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Thread: Are all Firearms indeed Registered ?

  1. #1
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    I was Talking with a friend the other day, and he mentioned being thankful that Louisiana did not require a Gun Registry for handguns.

    I then replied, that All Firearms are indeed Registered.

    My reason's are:

    Every FFL, by Federal Law keeps a registry of Every Firearm that they come in contact with.

    Your local FFL Gun Dealers do the same.

    To me this whole registry thing, is already existent in America, just under the blanket of the FFL's being required to do so.

    Am I right ?

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    each time i buy a gun, i need a background check. the serial #'s and makes/models are recorded on the paperwork, so technically, i am registering my guns.

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    Yes and no. If you buy a new gun, then it's traceable via the 4473 forms, yes. However, most states don't prohibit private sales. Between that and inheritance, it's usually a dead-end, so to speak,when ATF (or whatever LE agency) attempts a gun trace. Most crimes are not perpetrated by the original purchasers so that there's a handy paper trail.

    Also, if it's any consolation, the ATF doesn't have the manpower to dig through every transaction form to see who bought what when. It's theoretically possible, but would require many yearsto compile the info from audits of every FFL manufacturer, wholesaler, dealer, and collector, by which time much of it would be innaccurate anyway because of secondary sales and deaths of owners. The volume of data is simply overwhelming and not worth attempting, even if they wanted to. Then again, they could always hire 100,000 more auditors...

    -ljp

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    Legba wrote:
    Yes and no. If you buy a new gun, then it's traceable via the 4473 forms, yes. However, most states don't prohibit private sales. Between that and inheritance, it's usually a dead-end, so to speak,when ATF (or whatever LE agency) attempts a gun trace. Most crimes are not perpetrated by the original purchasers so that there's a handy paper trail.

    Also, if it's any consolation, the ATF doesn't have the manpower to dig through every transaction form to see who bought what when. It's theoretically possible, but would require many yearsto compile the info from audits of every FFL manufacturer, wholesaler, dealer, and collector, by which time much of it would be innaccurate anyway because of secondary sales and deaths of owners. The volume of data is simply overwhelming and not worth attempting, even if they wanted to. Then again, they could always hire 100,000 more auditors...

    -ljp
    I'm not too sure I'm tracking with you here.

    If a Crime happens @ point "B" with a Glock 17. How hard would it be for detectives to get in touch with all local gun shops and request to know who purchased a G17 lately ?

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    Dustin wrote:
    Legba wrote:
    Yes and no. If you buy a new gun, then it's traceable via the 4473 forms, yes. However, most states don't prohibit private sales. Between that and inheritance, it's usually a dead-end, so to speak,when ATF (or whatever LE agency) attempts a gun trace. Most crimes are not perpetrated by the original purchasers so that there's a handy paper trail.

    Also, if it's any consolation, the ATF doesn't have the manpower to dig through every transaction form to see who bought what when. It's theoretically possible, but would require many yearsto compile the info from audits of every FFL manufacturer, wholesaler, dealer, and collector, by which time much of it would be innaccurate anyway because of secondary sales and deaths of owners. The volume of data is simply overwhelming and not worth attempting, even if they wanted to. Then again, they could always hire 100,000 more auditors...

    -ljp
    I'm not too sure I'm tracking with you here.

    If a Crime happens @ point "B" with a Glock 17. How hard would it be for detectives to get in touch with all local gun shops and request to know who purchased a G17 lately ?
    these guys are referrering to if the govt wanted to confiscate all firearms. not if they wanted to see where one was.

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    TipsyMcStagger wrote:
    Dustin wrote:
    If a Crime happens @ point "B" with a Glock 17. How hard would it be for detectives to get in touch with all local gun shops and request to know who purchased a G17 lately ?
    these guys are referrering to if the govt wanted to confiscate all firearms. not if they wanted to see where one was.


    Well with enough man power, why would that not be the same option?

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    these guys are referrering to if the govt wanted to confiscate all firearms. not if they wanted to see where one was.
    the govt. cant track 23 million illegals..how can they confiscate all weapons?



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    yeahYeah wrote:
    these guys are referrering to if the govt wanted to confiscate all firearms. not if they wanted to see where one was.
    the govt. cant track 23 million illegals..how can they confiscate all weapons?


