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Thread: Friend got harassed by local sheriff deputies

  1. #1
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    I was waiting for my friend to show up at the Denny's in Winchester. His girlfriend comes to the table and said a couple LEO's were questioning him in the parking lot, so I casually walked up on the conversation.

    He usually open carries a Colt 1911 in a cheap Fobus 'yaqui' slide type of holster. Basically it's mostly exposed, and the other side had two mags. T-shirt tucked in, khaki pants.

    5 cars got called to a disturbance in the parking lot not related to his carrying. Just the wrong place at the wrong time. LEO #1 asks if he's involved in this "thing", he said no. #2 asks why he's open carrying in a "family restaurant". Further opinions were given to include "you have no need to be carrying like that in a restaurant with kids at the tables. They'll just call us back out here and cause a big mess. You really need to leave that in the car when you go out to eat."

    Now, I had to get somewhat involved, and pointed out it's perfectly legal to open carry in Virginia. LEO #1 gets rather huffy and belts out, "I'm quite aware of the law. He doesn't need to be carrying like that in a FAMILY RESTAURANT!!".

    By this time my friend (Army vet by the way) just threw up his hands and said he'd leave it in the trunk and go eat. He left his wallet and CC permit at home by accident, otherwise he'd jus throw his shirt over and call it good.

    I had my Ruger SP101 on me the whole time, under my shirt.:? Go figure.

    Oh, his GF was getting flustered and kept interjecting, "justleave the thing in the car and let's eat". She wasn't helping matters.


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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    "Deputy, is there any reason why I may not go inside to eat?"

    "Deputy, thank you for the conversation. Have a safe day."

    Friend goes inside, sits down and quietly tells his GF to **** and order.

    That's how it should have ended. Unless you wanted to discuss your Army vet friend's lack of enthusiasm for the rights he recently spent time defending. And unless you and/or your friend wished to send a letter to the Sherrif about the behavior of his deputies.

    I understand that "standing up to" officious types can be a major pain in the psyche, as well as an emotional burden to friends, loved ones, bystanders and officious types who feel the need to prove something. Some of us are able to "stand up to" them without discomfort or trepidation, some are able to but experience varying degrees of discomfort and/or trepidation, and others just do not want to be bothered.

    Those that are willing and able to "stand up to" these types are needed by the other two categories - either as role models or as intermediaries.

    The presence of a voice recorder creates a leveling effect of the preceived power of the LEO/officious person and the one "standing up to" their behavior. Basic digital voice recorders cost somewhere in the neighborhood of a box of Winchester White Box ammo - inexpensive and well worth the price. I prefer the open carry (put it out there for all to see you are recording) method of using voice recorders, while others prefer the concealed carry (in the shirt pocket or on a chain around the neck under the shirt) method. YMMV.

    stay safe.

    skidmark


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  3. #3
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    chris in va wrote:
    I was waiting for my friend to show up at the Denny's in Winchester. His girlfriend comes to the table and said a couple LEO's were questioning him in the parking lot, so I casually walked up on the conversation.

    He usually open carries a Colt 1911 in a cheap Fobus 'yaqui' slide type of holster. Basically it's mostly exposed, and the other side had two mags. T-shirt tucked in, khaki pants.

    5 cars got called to a disturbance in the parking lot not related to his carrying. Just the wrong place at the wrong time. LEO #1 asks if he's involved in this "thing", he said no. #2 asks why he's open carrying in a "family restaurant". Further opinions were given to include "you have no need to be carrying like that in a restaurant with kids at the tables. They'll just call us back out here and cause a big mess. You really need to leave that in the car when you go out to eat."

    Now, I had to get somewhat involved, and pointed out it's perfectly legal to open carry in Virginia. LEO #1 gets rather huffy and belts out, "I'm quite aware of the law. He doesn't need to be carrying like that in a FAMILY RESTAURANT!!".

    By this time my friend (Army vet by the way) just threw up his hands and said he'd leave it in the trunk and go eat. He left his wallet and CC permit at home by accident, otherwise he'd jus throw his shirt over and call it good.

    I had my Ruger SP101 on me the whole time, under my shirt.:? Go figure.

    Oh, his GF was getting flustered and kept interjecting, "justleave the thing in the car and let's eat". She wasn't helping matters.
    I would have mentioned (if I would have chosen to engage in such a conversation) that they should look at what happened at Luby's Cafeteria for a reason to carry in a family restaurant.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hennard


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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    on a chain around the neck under the shirt
    +½ ha!
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    What, does the cop think that children don't deserve to be protected from violent criminals or something?

    Emotionalism, pure and simple.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    mvpel wrote:
    What, does the cop think that children don't deserve to be protected from violent criminals or something?

    Emotionalism, pure and simple.
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    I wonder if the officer disarms when he goes into a family restaurant.

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    or tries to make a family...for the restaurant.

  9. #9
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Thanks for telling us this story.. Sounds like "chris in va" (or his friend) should write to fcso@co.frederick.va.us and find out who the deputies were and ask them to be re-trained. They might be the only two in the department that act/feel like that. I always try to give folks the benefit of the doubt FIRST.

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.

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    Won't somebody PLEASE
    think of the children?!?


