I am all for rights but it is a bad idea.

M16a2 · Sep 19, 2008

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So where do I start.... Well I am 26 white male CCW holder and live in Farmington hills, Waterford, Port Huron. I have had my share of bad times with CCW.

First one I was in bar drunk( gun locked in truck). With 2 friends one DD and other drunk. Someone I when to school with and another KID (19) came in. My drunk ass bought them $60 in drinks. They trail my truck home and shot me for my money. Kid was found at his house with stolen gun. Remember I know his full name and house and car. Was looking at 21 years. Underage drinking,handgun,fleeing,and drug charges...... But got 4years changed to 2years.:cuss:

Two. Went to College to sign up for class and locked gun in car, came back start car and put gun back on. start to drive away. Campus cops are trailing me almost all the way home. pull me over and when I show him the CCW and say I have my gun on me. I was asked to step out of the car and told it is a felony to have a gun on school property. And that I would be going to Oakland county jail. I tryed to tell the officers that there is more to the law than the writting on the back of the card. He said "do you thing I am stupid" And Off I go in jail 3hrs and out (good Lawer). So $145 tow $360 to get out of jail. Go to get my personal iteams back and there missing. Meaning gun,I-phone,I-pod,wallet,Money,hat..... Few hr. later theyshow he boxes with guns in them saying "is this it" tell we found it.So the gun bord suspends my CCW and Saying we know you are in the right but we have to do this as your court is pending. Well 4 months later it is over. The cop was pissed and tryed to change the charge to a local law at the last minute. And to protect the officer the prosecute changed it to "faild to tell officer of CCW" even then the police report said on the 3 line that the supject showed me his ID,CCW, and stated he had a gun extra clip and knife. We it cost me $4000 in fees. and The tow place drove my car as I found his gloves in my truck and the GPS tracking alarm shows it on M5 doing 87mph. But All I can get is $145 back at a lawer fee of $$$. And as far as the cops go they have filed with the school that I have a felony for the gun at school. And I would need to prove that they knew the laws but didn't fallow them and not that they are just stupid and I know that they really are stupid.

So i read this OC in Michigan and like it as it is easier to pull a gun on my side than in my belt. So I call the Waterford PD. And the officer says "no Michigan is a permit state only" But gets me the Sargent and he says yes but you shouldn't . B/C it will only make more problems. Cuz if we get a call to Meijers and come out we will take the gun and you to jail. And tell the Gun board of this and ask them to take you CCW. And you will take it to court and it will be all dismissed but is it really worth all of that? I said no anf thank you for your time. He also said and meijers will not want your buss. Anymore

So the facts are this---- It is not ok to me stupid of the laws but it is ok for the officer to be.

Allso you can't sue the prosecute

Jared · Sep 19, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

So where do I start.... Well I am 26 white male CCW holder and live in Farmington hills, Waterford, Port Huron. I have had my share of bad times with CCW.

First one I was in bar drunk( gun locked in truck). With 2 friends one DD and other drunk. Someone I when to school with and another KID (19) came in. My drunk ass bought them $60 in drinks. They trail my truck home and shot me for my money. Kid was found at his house with stolen gun. Remember I know his full name and house and car. Was looking at 21 years. Underage drinking,handgun,fleeing,and drug charges...... But got 4years changed to 2years.:cuss:

Two. Went to College to sign up for class and locked gun in car, came back start car and put gun back on. start to drive away. Campus cops are trailing me almost all the way home. pull me over and when I show him the CCW and say I have my gun on me. I was asked to step out of the car and told it is a felony to have a gun on school property. And that I would be going to Oakland county jail. I tryed to tell the officers that there is more to the law than the writting on the back of the card. He said "do you thing I am stupid" And Off I go in jail 3hrs and out (good Lawer). So $145 tow $360 to get out of jail. Go to get my personal iteams back and there missing. Meaning gun,I-phone,I-pod,wallet,Money,hat..... Few hr. later theyshow he boxes with guns in them saying "is this it" tell we found it.So the gun bord suspends my CCW and Saying we know you are in the right but we have to do this as your court is pending. Well 4 months later it is over. The cop was pissed and tryed to change the charge to a local law at the last minute. And to protect the officer the prosecute changed it to "faild to tell officer of CCW" even then the police report said on the 3 line that the supject showed me his ID,CCW, and stated he had a gun extra clip and knife. We it cost me $4000 in fees. and The tow place drove my car as I found his gloves in my truck and the GPS tracking alarm shows it on M5 doing 87mph. But All I can get is $145 back at a lawer fee of $$$. And as far as the cops go they have filed with the school that I have a felony for the gun at school. And I would need to prove that they knew the laws but didn't fallow them and not that they are just stupid and I know that they really are stupid.

