from that one yet.
    Precisely, but a gas station is a whole other story.

    I'm curious as to the extent of an officers authority to slap something like public disturbance or disturbing the peace if they make it sound as such, regardless of if I'm just going in and paying for gas like I always have without my weapon, and without a second thought. Of course, it's better not to talk to police if they do show up, because there is always the possibility of you talking yourself into your own predicament.

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    From what I have understood from most of the Oregon thread, as long as you don't clear leather you are good in Oregon. Also, don't point it out, especially if you're argueing, because then THAT could be considered menacing.

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    DenWin wrote:
    From what I have understood from most of the Oregon thread, as long as you don't clear leather you are good in Oregon. Also, don't point it out, especially if you're argueing, because then THAT could be considered menacing.
    Of course.

    Law enforcement would likely see it as a precursor to an imminent confrontation, and pummel you to the deck.

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    CharlesAFerg wrote:
    Of course.

    Law enforcement would likely see it as a precursor to an imminent confrontation, and pummel you to the deck.
    Exactly, and getting pummelled by LEO is never a good thing for the following reasons:

    1 - They have collapsible batons, which hurt

    2 - They have pistols, which also hurt

    3 - They have a badge which they may believe gives them authority to use such force

    4 - They have a radio to call other LEOs with items 1, 2, and 3

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    DenWin wrote:

    Exactly, and getting pummelled by LEO is never a good thing for the following reasons:

    1 - They have collapsible batons, which hurt

    2 - They have pistols, which also hurt

    3 - They have a badge which they may believe gives them authority to use such force

    4 - They have a radio to call other LEOs with items 1, 2, and 3
    Yes, but I would be cooperative - considering I know this is a risk if I open carry, but as long as it doesn't hurt me legally or hurt my livelyhood by violating my rights and have some bogus charge on my record, I'll have to deal with it while maintaining my vigilance and help the public understand so that these things DON'T happen.

    I'll have to be careful about these kinds of situations.

    Like I said, 8 squad cars to that location, the officer said so himself.
    I'm glad I wasn't there.

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    DenWin wrote:
    CharlesAFerg wrote:
    Of course.

    Law enforcement would likely see it as a precursor to an imminent confrontation, and pummel you to the deck.
    Exactly, and getting pummelled by LEO is never a good thing for the following reasons:

    1 - They have collapsible batons, which hurt

    2 - They have pistols, which also hurt

    3 - They have a badge which they may believe gives them authority to use such force

    4 - They have a radio to call other LEOs with items 1, 2, and 3


    Ah yes, the RODNEY KING SYNDROME...

    Sure strange they'd call you on the cell and quiz you instead of pulling you over.


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    "I have been advised by my cellular provider not to waste minutes talking to police." <click>
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    DenWin wrote:
    I actually e-mailed Beaverton PD about this and here is the response I got:

    Mr. Xxxxxxxxxxx,



    Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of this law. However, you need to be aware that even with your CHL, you cannot carry your weapon into any government building (i.e., courthouse, city hall, social security office, etc.) or school.



    Thank you.

    I e-mailed them again regarding schools and state owned/operated buildings such as city hall, but still haven't gotten a reply from that one yet.
    Hey,

    Forward me this email please. I have a training bulletin from BPD that says otherwise. Social Security is unlawful, but city hall is not. Please forward me an unedited email to me so I can email this person along with BPD.

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    CharlesAFerg wrote:
    DenWin wrote:

    Exactly, and getting pummelled by LEO is never a good thing for the following reasons:

    1 - They have collapsible batons, which hurt

    2 - They have pistols, which also hurt

    3 - They have a badge which they may believe gives them authority to use such force

    4 - They have a radio to call other LEOs with items 1, 2, and 3
    Yes, but I would be cooperative - considering I know this is a risk if I open carry, but as long as it doesn't hurt me legally or hurt my livelyhood by violating my rights and have some bogus charge on my record, I'll have to deal with it while maintaining my vigilance and help the public understand so that these things DON'T happen.

    I'll have to be careful about these kinds of situations.

    Like I said, 8 squad cars to that location, the officer said so himself.
    I'm glad I wasn't there.
    Glad we're on the same page

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    DenWin wrote:
    I actually e-mailed Beaverton PD about this and here is the response I got:

    Mr. Xxxxxxxxxxx,



    Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of this law. However, you need to be aware that even with your CHL, you cannot carry your weapon into any government building (i.e., courthouse, city hall, social security office, etc.) or school.



    Thank you.

    I e-mailed them again regarding schools and state owned/operated buildings such as city hall, but still haven't gotten a reply from that one yet.
    Hey,

    Forward me this email please. I have a training bulletin from BPD that says otherwise. Social Security is unlawful, but city hall is not. Please forward me an unedited email to me so I can email this person along with BPD.
    I'll get the e-mail sent to you. If you could, I'd like to take a look at the BPD training bulletin. Either a post, link, or just attatch and send a reply to my e-mail. Thanks.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Ms. Ray,

    My name is Lonnie Wilson, and I was forwarded this email from DenWin (name redacted). My apologies for contacting you out of the blue, but the statement needed an immediate correction.

    In January of 2007, I met with Deputy City Attorney Bill Kirby in person. We had discussed the law specifically as applicable to public buildings, and we had came to the conclusion that those who are licensed under ORS 166.291 are exempt from the law. As a courtesy, I am CC'ing him the email as well as to Captain Tim Roberts, who was my contact at the Beaverton PD on this issue.

