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Open Carry LE involved "incident" Beaverton Shell Station Cornell/158th/26

DenWin

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murphy2 wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. But carrying a pistol or "firearm" in a "hip holster" is legal in the state of Oregon. Even carrying a Concealed handgun is permitted (without a license)if your going "hunting or fishing".?!!.
You are correct on your reading of the laws, but if a look a little closer, the ORS also gives cities and counties the power to regulate loaded firearms in public places. If you have a CHL then you are exempt from any city or county ordinance that states otherwise. I forget the exact statute number, but that's the gist of it; I believe it was 166.173 or some where around there.
 

murphy2

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Thanks for theinformation. I thought a law was past in Oregon that thelower governmentsunder the state, could not pass a more stringent law than state law.
 

Mike

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murphy2 wrote:
Thanks for theinformation. I thought a law was past in Oregon that thelower governmentsunder the state, could not pass a more stringent law than state law.
I believe that preemption of carry ordinances only applies to concealed permit holders. Lonnie, confirm?
 

Orygunner

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Mike wrote:
murphy2 wrote:
Thanks for theinformation. I thought a law was past in Oregon that thelower governmentsunder the state, could not pass a more stringent law than state law.
I believe that preemption of carry ordinances only applies to concealed permit holders. Lonnie, confirm?

ORS 166.170 preempts all local ordinances, however, 166.173 grants authority to city or county governments (NOT state agencies) to regulate posession of loaded firearms in public places, but states LEOs, military & CHL holders are exempt.

So, other than whatever regulatory powers the state grants local governments (Like the loaded firearms statute and I think there's one for allowing cities to regulate pawn shops?), no other public agency in the state can regulate anything regarding firearms.

...I'm not a lawyer, this is my interpretation...
...Orygunner...
 

murphy2

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I believe the military exemption only applies to "official" military duties with an issued weapon. State militia ie. national guard personnel can not carry a loaded firearm on a daily basses. It has to be in the "line of duty". Leo can carry at will on or off duty. Thanks again for the information.
 

Big Del

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I talked to a retired LEO that was from Beaverton and was amazed when he told me that he would arrest a MWAG. Then figure out the details later, what a concept. Know one else can get away with this kind manipulation of the law. He was a cheif in Beaverton for years. If this kind of ignorance is at the top think what the street beaters are like.
 

Heartless_Conservative

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Big Del wrote:
I talked to a retired LEO that was from Beaverton and was amazed when he told me that he would arrest a MWAG. Then figure out the details later, what a concept. Know one else can get away with this kind manipulation of the law. He was a cheif in Beaverton for years. If this kind of ignorance is at the top think what the street beaters are like.
I've always been under the impression that the street level LEO's are usually more receptive to armed citizens and self defense than the politically appointed brass whose jobs depend on sucking up to the politicos. Not to say that there isn't a far amount on the lower levels though, plus its the guys walking the beats that are gonna be in a position to point guns at you.
 

Gunslinger

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DenWin wrote:
CharlesAFerg wrote:
Of course.

Law enforcement would likely see it as a precursor to an imminent confrontation, and pummel you to the deck.

Exactly, and getting pummelled by LEO is never a good thing for the following reasons:

1 - They have collapsible batons, which hurt

2 - They have pistols, which also hurt

3 - They have a badge which they may believe gives them authority to use such force

4 - They have a radio to call other LEOs with items 1, 2, and 3
And they have the ability to pay a large punitive damage award in Federal Court. And with injury, may have a nice all expenses paid vacation in Federal Prison. The cops may thing they're above the law; Federal Courts have convinced more than a few of the error in their thinking.
 

CharlesAFerg

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If I was to be arrested, though - isn't this always on my record when somebody does any type of background check? Regardless of if I was doing anything wrong or not.

Also, can they revoke my CHL if I'm OCing and the police receive a MWAG call, even though I'm doing nothing wrong and acting perfectly responsible and normal?
 

grishnav

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CharlesAFerg wrote:
If I was to be arrested, though - isn't this always on my record when somebody does any type of background check? Regardless of if I was doing anything wrong or not.

You can have an arrest records, and even convictions, expunged in Oregon. I'm in the process right now on mine.

Also, can they revoke my CHL if I'm OCing and the police receive a MWAG call, even though I'm doing nothing wrong and acting perfectly responsible and normal?
Oregon law only has 8 or 9 reasons for revocation. If they revoke it for a reason not specified in the law, you'd prevail in court both for reinstatement and attorneys fees.
 

CharlesAFerg

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grishnav wrote:
CharlesAFerg wrote:
If I was to be arrested, though - isn't this always on my record when somebody does any type of background check? Regardless of if I was doing anything wrong or not.

You can have an arrest records, and even convictions, expunged in Oregon. I'm in the process right now on mine.

Also, can they revoke my CHL if I'm OCing and the police receive a MWAG call, even though I'm doing nothing wrong and acting perfectly responsible and normal?
Oregon law only has 8 or 9 reasons for revocation. If they revoke it for a reason not specified in the law, you'd prevail in court both for reinstatement and attorneys fees.
Why would I want to deal with that, as even if it's expunged I wouldn't be surprised if it came up.

Also,
I cannot find these reasons in the statutes, any help here?
 

grishnav

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CharlesAFerg wrote:
grishnav wrote:
CharlesAFerg wrote:
If I was to be arrested, though - isn't this always on my record when somebody does any type of background check? Regardless of if I was doing anything wrong or not.

You can have an arrest records, and even convictions, expunged in Oregon. I'm in the process right now on mine.

