Ohioans for Concealed Carry Win Case in Ohio S. Ct. Enforcing Preemption!

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OFCC wins it's battle with the City of Clyde reaffirming local municipalities can not create it's own gun laws that conflict with state law!



This is know as preemption.



http://www.ohioccw.org/content/view/4064/53/

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Here is the opinion: http://www.sconet.state.oh.us/Communications_Office/summaries/2008/0918/070960.asp

Now, what does this mean? Apparently it means that preemption is for real - and all gun bans in ohio are dead save for those established under Ohio and federal law.

Ohio's state laws them appear to REQUIRE open carry at city council meetings, airports, and college campuses - concealed cary only is banned.

Has anyone open carried at an Ohio city council meeting?

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Ahhhh....GREAT POINTS!!! It does create a few questions, doesn't it?

This is a school of thought, but no one really wants to test it.

This is under discussion here:

http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18897&start=120

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ORC 2923.123

(A) No person shall knowingly convey or attempt to convey a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance into a courthouse or into another building or structure in which a courtroom is located.



ORC 2923.126

(C)(1) Nothing in this section shall negate or restrict a rule, policy, or practice of a private employer that is not a private college, university, or other institution of higher education concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer. Nothing in this section shall require a private employer of that nature to adopt a rule, policy, or practice concerning or prohibiting the presence of firearms on the private employer’s premises or property, including motor vehicles owned by the private employer.



There is no Federal/State law that states Airport, just the planes. But correct me if I'm wrong, Airports are private, they can post signs. It's now a civil matter instead of criminal to walk past them. I think the Columbus airport has them.



This was this issue before with the rest area signs, they stated the CC reg, but nothing about OC. I wasn't going to be the test case though.

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snake021 wrote:

But correct me if I'm wrong, Airports are private, they can post signs. It's now a civil matter instead of criminal to walk past them. I think the Columbus airport has them.

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Most or all airports are run by government entities and are presumably preempted in Ohio.

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From the ruling:

Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition.

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Unlicensed open carry on foot upheld again.

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Mike wrote:

snake021 wrote:

But correct me if I'm wrong, Airports are private, they can post signs. It's now a civil matter instead of criminal to walk past them. I think the Columbus airport has them.

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Most or all airports are run by government entities and are presumably preempted in Ohio.

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OK.

So this ties into the Clyde argument, does it not?

The Columbus OH airport is run by the city (I googled it) this means it is a public facility, right? Therefore we should be able to carry in the airport, as long as we are not going to board an aircraft (per OH & Federal law). This means the signs are not legal, as in the Clyde park case?

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And just to clarify Mike.

The two ORC quotes I posted above state nothing about CC or OC, just weapons period. I know people will say that they are written in the CC laws section, but when they specifically state "weapon", I take it as weapon, CC or OC doesn't matter, IMO.

So if the city council meeting takes place where there is a court room, then it is not permitted. Likewise, private colleges are allowed to restrict guns.

The big question is the airports.

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Now you folks in Ohio need to lobby to remove the "open carry requirement" at collegfes, airports, and government buildings. Just like in Virginia folks lobby to repeal the open carry requriement in restaurants licensed to serve alcohol.

Doing so would point out that OC is lawful in those locations.

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It seems the state law and interpretation by thestate AG has already made the determination for us about airports and CC:

"


[align=left]a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under R.C.[/align]

[align=left]2923.125 or R.C. 2923.1213 is prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun into the following[/align]

[align=left]places:[/align]

[align=left](1) A police station, sheriff’s office, or state highway patrol station,[/align]

[align=left]premises controlled by the bureau of criminal identification and investigation, a[/align]

[align=left]state correctional institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility, an airport[/align]

[align=left]passenger terminal, or an institution that is maintained, operated, managed, and[/align]

governed pursuant to [R.C. 5119.02(A) or R.C. 5123.03(A)(1)];

HOWEVER, this does not state OC is not allowed, just CC. Still up in the air.

