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Response for being asked to "cover up"?

T

tricityguy

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I've been digging through back threads, reading a lot of encounter posts to get ideas on useful and appropriate responses. There seems to be a trend with store management asking people to "cover up" for various reasons.

Let me propose a response: "Concealing my firearm without a CWP would be illegal."

Sure, you probably have a permit (I do), but last I checked,

(a) It's perfectly legal to open carry without a permit;
(b) I don't think there are any laws against lying to a store manager.

Certainly, if you're dealing with LEO things are different, but we're talking retail store employees here. Putting it back on them - "What you're asking me to do is illegal" - is a possible solution.

Thoughts?
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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tricityguy wrote:
I've been digging through back threads, reading a lot of encounter posts to get ideas on useful and appropriate responses. There seems to be a trend with store management asking people to "cover up" for various reasons.

Let me propose a response: "Concealing my firearm without a CWP would be illegal."

Sure, you probably have a permit (I do), but last I checked,

(a) It's perfectly legal to open carry without a permit;
(b) I don't think there are any laws against lying to a store manager.

Certainly, if you're dealing with LEO things are different, but we're talking retail store employees here. Putting it back on them - "What you're asking me to do is illegal" - is a possible solution.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Technically you're not lying. You're stating a fact about the law. You never said you didn't have a CPL (and it's CPL, not CWP... if the manager knows that and you say it wrong, they'll think you're just some punk).

BUT, you're better off just saying "I'd prefer not to, thanks." and if they ask you to leave if you don't, then ask for a written policy barring your ability to carry firearms there or, if they can't provide one, a phone number of their superior so that you can make a complaint. Then, leave and take your business elsewhere and once you're sure the business' policy is "no guns/weapons", then let me know here and they'll be DNP'd.
 
T

tricityguy

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Must you? Why would you have to show a CWP to an officer when OCing? If one asked for mine, I'd show it, but I'd inform him that I am complying with his order under protest.

Now, if I'm in my vehicle at the time, that quite obviously changes things.
 
T

tricityguy

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Technically you're not lying. You're stating a fact about the law.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why I worded it that way... :) But, now that it's been said, I prefer your method. "I'd prefer not to, thanks", and collect the relevant information if they ask me to leave. Seems more... gentlemanly... to me.
 
C

colt45ws

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[sup]Why would you need to come clean to a police officer? If it isnt being carried in a manner that requires it, why would you have to come clean? You could just say you dont have it on you. Maybe you "forgot" it in your car, where you would need it. :p
[/sup]
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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tricityguy wrote:
Technically you're not lying. You're stating a fact about the law.
Click to expand...
Which is exactly why I worded it that way... :) But, now that it's been said, I prefer your method. "I'd prefer not to, thanks", and collect the relevant information if they ask me to leave. Seems more... gentlemanly... to me.
Click to expand...
That's why I'm here... ;)

Carry on. :cool:
 
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grishnav

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just_a_car wrote:
You never said you didn't have a CPL (and it's CPL, not CWP... if the manager knows that and you say it wrong, they'll think you're just some punk).
Click to expand...
If you wanna get all technical about it, it's an LTCCP. License to Carry Concealed Pistol.

Go ahead and look. I'll wait while you do.



:p
 
just_a_car

just_a_car

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grishnav wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
You never said you didn't have a CPL (and it's CPL, not CWP... if the manager knows that and you say it wrong, they'll think you're just some punk).
Click to expand...
If you wanna get all technical about it, it's an LTCCP. License to Carry Concealed Pistol.

Go ahead and look. I'll wait while you do.



:p
Click to expand...
Does it say that on the License? Yes.

Does it say that in the LAW? No:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070

The law calls it a "Concealed Pistol License" throughout RCW 9.41.
 
G

grishnav

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just_a_car wrote:
grishnav wrote:
just_a_car wrote:
You never said you didn't have a CPL (and it's CPL, not CWP... if the manager knows that and you say it wrong, they'll think you're just some punk).
Click to expand...
If you wanna get all technical about it, it's an LTCCP. License to Carry Concealed Pistol.