Also, can they revoke my CHL if I'm OCing and the police receive a MWAG call, even though I'm doing nothing wrong and acting perfectly responsible and normal?
Oregon law only has 8 or 9 reasons for revocation. If they revoke it for a reason not specified in the law, you'd prevail in court both for reinstatement and attorneys fees.
Why would I want to deal with that, as even if it's expunged I wouldn't be surprised if it came up.

You wouldn't want to deal with it. :)

But who knows. The police can arrest you for all sorts of things, including stuff you've never thought of or wouldn't think would be illegal.

Also,
I cannot find these reasons in the statutes, any help here?
I answered this question for you, in detail, a couple of weeks ago in a different thread:

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum45/16335.html
 

duhrkoopm

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CharlesAFerg wrote:
No NAU wrote:
I don't get it? Someone called in a MWAG and gave them your plates? LEO ran the plates, got a phone number, called it and got your cell and called it? If he did all of that he didn't see your CHL come up tagged on your license and then asked you if you had a CHL? If he was that far in your records he had to of seen you had a CHL and then he should have known you were legal wherever you wanted to OC.

"Honestly though, regardless of what was said, the officer was friendly and I do appreciate his courtesy and how he gave me his news and his point of view."

LEO is paid to enforce laws, not editorialize, and you did nothing illegal.
To your first statement,
I've heard that it doesn't show up, but I forgot to verify this with my Hillsboro contact, and I was actually meaning to ask him this but I must have forgotten.

" (b) The sheriff may enter into an agreement with the Department of Transportation to produce the concealed handgun license. (6) No civil or criminal liability shall attach to the sheriff or any authorized representative engaged in the receipt and review of, or an investigation connected with, any application for, or in the issuance, denial or revocation of, any license under ORS 166.291 to 166.295 as a result of the lawful performance of duties under those sections.
(7) Immediately upon acceptance of an application for a concealed handgun license, the sheriff shall enter the applicant’s name into the Law Enforcement Data System indicating that the person is an applicant for a concealed handgun license or is a license holder."

Law Enforcement Data System?
Law Enforcement Data System or commonly known as LEDS is a statewide police computer system run by the Oregon State Police, this system is what the dispatcher runs your name through when you get stopped, when they enter your name in the system and you have a CHL, it comes up when the permit was issued, what SO issued the permit, when it expires, and any other information regarding it.


To the second statement regarding the officer,
I was happy with the officer, and he was quite friendly. He did give a point of view, not editorialize, when he stated how he would respond to calls like this.

Although I may disagree, I listened and felt good about how he said it. He wasn't Goddy, wasn't trying to lecture me, just sharing how he feels, and I listened without causing an argument. He was fairly eloquent and well spoken, but you could tell he just wasn't the type to support open carry. I was glad that he emphasized that I was absolutely not doing anything wrong, he was happy that I listened, but as I said, he definitely didn't want to lecture me.
That's what I was referring to, hopefully it didn't come off as negative banter.

ps I apologize for the double post, I was going to copy & paste the two quotes together but forgot before I sent.
 

Fred Kenpo

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Gray Peterson wrote:
DenWin wrote:
I actually e-mailed Beaverton PD about this and here is the response I got:

Mr. Xxxxxxxxxxx,



Yes, you are correct in your interpretation of this law. However, you need to be aware that even with your CHL, you cannot carry your weapon into any government building (i.e., courthouse, city hall, social security office, etc.) or school.



Thank you.

I e-mailed them again regarding schools and state owned/operated buildings such as city hall, but still haven't gotten a reply from that one yet.
Hey,

Forward me this email please. I have a training bulletin from BPD that says otherwise. Social Security is unlawful, but city hall is not. Please forward me an unedited email to me so I can email this person along with BPD.
Actually, someone with an OCHL can enter into a government building and a school. Probably not a good idea to OC, as many LEO's don't understand this. Federal buildings have their own rules (and prohibit carrying), and it is a felony to enter a Courthouse with a weapon (actually, strictly speaking you can, but must surrender the gun at once, and metal detectors makes this your only practical option unless, for some reason, you want to smuggle a gun in). Without an OCHL, you can't enter into any government building, be 1000 ft from a school, and, in some cities and counties, can't open carry (even if that is in your car).
 

Fred Kenpo

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CharlesAFerg wrote:
No NAU wrote:
I don't get it? Someone called in a MWAG and gave them your plates? LEO ran the plates, got a phone number, called it and got your cell and called it? If he did all of that he didn't see your CHL come up tagged on your license and then asked you if you had a CHL? If he was that far in your records he had to of seen you had a CHL and then he should have known you were legal wherever you wanted to OC.

"Law Enforcement Data System?


I've been wondering about the LEDS myself. Others on the website have told me that it exists, and I have no doubt that the computers have a lot of information. But from my experience, it doesn't seem like the entry is automatic or necessarily done. This is an example of cops not knowing even though allegedly your OCHL is write there on the screen with your DL> Also--not every cop has a computer in his car or one with information you'd think they have. I was stopped for not having put my tags on. I asked the cop "Don't you have this information in your computer?" She snippily said "no!" She walked away in a huff and forgot to cite me.

Also, there is something I call auto-steganographizing. What's that,I hear you cry? Steganography (sometimes stenography) is the process of concealing information in noise. (The most common example is putting your coded message in a picture and sending that over e-mail. Useful for political dissenters and those whose mailing lists shouldn't be in government hands.) Well, the government has generated so much data that has to be in these banks, that they dosteganography to themselves. One man I heard about had 10,000 suspicious transactions reports filed on him before the government finally realized he was, in fact, guilty of money laundering.

Be a snowflake in a blizzard, as Bodhisattva, founder of the Shaolin Temple might have said.
 
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