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Thread: Visiting Albuquerque & Santa Fe during the Balloon Festival

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    The family and I will be up in Albuquerque for the Balloon Festival and was wondering if the Festival is a gun free zone? We will also be visiting Old Town in both Albuquerque and Santa Fe and maybe take the Tramway are there any places to avoid or gun free zones other than the obvious? Thanks for any insights.

    Machete

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    I cannot give you a perfect de jurisanswer, butde facto will suffice.

    The Balloon Fiesta may have been started by local enthusiasts, but is essentiallya City of Albuquerque event. While Bernalillo County is open carry, as is the entire state of New Mexico, it is a 'family' and 'international' event and your open carry right will be a serious'fashion faux pas.'

    I've only seen open carry twice in fifteen years. Once, at a gun show. The other, an old,salty cowboy-type from the country who walked into an Office Max witha classic six-shooter strapped to his leg.

    Once, I had my Alessi holster on my belt, EMPTY, the gun left in the car, and I was hassled by a policeman in downtown Albuquerque.

    One final illustration: the only Country/Western bar left in Albuquerque is the Ranch, now named Sidewinders. Don't be fooled though. It is a gay bar.

    When I work, I carry a 9mm under my arm in a shoulder rig, but wear an open vest. Technically, I guess I could be arrested for concealed carry . . . my only argument to the judge is that if the cop saw it, then how could it be concealed?

    I have resisted getting a concealed carry license. One of these days I will. The open carry restriction is a carry-over from the territory West, when carrying concealed was a sign of subterfuge and cowardice.



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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    It would depend on how long the cop was looking at you before he noticed the shoulder rig. If it isn't obviously immediately identifiable thatyou are carrying a gun I can see his arguement standing up in court.

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    photog wrote:
    I cannot give you a perfect de jurisanswer, butde facto will suffice.

    ....your open carry right will be a serious'fashion faux pas.'

    I've only seen open carry twice in fifteen years. Once, at a gun show. The other, an old,salty cowboy-type from the country who walked into an Office Max witha classic six-shooter strapped to his leg.

    Once, I had my Alessi holster on my belt, EMPTY, the gun left in the car, and I was hassled by a policeman in downtown Albuquerque.

    One final illustration: the only Country/Western bar left in Albuquerque is the Ranch, now named Sidewinders. Don't be fooled though. It is a gay bar.

    When I work, I carry a 9mm under my arm in a shoulder rig, but wear an open vest. Technically, I guess I could be arrested for concealed carry . . . my only argument to the judge is that if the cop saw it, then how could it be concealed?

    I have resisted getting a concealed carry license. One of these days I will. The open carry restriction is a carry-over from the territory West, when carrying concealed was a sign of subterfuge and cowardice.


    "....your open carry right will be a serious'fashion faux pas.'" Firearms ain't a fashion accessory... or 'statement'. It's a right. Use it or lose it...


    "The other, an old,salty cowboy-type from the country who walked into an Office Max witha classic six-shooter strapped to his leg." I've done that... not in NM tho. It's a SAA Ruger .45LC

    'From the 'country'? Huh? What 'country'? Ya mean he wasn't a 'city dude'... a 'townie'? Albakackalacky ain't New Mexico... it's PAVEMENT.

    "Once, I had my Alessi holster on my belt, EMPTY, the gun left in the car, and I was hassled by a policeman in downtown Albuquerque." Any details on that encounter? What was his opinionated problem? I've OC'd all over NM 'n never had that happen... but then... "old,salty cowboy-type(s)" might get a pass.

    "The open carry restriction is a carry-over from the territory West, when carrying concealed was a sign of subterfuge and cowardice." Same here in Arizona. 'Territory West? Sheesh... Ya mean the Gadsden's? Confederate Territory of Arizona (which included most of NM to the Texas line) or the Territories prior to Statehood? 'Read some 'legislative arguments back in the 'old days' against Concealed Carry tho... A MAN was expected to be heeled openly where you could see it... not like some SNIVELIN' SNEAKIN' COWARDwith a Derringer in his pocket. :X





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    An Answer to the Original Question, or is it?

    I agree with you Senor Sonora.

    As for the other replies, I am reconsidering my resistance to getting my concealed carry permit. The constitution says "shall not be infringed" . . . the word 'shall' being a legal term of art meaning 'not open to repeal or revision.'

    As for the original poster, I am a paralegal part-time so I may as well get over the social interpretation and offer some law.

    I did some thinking and remembered that the Albuquerque Intl Balloon Fiesta has alcohol beverage vendors and you can walk around drinking a beer (at 5 am, its 5 o:clock somewhere, right?) or with bourbon in your coffee. On that note, open carry or concealed will be unlawful. A controlling factor will be 'consumption on premises,'

    This may be exempt in the RV camping areas.

    Note: Most gas stations and convenience stores sell alcohol, so it is a felony to be caught with a firearm open carry.

    There seems to be a caveat excluding a concealed carry in an establishment that sells package alcohol for consumption off-premises. But, that still excludes open carry.