Go ahead and look. I'll wait while you do.



:p
Click to expand...
Does it say that on the License? Yes.

Does it say that in the LAW? No:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.070

The law calls it a "Concealed Pistol License" throughout RCW 9.41.
Click to expand...

It uses both, but it starts with mine:

(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
Click to expand...

:celebrate
 
B

Bear 45/70

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tricityguy wrote:
Must you? Why would you have to show a CWP to an officer when OCing? If one asked for mine, I'd show it, but I'd inform him that I am complying with his order under protest.

Now, if I'm in my vehicle at the time, that quite obviously changes things.
Click to expand...

It's the law, if a cop asked you better show your CPL. There is no CWP, Concealed Weapons Permit in Washington. It is a CPL or CHL, a Concealed Pistol License or a Concealed Handgun License. It only covers handguns not any weapon.

[align=right][/align]
[/b](1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and.......

"shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so"......................

Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
 
J

joeroket

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Bear 45/70 wrote:
tricityguy wrote:
Must you? Why would you have to show a CWP to an officer when OCing? If one asked for mine, I'd show it, but I'd inform him that I am complying with his order under protest.

Now, if I'm in my vehicle at the time, that quite obviously changes things.
Click to expand...

It's the law, if a cop asked you better show your CPL. There is no CWP, Concealed Weapons Permit in Washington. It is a CPL or CHL, a Concealed Pistol License or a Concealed Handgun License. It only covers handguns not any weapon.



(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and.......

"shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so"......................

Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
Click to expand...
If you are not required to have it in your possession by law then by law you are not required to show it.
 
B

Bear 45/70

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joeroket wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:
tricityguy wrote:
Must you? Why would you have to show a CWP to an officer when OCing? If one asked for mine, I'd show it, but I'd inform him that I am complying with his order under protest.

Now, if I'm in my vehicle at the time, that quite obviously changes things.
Click to expand...

It's the law, if a cop asked you better show your CPL. There is no CWP, Concealed Weapons Permit in Washington. It is a CPL or CHL, a Concealed Pistol License or a Concealed Handgun License. It only covers handguns not any weapon.



(1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

(b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and.......

"shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so"......................

Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.
Click to expand...
If you are not required to have it in your possession by law then by law you are not required to show it.
Click to expand...
Well, of course not. But I don't know about you, but it is in my pocket always because with 4 different vehicles, keeping track of my permit fromthe cars to the trucks is just not gonna get it. Hell I have enough trouble keeping track of my handicap placard and it is at least twice as big.
 
Mainsail

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tricityguy wrote:
Sure, you probably have a permit (I do), but last I checked,
Click to expand...


There's no such thing as a permit in WA, it's a license. The license is to carry concealed. Correct any police officer that asks for a permit.
 
J

jchen012

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Mainsail wrote:
There's no such thing as a permit in WA, it's a license. The license is to carry concealed. Correct any police officer that asks for a permit.
Click to expand...


+1

Permits tend to be temporary. Like a learning permit for driving a car. After the period is over, you are granted a license.


As for a response, demand a corporate policy. And tell them that you will not be shopping there anymore and that you are going to let everyone know to that shop there.
 
T

tricityguy

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Sorry for screwing the terminology up. Even my LPD calls it a CWP. I'll re-train my brain to say CPL instead. :)
 
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scarlett1125

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the point here that you are OCing, which does not require a CPL? I have a CPL, but if I'm OCing, does the officer have any right to ask me for a CPL that is not required by law? And if I'm CCing properly (in other words, my weapon is not visible to the naked eye), then the officer shouldn't even know it's there because I'm not going to be pulling it out to show off.

I think Bear is right. If I'm OCing, I would probably give the officer my CPL but state that I was doing so under protest because the officer had no right to request it in the first place.
 
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