    Good point


    But it could be b/c they don't want to track them :X

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    Dustin wrote:
    yeahYeah wrote:
    these guys are referrering to if the govt wanted to confiscate all firearms. not if they wanted to see where one was.
    the govt. cant track 23 million illegals..how can they confiscate all weapons?


    Good point


    But it could be b/c they don't want to track them :X
    our govt. makes their priorities known quiet well.

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    Sure, the local cops can call the local mom & pop gun shop and ask if a certain make and model gun was recently sold that might match a recovered slug or gun, but that mostly happens on CSI-type shows. Ballistics is as much art as science, even in places with fancy forensics labs. It also assumes that it was a local perp with a locally-bought gun, etc. You might get a hit, but that has happened exactly once in almost a thousand gun transactions I've done - and even then it doesn't prove that the guy who bought the gun did anything wrong.

    I took the original question to mean that "the government" - at whatever level - might be able to account for who owns what guns generally, and that is simply not possible in practise under the present arrangement.

    -ljp

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    If there is no set way of knowing now by the govt. i betcha there will be if the "chosen one" gets into office. Being backed by IANSA, full blown registration could be on the table.

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    yeahYeah wrote:
    each time i buy a gun, i need a background check. the serial #'s and makes/models are recorded on the paperwork, so technically, i am registering my guns.
    Actually.. no. You are not.

    If you look at the state form it will not (at least in VB) have gun details.

    It is all geared at the buyer and collecting into needed to check him out. Now the dealer does have a form with all the data and this is kept in paper form and can be inspected by the ATF on a limited basis each year.

    SO the state only knows that you bought a gun and when and in VA this is purged each month and the counter reset. You can only buy one a month unless you have a CC permit or are a LEO.

    So in the end.... the state does NOT have a detailed list of your guns at their fingertips. If they did... a LEO would not need to contact the ATF who must go visit every location the gun was known to travel up to the point of sale to the consumer.

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    yeahYeah wrote:
    If there is no set way of knowing now by the govt. i betcha there will be if the "chosen one" gets into office. Being backed by IANSA, full blown registration could be on the table.
    And, now, who's talking about "closing the gun show loophole" and effectively forcing most private sales through NICS?

    To answer the OP, though, all firearms sold through an FFL are kind of registered, but the registration is useful more for a confiscation than for tracing an individual gun.

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    SO the state only knows that you bought a gun and when and in VA this is purged each month and the counter reset. You can only buy one a month unless you have a CC permit or are a LEO.
    And of course, the one a month only applies to handguns, not long arms. I'm going broke keeping up my quota of buying a gun a month! (It's.....the LAW!)

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    zoom6zoom wrote:
    SO the state only knows that you bought a gun and when and in VA this is purged each month and the counter reset. You can only buy one a month unless you have a CC permit or are a LEO.
    And of course, the one a month only applies to handguns, not long arms. I'm going broke keeping up my quota of buying a gun a month! (It's.....the LAW!)
    It is the law... 12 a year... like it or not. So what are you going to buy next month?

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    Unless you have a permit to carry concealed, correct?

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    WHAT ?? only one a month!

    God I love Missouri !!:celebrate

    All of mine are registered in one form or another, up until this last year we were even supposed to go to the Sheriffs office in your county of residence to obtain a permit to acquire a handgun be it a new purchase or private sale. and technically you were supposed to go back to the sheriffs office if you made a private sale and no longer owned a handgun that they had record of..

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    I believe the 4473 forms are for when the anti-gunners get to power, they can use it for their national registry, for eventual confescation of firearms.

    - Statesman


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    Statesman wrote:
    I believe the 4473 forms are for when the anti-gunners get to power, they can use it for their national registry, for eventual confescation of firearms.

    - Statesman

    Well I'll be doggone fellas ya shoulda been here yesterday, I sold em all !!

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    Carnivore wrote:
    Well I'll be doggone fellas ya shoulda been here yesterday, I sold em all !!
    That might not work once all private sales are subject to NICS (even though the records are supposed to be destoyed) or made outright illegal. That's why everyone should try and buy privately now if they are able to do so.

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