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Thread: Searching for the truth

  1. #1
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    I just finished a search of the Virginia Legislative system and couldn't find what I was looking for. I've read how some states are "stand your ground" states, or have a "castle law", etc, etc.

    Where does one find out what Viginia has. Ie. Is a retreat required, or may I stand my ground, in my house, in the street, anywhere?

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Carry On.

    Ed

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  3. #3
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    buster81 wrote:
    I just finished a search of the Virginia Legislative system and couldn't find what I was looking for. I've read how some states are "stand your ground" states, or have a "castle law", etc, etc.

    Where does one find out what Viginia has. Ie. Is a retreat required, or may I stand my ground, in my house, in the street, anywhere?
    The link Ed gave you above is to a bill that never became law. VA does not have a law, per se, on the books about self-defense. What we do have is strong case law and common law on the matter. VA is a stand your ground state anywhere you are legally present, not just in your home. It is considered "justifiable homicide" if you have to use deadly force while lawfully standing your ground.

    HOWEVER, if you are in any way part of the problem (like having shot the bird at someone, who then attacks you), then you must retreat and indicate you are giving up the fight. If you are then cornered, you can defend yourself. It is considered "excusible homicide" (weaker that "justifiable") if you have to use deadly force.

    Bottom line: you are in good shape if you are completely innocent, otherwise you must retreat and things are dicier. If you are carrying, be the nicest person in the world, and you are fine.

    Hope this helps.


  4. #4
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:
    The link Ed gave you above is to a bill that never became law.
    Thanks for saving me Phil!
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  5. #5
    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    VCDL President wrote:

    Bottom line: you are in good shape if you are completely innocent, otherwise you must retreat and things are dicier. If you are carrying, be the nicest person in the world, and you are fine.

    Hope this helps.


    Always innocent and the nicest person in the world!

    Thanks for the info. I was confused by the whole castle thing and the term stand your ground. Now that I've found OCDO, I have a good resource for OC & CC. Is there a good resource that tells you which states have adopted "stand your ground" and which haven't?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    buster81 wrote:
    Now that I've found OCDO
    Well hopefully you have found (and joined) VCDL too! www.vcdl.org


    Carry On.

    Ed

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  7. #7
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    VCDL President wrote:
    ..... VA does not have a law, per se, on the books about self-defense. What we do have is strong case law and common law on the matter. VA is a stand your ground state anywhere you are legally present, not just in your home. It is considered "justifiable homicide" if you have to use deadly force while lawfully standing your ground.

    HOWEVER, if you are in any way part of the problem (like having shot the bird at someone, who then attacks you), then you must retreat and indicate you are giving up the fight. If you are then cornered, you can defend yourself. It is considered "excusible homicide" (weaker that "justifiable") if you have to use deadly force.

    Bottom line: you are in good shape if you are completely innocent, otherwise you must retreat and things are dicier. If you are carrying, be the nicest person in the world, and you are fine.

    Hope this helps.
    While we're on the subject... how does this compare to Florida's 'castle doctrine'? What can they do that we can't?



  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Florida "Castle Doctrine" Protects the Innocent

    Puts Judiciary on the side of crime victims
    News media gets it completely wrong


    On March 23, 2005, The Florida Senate passed SB-436, the "Castle Doctrine" unanimously, by a vote of 39 YEAS to zero NAYS. They know something about this bill.

    On April 5, The Florida House passed SB-436, "Castle Doctrine" by a vote of 94 YEAS to 20 NAYS, a margin of better than four to one.

    On April 26, Governor Jeb Bush SIGNED SB-436, the "Castle Doctrine" into law (Chapter No. 2005-27) It takes effect on October 1, 2005.

    The news media nationwide started in immediately with its “Gunshine State,” blood in the streets, Dirty Harry, vigilante, irrational mass murder nonsense, mythologies, lies and blatant unethical behavior.

    A great deal of erroneous information has been written, published and spoken about Florida's new "Castle Doctrine" law.

    Claims that the new law will turn Florida into the Wild West are not only an insult to intelligent people but give a patently false portrait of what the bill actually does.

    The Florida "Castle Doctrine" law basically does three things:

    One: It establishes, in law, the presumption that a criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

    Two: It removes the "duty to retreat" if you are attacked in any place you have a right to be. You no longer have to turn your back on a criminal and try to run when attacked. Instead, you may stand your ground and fight back, meeting force with force, including deadly force, if you reasonably believe it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm to yourself or others. [This is an American right repeatedly recognized in Supreme Court gun cases.]

    Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

    It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them.

    In short, it gives rights back to law-abiding people and forces judges and prosecutors who are prone to coddling criminals to instead focus on protecting victims.

    SO -- is this the impression you got from the news? Why not? Aren’t media people impartial purveyors of objective facts, with no bias or spin, faithfully and accurately reporting the news? Everyone who believes that’s an accurate description of the news media please raise your hand. See? No hands go up. Despite their protests otherwise, the news media has, in general, and especially with respect to gun issues, become an outrageous purveyor of agenda-driven nonsense on the dark side of the force.


    Carry On.

    Ed

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  9. #9
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    Armed wrote:
    VCDL President wrote:
    ..... VA does not have a law, per se, on the books about self-defense. What we do have is strong case law and common law on the matter. VA is a stand your ground state anywhere you are legally present, not just in your home. It is considered "justifiable homicide" if you have to use deadly force while lawfully standing your ground.

    HOWEVER, if you are in any way part of the problem (like having shot the bird at someone, who then attacks you), then you must retreat and indicate you are giving up the fight. If you are then cornered, you can defend yourself. It is considered "excusible homicide" (weaker that "justifiable") if you have to use deadly force.

    Bottom line: you are in good shape if you are completely innocent, otherwise you must retreat and things are dicier. If you are carrying, be the nicest person in the world, and you are fine.

    Hope this helps.
    While we're on the subject... how does this compare to Florida's 'castle doctrine'? What can they do that we can't?

    As I understand it Florida had desperately needed a "castle doctrine" law because, unlike VA, they had laws that didn't allow you to stand your ground.

  10. #10
    Regular Member vt357's Avatar
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    ed wrote:
    ...Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

    It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them...
    This is the most important part of the castle doctrine that we are missing. We have the rest through case law. While it would be nice to have the rest put into actual written law, immunity from civil suits is desperately needed.

  11. #11
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    vt357 wrote:
    ed wrote:
    ...Three: It provides that persons using force authorized by law shall not be prosecuted for using such force.

    It also prohibits criminals and their families from suing victims for injuring or killing the criminals who have attacked them...
    This is the most important part of the castle doctrine that we are missing. We have the rest through case law. While it would be nice to have the rest put into actual written law, immunity from civil suits is desperately needed.
    Yes, but we do have to be very careful in how we do, so as to not negate our self-defense protections in a different place or situation from the one we are codifying.

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    EDIT: nevermind I just saw the post that is before mine.

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