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Goodwir2 wrote:

It seems the state law and interpretation by thestate AG has already made the determination for us about airports and CC:

"



[align=left]a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under R.C.[/align]


[align=left]2923.125 or R.C. 2923.1213 is prohibited from carrying a concealed handgun into the following[/align]


[align=left]places:[/align]


[align=left](1) A police station, sheriff’s office, or state highway patrol station,[/align]


[align=left]premises controlled by the bureau of criminal identification and investigation, a[/align]


[align=left]state correctional institution, jail, workhouse, or other detention facility, an airport[/align]


[align=left]passenger terminal, or an institution that is maintained, operated, managed, and[/align]

governed pursuant to [R.C. 5119.02(A) or R.C. 5123.03(A)(1)];

HOWEVER, this does not state OC is not allowed, just CC. Still up in the air.

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I think you got it backwards - concealed carry is prohibited at these locations. Open Carry is not prohibited.

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I thought I had it right, maybe I just didnot make myself clear -- CC is prohibited, there is nothing in the ORC about OC, at least, not that I can find.

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Goodwir2 wrote:

I thought I had it right, maybe I just didnot make myself clear -- CC is prohibited, there is nothing in the ORC about OC, at least, not that I can find.

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Right - so open c arry is not prohibited.

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That is my understanding, yes.

Our Ohio laws are very, very strange. Our Constitution allows "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security;", and yet, it took years to get our congress to pass a most convoluted law allowing us to conceal carry. After almost four years, they are still changing it over and over again trying to get it right.

My wife and I took the CCW class, applied for and received our CCW license more than three years ago. (we have since reapplied and received our renewals). And I am more hesitant than ever to carry. Because the law allows carry prohibitions at will by store owners, it is scary to carry - we might break a law - as most of the "Concealed Weapon prohibition signs" are NEVER Posted at the door or entrance to the facility but somewhere within the shop/store. Our law states that owners who want to prohibit concealed carry"may post a sign in a conspicuous location that prohibits persons from carrying firearms or concealed handgun." It seems the idea of "a conspicuous location" is the slippery eel here. If I am in a store, shopping, and pass the bulletin board of the store where the general store license, Worker's Compensation instructions, minimum wage instructions and other instructions are posted, and suddenly see the "No Guns Allowed in this Store" sign - I usually beat feet, but not before I provide the store manager with a "no guns, no $$" card. Not that that does much good. That is usually like telling people that if B. Hussein Obama is elected POTUS, taxes will go up, government will get larger, and our right to bare arms (e.g., the Second Amendment) will end.

So, what does a serious citizen who has the right to carry openly, granted by the State Constitution do? If I carry into Kroger, and some bunny-lovin', tree-hugger sees my weapon, panics, calls the police, how do I explain to the not-so-knowledgable Officer of the Law, that I am within my Constitutional rights? Basically, I don't.

It's not a good thing - the laws of our state. Virginia is far and away more sophisticated in its understanding than Ohio --

ron

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Goodwir2 wrote:

That is my understanding, yes.

Our Ohio laws are very, very strange. Our Constitution allows "The people have the right to bear arms for their defense and security;", and yet, it took years to get our congress to pass a most convoluted law allowing us to conceal carry. After almost four years, they are still changing it over and over again trying to get it right.

My wife and I took the CCW class, applied for and received our CCW license more than three years ago. (we have since reapplied and received our renewals). And I am more hesitant than ever to carry. Because the law allows carry prohibitions at will by store owners, it is scary to carry - we might break a law - as most of the "Concealed Weapon prohibition signs" are NEVER Posted at the door or entrance to the facility but somewhere within the shop/store. Our law states that owners who want to prohibit concealed carry"may post a sign in a conspicuous location that prohibits persons from carrying firearms or concealed handgun." It seems the idea of "a conspicuous location" is the slippery eel here. If I am in a store, shopping, and pass the bulletin board of the store where the general store license, Worker's Compensation instructions, minimum wage instructions and other instructions are posted, and suddenly see the "No Guns Allowed in this Store" sign - I usually beat feet, but not before I provide the store manager with a "no guns, no $$" card. Not that that does much good. That is usually like telling people that if B. Hussein Obama is elected POTUS, taxes will go up, government will get larger, and our right to bare arms (e.g., the Second Amendment) will end.