So i read this OC in Michigan and like it as it is easier to pull a gun on my side than in my belt. So I call the Waterford PD. And the officer says "no Michigan is a permit state only" But gets me the Sargent and he says yes but you shouldn't . B/C it will only make more problems. Cuz if we get a call to Meijers and come out we will take the gun and you to jail. And tell the Gun board of this and ask them to take you CCW. And you will take it to court and it will be all dismissed but is it really worth all of that? I said no anf thank you for your time. He also said and meijers will not want your buss. Anymore

So the facts are this---- It is not ok to me stupid of the laws but it is ok for the officer to be.

Allso you can't sue the prosecute

Have you heard of 42 USC 1983????

Dirty cops such as the ones you dealt with can and have lost the shirt off their backs.

If your not willing to use this law then yes... it's not worth it.

WARCHILD · Sep 19, 2008

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First off, not to offend you but..... You made two bad choices from the git go. Booze and guns don't mix...PERIOD.... locked in the trunk or not. 2nd, see what the booze got you, buying for under age, (that turned out well didn't it). Maybe you need to re-think your values before you carry a gun. I'm not talking out my a$$, I'm a continued recovering alcoholic, (21yrs.) so I have already re-directed myvalues and priorities.

taxwhat · Sep 19, 2008

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Hi and welcome ..All that being said stop and read whole site , then ask for guidance . There are many roads to OZ not all are gold or eazy .

DanM · Sep 19, 2008

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M16a2,

Yeah, if you've had that bad of luck CC'ing, maybe you shouldn't OC either.

Either way, the advice on this website is don't OC unless you know the law and are confident you know how toassert and defend your rights.

p8ntgames · Sep 20, 2008

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I agree, Alcohol and guns CANNOT be mixed! It will only cause problems.

And yes, look up pre-emtion laws and no-carry areas for yourself, if you cannot find what you are looking for, ask. There is knowledgeable people on this website and they will guide you to what you are looking for.

Dan F. · Sep 21, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

So where do I start.... Well I am 26 white male CCW holder and live in Farmington hills, Waterford, Port Huron. I have had my share of bad times with CCW.

First one I was in bar drunk( gun locked in truck). With 2 friends one DD and other drunk. Someone I when to school with and another KID (19) came in. My drunk ass bought them $60 in drinks. They trail my truck home and shot me for my money. Kid was found at his house with stolen gun. Remember I know his full name and house and car. Was looking at 21 years. Underage drinking,handgun,fleeing,and drug charges...... But got 4years changed to 2years.:cuss:

Two. Went to College to sign up for class and locked gun in car, came back start car and put gun back on. start to drive away. Campus cops are trailing me almost all the way home. pull me over and when I show him the CCW and say I have my gun on me. I was asked to step out of the car and told it is a felony to have a gun on school property. And that I would be going to Oakland county jail. I tryed to tell the officers that there is more to the law than the writting on the back of the card. He said "do you thing I am stupid" And Off I go in jail 3hrs and out (good Lawer). So $145 tow $360 to get out of jail. Go to get my personal iteams back and there missing. Meaning gun,I-phone,I-pod,wallet,Money,hat..... Few hr. later theyshow he boxes with guns in them saying "is this it" tell we found it.So the gun bord suspends my CCW and Saying we know you are in the right but we have to do this as your court is pending. Well 4 months later it is over. The cop was pissed and tryed to change the charge to a local law at the last minute. And to protect the officer the prosecute changed it to "faild to tell officer of CCW" even then the police report said on the 3 line that the supject showed me his ID,CCW, and stated he had a gun extra clip and knife. We it cost me $4000 in fees. and The tow place drove my car as I found his gloves in my truck and the GPS tracking alarm shows it on M5 doing 87mph. But All I can get is $145 back at a lawer fee of $$$. And as far as the cops go they have filed with the school that I have a felony for the gun at school. And I would need to prove that they knew the laws but didn't fallow them and not that they are just stupid and I know that they really are stupid.

So i read this OC in Michigan and like it as it is easier to pull a gun on my side than in my belt. So I call the Waterford PD. And the officer says "no Michigan is a permit state only" But gets me the Sargent and he says yes but you shouldn't . B/C it will only make more problems. Cuz if we get a call to Meijers and come out we will take the gun and you to jail. And tell the Gun board of this and ask them to take you CCW. And you will take it to court and it will be all dismissed but is it really worth all of that? I said no anf thank you for your time. He also said and meijers will not want your buss. Anymore

So the facts are this---- It is not ok to me stupid of the laws but it is ok for the officer to be.

Allso you can't sue the prosecute

Er...

M16a2 · Sep 21, 2008

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Ok I thing there is some misunderstanding here.

1- I knew the one man from high school and that he was of age. And the other kid with him I didn't know. The bar is 21+ only so didn't know.