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    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Deanimator wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0
    I can't even watch that whole video. when he starts limping around and trying to maintain his composure, I just gotta shake my head. Unbelievable. Could happen to anyone, but talk about irony.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Harper1227 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0
    I can't even watch that whole video. when he starts limping around and trying to maintain his composure, I just gotta shake my head. Unbelievable. Could happen to anyone, but talk about irony.
    It's Monty Python grade satire, isn't it? And the leading man doesn't even KNOW it's satire.
    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Harper1227 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0
    I can't even watch that whole video. when he starts limping around and trying to maintain his composure, I just gotta shake my head. Unbelievable. Could happen to anyone, but talk about irony.
    This is the first time I've watched this video all the way through. It's just too painful, embarrassment wise I mean.

    I noticed while he was holding the gun up so the class could see it he appears to have his finger in the trigger guard (hard to tell for sure, bad video quality and black finger against black gun). His finger had to have been so when he went to rack the slide. I guess he was nervous and squeezed the entire grip, including forefinger, while racking it. "Luckily", he was pointing the gun down when it did discharge.

    Keep your bugger hook off the bang switch! I've seen one video and heard one story of people who have shot themselves in the leg or foot while reholstering because their finger was where is wasn't supposed to be. When I instruct friends on draw and fire drills I first hand them the gun and see if they stick their finger in the trigger guard. Either way I don't allow them to reholster until I say they can (after I see where their finger is and remind them to check their finger position), at least until I believe they have a good grip on finger control.

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    Regular Member Deanimator's Avatar
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    Neplusultra wrote:
    I've seen one video and heard one story of people who have shot themselves in the leg or foot while reholstering because their finger was where is wasn't supposed to be.
    One of the contract guards at NASA Lewis in Cleveland shot himself in the leg on the Fairview Park police range in the '90s that way. My idiot Klansman boss declared that that proved that Glocks were "dangerous" and should be confiscated. I told him to try the same thing with an S&W Model 10 revolver. He declined to try it.


    --- Gun control: The theory that 110lb. women have the "right" to fistfight with 210lb. rapists.

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    Your friend needs to watch some ofthe "never talk to the police" videos. NEVER discuss things with unfriendly cops.

    1. Am I being detained or arrested? (They'll probably say no)

    2. So I am free to go? (They'll probably say no)

    3. I want my lawyer.

    These are the only 3 things to come out of my mouth to unfriendly LEO. Just keep repeating those three lines until the answer to #2 becomes a yes. If #1 becomes a yes, then the only thing you say is #3. Do not try and negotiate.

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    Your friendneeds to have a talkwithhisgirl. Tell her to keep her mouth shut andnot to undermine you allin public like that. I certainly wouldn't undermine my wife in front of anyone if she was in the middle of a misunderstanding, whether she was right or wrong.



    Those cops crossed the line. You should have filed a complaint. No one gives a @#$% what those cops' opinions are. They are charged with upholding the law, not talking down to you and intimidating you to waive your civil rights.

    What happened to your friendwas wrong andhe should feel upset about it. Just think of it as a lesson learned and do the right thing next time.


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    Ceasefire NJ Director Brian Miller, NJ.com, August 20, 2009

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    Deanimator wrote:
    trailblazer2003 wrote:
    Deanimator wrote:
    mvpel wrote:
    More to the point, why is HE wearing a gun "around children"?

    As we all know, there's a popular video showing what happens when LEOs display firearms in the presence of children...
    I don't recall this video, can you post a link to it? Thanks.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ufT_6Kgy0
    Ah yes. The, I'm the only one professional enough video. What a dumb ass.

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    Hey Chris, My name is Shane and I live in Winchester.I would be happy to help you in any way that I can.I open carry here all the time and never haveIhad a problem.You need to go to the court house and file a complant with the Sheriff of Frederick County.They were way out of line and it needs to be brought to his attention.



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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Tac-Man wrote:
    You need to go to the court house and file a complant with the Sheriff of Frederick County.They were way out of line and it needs to be brought to his attention.
    +1
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    Tac-Man wrote:
    You need to go to the court house and file a complant with the Sheriff of Frederick County.They were way out of line and it needs to be brought to his attention.
    +1
    +1 Nothing will change if you ignore this and buy that digital recorder!

    Yata hey
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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    must be something about denny's ive had a carry incident there too :P
    http://www.georgiacarry.org/cms/2008/06/10/gco-asks-glynn-county-pd-to-stop-hassling-lawful-carriers/

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    Thanks guys.

    I talked with my friend today. Apparently he overheard LEO #2 give a stern speech to LEO #1 about his harassment. I didn't hear this however and wasn't aware of the reprimand.

    Either way it was unacceptable and I tried to convince him to write a letter to the department, but no go.

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    Here's how I would have ended it...

    Me: Am I breaking the Law?

    LEO: No.

    Me: Am I being detained?

    LEO: No.

    Me: Have a good day and stay safe out there.



    Then I would have walked away.

    Arguing withpeople like that who are doing nothing more than keeping you from going about your business just to push their own personal opinion is only letting them win because they've successfully been able to control you.

    Your friend should have just walked away. He let those guys win by allowing them to temporarily suspend his right to carry.

    I'm disappointed with Winchester if that's the case. When I was up with the Virginia Defense Force helping out at the Apple Blossom Festival, we were deputized so that we could provide security and traffic control. While being briefed on what to do and what to expect, they toldus thatopenly carrying a firearm was legal (which made me grin and made me feel like they had their stuff together).


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