    See http://www.dps.nm.org/lawEnforcement...pleteAct05.pdf

    This is the problem with lawful 'restrictions' on the right to carry. It gets damn complicated. For instance, you arelawful carrying in your car, but if you get out of the car to open your trunk . . . ?

    The police in New Mexico are purported to be well-trained in carry law for purposes of citation and prosecution. You may wish to call the NM State Police at 505-841-9256

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    That's a big negative photog. While the Balloon Fiesta serves liquor, it is limited to beer gardens and corporate tents.
    Machete, you cannot carry into any area that is a licensed premise (ie beer gardens), but you may carry everywhere else. The event is NOT a city event. The event is a private event, therefore if the organizers ask you not to carry there, you cannot. There are a lot of issues that could arise if someone finds that the entire park is licensed premise tho. The only way to be sure is to contact the RLD at (505) 476-4875 to determine the "licensed premise".
    If you wish to carry on the Tram, you cannot go into the restaurant at the top as it serves alcohol. Hope this helps a little

    -Space

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    Your reasoning is sound, Space, but the vagarities of the law require direct contact with those who are going to enforce it, i.e., the police hired for security. That is my opinion. I would not rely on the Balloon Fiesta management.

    In all the years I've visited the Balloon Fiesta, I have not seen posting at gates signage banning guns on the premises. This is required for a private property ban.

    As for carry in High Finance at the Tram, that depends on the statutes. In some jurisdictions, the poster can switch to concealed carry with their CC permit.

    I am not allowed to give legal advice. That is why I directed the poster to NM gun laws and the State Police.

    My opinion is just that, based on a little experience and education. I am not Mandatory Authority and this is not Attorney work product. The State Police and NM gun law on the web will do just fine.

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    Do you live in NM photog? Someone telling you not to carry is just as valid as a sign. Also there are no jurisdictional laws in NM. All cities, counties must follow state law under the preemption clause in the states constitution. The no carry laws where liquor is sold is actually a liquor law, not a gun law.

    Machete, the laws are complex when it comes to liquor, and I think the writers wanted it that way. If you have a ccw, use it while at the fiesta, and don't go into any of the beer gardens. As far as open carry, the State Police may just tell you its a no go.

    You may also want to IM gpshrader. He is State Police and very knowledgeable about NM gun laws.

    -Space

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    Yes. I live in New Mexico and have been to the Balloon Fiesta a few times in the past 15 years.

    In particular,disallowing of carry, open or concealed, on private property requires conspicuous posting of signs, or a verbal request by a person in lawful possession of the property.

    N.M Stat. Ann. ยงยง 17-2-12; 17-2-33 through 35; 29-19-1 through 12; 30-3-8; 30-7-1 through 16; 32A-2-33.

    Here is a synopsis taken from a thorough review of NM gun law.

    Carry, open or otherwise not allowed under following conditions:

    When in violation of state of federal law . . . on premises of school or preschool . . . on public bus transportation . . . on Indian lands . . . on court grounds or court facility . . . on University property, but school must post signs conspicuously . . . at a bar or alcohol dispenser establishment EXCEPT when said dispenser is in a hotel/motel and you have a room . . . while under the influence of alcohol, drugs; over-the-counter or prescribed, if a policeman feels you are impaired . . . with loaded firearm while riding a snowmobile . . . on private property, but ban must be posted with conspicuous signage or told in person verbally by legal possessor of property . . . on a game refuge.

    As for what constitutes a 'concealed' handgun, "loaded handgun that is not visible to the ordinary observations of a reasonable person."

    Therefore, signs must be posted conspicuously at the Balloon Fiesta entrances. Also, the 'premises' an effective curtilage (I love that word, sorry) of the lawful dispenser of alcohol, suggesting where that alcohol is allowed to be consumed.

    Somehow, I feel the original poster has already packed up and left for Albuquerque for now . . . as we hash and rehash this subject. But, it was a good review.

    As always, the best and authoritative source for Open Carry in New Mexico is the DA's office, the State Police number which I posted, or a licensed attorney with expertise and is up-to-date on New Mexico gun law.

    My advice to the original poster is to observe for signage, and if walking the Balloon Fiesta grounds may involve walking into a Burrito stand that sells Budweiser, etc., not to Open Carry.



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    The TRAM

    The Tram may be considered a public conveyance. No Carry.

    Tram and Sandia Peak pathways are considered State Park land and it is clearly posted 'no handguns' . . . which I intentionally violate when hiking where bears or mountain lions may lurk.

    High Finance serves alcohol . . . so, no carry on the Tram.

    SANTA FE

    I gave a description of modern Albuquerque . . . full of squeamish folk and liberals. Take Santa Fe and multiply that by 100! A normal Santa Fean will scream and have fainting spells at the sight or mention of Barack or Michelle Obama. Likewise, will assume the look of horror and moral outrage at the sight of your Sig Sauer in a belt holster.

    I respect your advocacy of Open Carry as a Right to be Exercised, but the caveate of 'other state and federal law' makes carry a damn nuisance, requiring walking a licensed attorney at your heel on a leash.

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    I just wanted to thank all those who have responded to my post, I'll be in Albuquerque, the 10th of October and look forward to having a fun time.

    Machete

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