2- I was perfectly under the letter of the law with my gun NOT ON ME OR IN THE BAR. So drinking or being drunk doesn't matter. Not a factor on the crime, also I have a DD (6' 2" 300lb) go with us.

3- I was also perfectly legal in my truck at college asfirearm can be in my car or in a parking lot. I heard that the firearm in college has different rules but haven't looked into all of those yet.

So in all I am the victim here from the criminal and the police. Let me add on the story of the college officers there where two of them,Sargent, and they called the prosecuter. And ZERO knew the law on CC and Colleges. So they but me in jail anyways.

Please tell me how Knowing more of the laws would have helped me. As when he said "tell me where you are allowed carry" I started to summarize the real written law. He was only reading the back of the card saying it doesn't say that. And trying to tell him there are REAL laws that go with the ccw permits and it is way more than the writing on the card. He said do you think I am stupid.

FACT you can be %100 in the right and know the laws but if they want to arrest you they will. So please fell free to post any info,laws, or people I an talk to. As I am the victim here and after my call to the waterford PD about OC, And the Sargent saying well we would ask the GB to take your CCW and arrest you there and let the courts deal with it.

I would like a little help here rather than worthless bashing. Thanks

taxwhat · Sep 21, 2008

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check pm

WARCHILD · Sep 21, 2008

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Sorry, but bashing was not our intent. You should have been more clear with the facts and info in your post. You have the bottom line correct already, "they can arrest you for anything they want to"...... prosecution...... tha'ts what they will have a hard time doing. Now if you can be specific with the info you want/need, fire away and we'll be glad to help.

Sorry if we offended you, Jerry

M16a2 · Sep 21, 2008

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It's ok I don't offend that easy. There is a ton more to the case but those are the highlight.

i read up on 42 USC 1983

Is it stating that government can't be sued but local "state" can! Sorry but it is all in legal talk. I am not interested in costing the people on the city money for then officers mistake. However I don't want this to happen to anyone or me again.

I will do allot more reading then I will post up as I am not up on all the back round laws. Or my rights and how to explain the laws to ignorant Police.

Thanks

DanM · Sep 21, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

Is it stating that government can't be sued but local "state" can! Sorry but it is all in legal talk. I am not interested in costing the people on the city money for then officers mistake. However I don't want this to happen to anyone or me again.

I will do allot more reading then I will post up as I am not up on all the back round laws. Or my rights and how to explain the laws to ignorant Police.

You should consult with an attorney. If you have acase against the PD, you should pursue it. I agree that it would be nice if no one had to sue. But, unfortunately, institutions don't change unless it costs them something in real terms.

Any money you might win should truly be considered a cost of "training" for the police. Of course, it costs a lot less to the police if they internally train their officers before unlawful detentions or arrests happen.But if they don't want to do that and they want to incur the higher costs of training via payouts for their unlawful detentions/arrests, then so be it.

Don't feel guilty. You would be contributing to their education.

marshaul · Sep 21, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

So where do I start.... Well I am 26 white male CCW holder and live in Farmington hills, Waterford, Port Huron. I have had my share of bad times with CCW.

First one I was in bar drunk( gun locked in truck). With 2 friends one DD and other drunk. Someone I when to school with and another KID (19) came in. My drunk ass bought them $60 in drinks. They trail my truck home and shot me for my money. Kid was found at his house with stolen gun. Remember I know his full name and house and car. Was looking at 21 years. Underage drinking,handgun,fleeing,and drug charges...... But got 4years changed to 2years.:cuss:

Two. Went to College to sign up for class and locked gun in car, came back start car and put gun back on. start to drive away. Campus cops are trailing me almost all the way home. pull me over and when I show him the CCW and say I have my gun on me. I was asked to step out of the car and told it is a felony to have a gun on school property. And that I would be going to Oakland county jail. I tryed to tell the officers that there is more to the law than the writting on the back of the card. He said "do you thing I am stupid" And Off I go in jail 3hrs and out (good Lawer). So $145 tow $360 to get out of jail. Go to get my personal iteams back and there missing. Meaning gun,I-phone,I-pod,wallet,Money,hat..... Few hr. later they show he boxes with guns in them saying " is this it" tell we found it. So the gun bord suspends my CCW and Saying we know you are in the right but we have to do this as your court is pending. Well 4 months later it is over. The cop was pissed and tryed to change the charge to a local law at the last minute. And to protect the officer the prosecute changed it to "faild to tell officer of CCW" even then the police report said on the 3 line that the supject showed me his ID,CCW, and stated he had a gun extra clip and knife. We it cost me $4000 in fees. and The tow place drove my car as I found his gloves in my truck and the GPS tracking alarm shows it on M5 doing 87mph. But All I can get is $145 back at a lawer fee of $$$. And as far as the cops go they have filed with the school that I have a felony for the gun at school. And I would need to prove that they knew the laws but didn't fallow them and not that they are just stupid and I know that they really are stupid.