So, what does a serious citizen who has the right to carry openly, granted by the State Constitution do? If I carry into Kroger, and some bunny-lovin', tree-hugger sees my weapon, panics, calls the police, how do I explain to the not-so-knowledgable Officer of the Law, that I am within my Constitutional rights? Basically, I don't.

It's not a good thing - the laws of our state. Virginia is far and away more sophisticated in its understanding than Ohio --

ron

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Yes, cause your elected officials, and supreme court are mostly shills. That's why I never EVER will visit, or live in your crappy state!

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Just nit picking here, but what about liquor permits?

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming liquor in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

Again, it says firearm, period.

Pretty sure they sell alcohol at the airport for on site consumption, does the terminal walkway constitute a "room"? Most of the places that sell it are not seperated from the walkway. But I don't think you're allowed to walk down the hallway drinking.

Just trying to think like a prosecutor.

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Goodwir2 wrote:

And I am more hesitant than ever to carry. Because the law allows carry prohibitions at will by store owners, it is scary to carry - we might break a law - as most of the "Concealed Weapon prohibition signs" are NEVER Posted at the door or entrance to the facility but somewhere within the shop/store.

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I think you are worrying way too much.

The law says the signs have to be "conspicuous" and to violate the law you have to "knowingly" ignore that sign. If the sign doesn't follow the law by being conspicuous and thus you didn't enter the business "knowingly", why worry about it? In my opinion, the law was not violated.

If the posting is on some obscurely posted "rules of conduct" sign off in some corner somewhere, how will they prove you "knowingly" ignored it? Are they going to bring in a psychic to read your mind?

If I see a sign at the entrance to a business, I obey the sign because that is "conspicuous". If I don't see a sign at the entrance, I don't go looking for non-lawful, non-conspicuous signs. I am not a lawyer.

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My dear XD45 - it's NOT my crappy state. I just happen to be living here.

Got an idea - why don't you tell all of us where you live, so we can have some fun ripping the laws in your state apart.

Because, you see, laws are made by politicians, and my friend, there ain't no difference in the mental capacity of politicians by state, region, or country.

They are all in the business of politics for one reason, and one reason only. To make money. If the pols of this country were serious about serving the people, they would work like Tibetian Buddhist monks, for nothing but what gets put in their begging bowls. Of course, even if they did work that way, you could be pretty sure Big Oil, Banking, Pharmaceuticals, and others would put nice, big, fat checks in the begging bowls, and not rice.

If your state is less crappy than Ohio, tell me where you live, and are there any job openings for Project Managers -- I would gladly exchange addresses, if your state really is any less crappy than "mine". I have lived in a fairly large number of states in there United States, and brother, they all have their crappy "things".

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snake021 wrote:

Just nit picking here, but what about liquor permits?

(A) No person shall possess a firearm in any room in which any person is consuming liquor in premises for which a D permit has been issued under Chapter 4303. of the Revised Code or in an open air arena for which a permit of that nature has been issued.

Again, it says firearm, period.

Pretty sure they sell alcohol at the airport for on site consumption, does the terminal walkway constitute a "room"? Most of the places that sell it are not seperated from the walkway. But I don't think you're allowed to walk down the hallway drinking.

Just trying to think like a prosecutor.

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The statute says room, not building. The liquor permit only authorizes dispensing and consumption within a specified area. Only those rooms in which a person may lawfully consume liquor purchased for on-premises consumption from a Class D permit premises are covered by that statute, and only while any person is consuming liquor in that room.

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Come to New Hampshire.

Obtaining a concealed carry license requires $10 for 4-5 years, no fingerprints, no photos, no training requirement, and has a deadline of 14 days for issuance by the authority.

Open carry, not in a vehicle, is legal everywhere in the state without a license, including bars, except for court facilities and areas off-limits under federal law.

A bill seeking to ban possession of firearms in the State House and the Legislative Office Building was crushed in a 400-something to 20 vote, and the woman who introduced that bill lost her Democrat-party primary a couple of weeks ago.

Check out NHjobs.com and do a search for Project Manager. Also DICE.com has a good selection of technical PM jobs, both in Southern NH and greater Boston.

My neighbor down the street moved from New York to New Hampshire about 25 years ago for the same reasons we did - individual liberty, personal responsibility, low taxes, and limited government - and people are still moving here for just those reasons today.