    Here is the law on this subject:

    Definition of public building and court facility:

    (4) “Public building” means a hospital, a capitol building, a public or private school, as defined in ORS 339.315, a college or university, a city hall or the residence of any state official elected by the state at large, and the grounds adjacent to each such building. The term also includes that portion of any other building occupied by an agency of the state or a municipal corporation, as defined in ORS 297.405, other than a court facility.

    (2) “Court facility” means a courthouse or that portion of any other building occupied by a circuit court, the Court of Appeals, the Supreme Court or the Oregon Tax Court or occupied by personnel related to the operations of those courts, or in which activities related to the operations of those courts take place.

    166.370 Possession of firearm or dangerous weapon in public building or court facility; exceptions; discharging firearm at school. (1) Any person who intentionally possesses a loaded or unloaded firearm or any other instrument used as a dangerous weapon, while in or on a public building, shall upon conviction be guilty of a Class C felony.

    Subsection 3, contains exemptions for certain persons. Let's go into the exemptions:

    (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to:

    (a) A sheriff, police officer, other duly appointed peace officers or a corrections officer while acting within the scope of employment.

    (b) A person summoned by a peace officer to assist in making an arrest or preserving the peace, while the summoned person is engaged in assisting the officer.

    (c) An active or reserve member of the military forces of this state or the United States, when engaged in the performance of duty.

    (d) A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun.

    (e) A person who is authorized by the officer or agency that controls the public building to possess a firearm or dangerous weapon in that public building.


    Subsection 2, which deals with carrying a loaded or unloaded firearms in court facilities, are NOT exempt via concealed handgun license. Public buildings, however, are exempted by CHL. I also point out that under Oregon law, "courts" insofar as the state weapons prohibition does NOT include the city courthouse or courtroom. A city judge MIGHT (again, I emphasize might because I don't have good understanding of a city judge's power) have the ability to prohibit weapons in his courtroom under the provisions of contempt, but such prohibitions MUST be limited to his courtroom and cannot be used as a wedge to ban the possession of all firearms throughout the public building where his courtroom is housed.

    Federal buildings (such as social security offices) and federal courts are addressed in
    Title 18, United States Code, Section 930. Nearly all persons who carry guns lawfully (those with CHL's since they are required to carry loaded in the City of Beaverton)
    are very aware of these federal restrictions. Those laws are enforced by the United States Marshals and the Federal Protective Service (FPS) as well as the armed security officers that patrol those buildings.

    Bill Kirby and Captain Roberts distributed both a public building training bulletin and loaded carry in public places training bulletin last year. I would suggest emailing Mr. Kirby or Captain Roberts for a copy, so that way misinformation like this doesn't spread around again.

    Regards,

    Lonnie Wilson

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    Looks good, Lonnie. I never knew that in Beaverton having a CHL required me to carry loaded, but what would be the point of having a CHL if you didn't? In any case, nice work. Looks like you've done this before

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    Maybe it's just me, but I'm still unclear as to how the police even got a hold of the FIRST number they called.

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    I would like to be told what prompted the call for MWAG. A holstered weapon is pretty inert and is hardly concern for even bothering to dial a phone. Was it the gas station proprietor, employee or just an overly concerned citizen? If it was the station owners intent to get a dig in at lawfully carried weapons I will not buy gas there again, even if it is the cheapest.



    Also, if more info as to how they got any contact information can be detailed. I would like to hear it. A simple record search of license plates and cold calling on the part of the R/Officer got him to your cell phone? And after knowing that a crime had not been committed, he still took it upon himself to give you a ring? Nice guy, is he running for office or somthing? That is some over the top police work right there.



    It is a plus the officer took it so well, but sounds like it would have been a bit different had you still been on scene when EIGHT cruisers showed up for a MWAG response. I don’t get the stigma of MWAG, unless it has been used in a manner threatening or being waved around in public. Otherwise the law say’s one can carry openly. So why such a big over reaction by police when these calls come in? Can’t a threat assessment be done with the dispatcher to limit the fear for these LEO’s and tickets for false reports to offset the waste of time for responding to frivolous calls.



    I find many of the police in Beaverton to be pretty good Joes. I often wondered what the reaction would be among LEO’s here with this sort of incident. I guess I have my answer now. I am glad it went as smooth as it did for you.







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    Phssthpok wrote:
    Maybe it's just me, but I'm still unclear as to how the police even got a hold of the FIRST number they called.
    Well see you've got it right, the poster below you hasn't got it yet.

    I said that they called another number first.
    Also, the number was restricted, so I didn't pick up the first time. Reason being is that for one, only one of my friends uses this on a regualr basis, and it's quite annoying. I shouldn't even pick up. So I thought it was my friend, and I was in the middle of a conversation already. Anyways, I noticed that he left a voicemail, so I called the non emergency number and requested he call back on my cell phone again.

    Anyways, I wondered how society has gotten this way as to you carry and even the police assume you're a criminal. Of all people, those law enforcement officials who are quite gun friendly from what I've found, still feel like I'm the bad guy from the get go.

    Like I said though, he was great to talk to - but the response (amount of police units that supposedly showed up) should be the true judge of this situation.

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