So i read this OC in Michigan and like it as it is easier to pull a gun on my side than in my belt. So I call the Waterford PD. And the officer says "no Michigan is a permit state only" But gets me the Sargent and he says yes but you shouldn't . B/C it will only make more problems. Cuz if we get a call to Meijers and come out we will take the gun and you to jail. And tell the Gun board of this and ask them to take you CCW. And you will take it to court and it will be all dismissed but is it really worth all of that? I said no anf thank you for your time. He also said and meijers will not want your buss. Anymore

So the facts are this---- It is not ok to me stupid of the laws but it is ok for the officer to be.

Allso you can't sue the prosecute

Wait, there's one little detail I'm not clear on...

Are you white?

WARCHILD wrote:

First off, not to offend you but..... You made two bad choices from the git go. Booze and guns don't mix...PERIOD.... locked in the trunk or not. 2nd, see what the booze got you, buying for under age, (that turned out well didn't it). Maybe you need to re-think your values before you carry a gun. I'm not talking out my a$$, I'm a continued recovering alcoholic, (21yrs.) so I have already re-directed my values and priorities.

Not everyone shares your baggage.

For some of us, beer (alcohol) doesn't automatically equate to intoxication, and thus alcohol mixes about as well as guns as it does with cars. Which is not very well, but it's nothing a bit of personal responsibility can't handle.

Just as arbitrary BAC limits have very little to do with the actual dangers of drunk driving (which are very real), so your absolutist "alcohol and guns do not mix" mantra fails to recognize any specific problem with drunk, armed people.

The problem isn't the alcohol, it's the people drinking it. It's really the same as with "guns don't kill people, people kill people." Alcohol isn't the problem, drunk people are.

A much better reaction is to encourage absolute personal responsibility, rather than taking an arbitrary, prohibitionary position on anything.

WARCHILD · Sep 21, 2008

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Marshaul: All you say is quite true. I have said on this forum many times about the responsibilities which go along with a firearm. I was basing my opinion on my own experiences as a drinker as opposed to a non-drinker telling someone about the effects of alcohol and guns. This was based on the partial info in his post. Yes, I know many people who still drink and some do carry a gun; I don't agree with it but that is their choice not mine. I also feel there are some people who can have a beer or two and be capable and responsible enough, that I wouldn't be real concerned about being around them at that time. But as with most.... it's just my opinions on the issue.

Tucker6900 · Sep 22, 2008

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Sorry for your troubles. But if you dont feel comfortable OC'ing, dont OC. Its not a bad idea, unless your not up to what could come of it.

And dont bother talking to Chiefs, and definatley Sgts, Officer, ETC, they all preach the same gospel. "Dont do it" "Its Illegal" "We'll throw you in jail"

Start reading some of the post on here and youll realize that most, if not all officers, areDEAD WRONG whenit comes to anything concerning OC.

As far as carrying on campus goes, I believe that if your a student, you cannot CC or OC on campus. A college campus/property does not fall under preemption due to its "Private Property" status and if their policy says no guns for students and staff, then it means NO GUNS. I may be wrong, if I am, someone please clarify.

Im curious as to how campus police knew you had a gun. You made it sound like they had prior knowledge to your carrying.

JeffSayers · Sep 22, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

I am not interested in costing the people on the city money for then officers mistake.

You could always donate the money back to the city in honor of the armed law-abiding citizens that live there. That would look really good in the newspaper!

Tucker6900 · Sep 22, 2008

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JeffSayers wrote:

M16a2 wrote:

I am not interested in costing the people on the city money for then officers mistake.

Click to expand...

You could always donate the money back to the city in honor of the armed law-abiding citizens that live there. That would look really good in the newspaper!

Thats a great idea for anyone who gets arrested. After taking what you need to pay for legal and lost wages, donate the rest to the PD, but only after they make sure that their PD is up to date on the rules so it doesnt happen again.

Tucker6900 · Sep 22, 2008

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Double post.

M16a2 · Sep 22, 2008

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They had no idea I was carrying! They fallowed my truck out off the parking lot. and fallowed me about 1mile onto public roads. Said they pulled me over for speeding. Even when no campus car has radar, And my truck has a detector/jammer.

It is the law that when in a car you must show ID,CCW,when pulled over and tell them if you have a gun on them. So then I did the one officer to the other I had a gun. So he comes around the front of the truck fast with his hand on his gun. And they ask me to step out of the truck cuz i was under arrest.

At this point it looks like I will be making a complaint so it is at least on record.

As for as CC on a college goes my lawer said the CCW laws for school grounds don't include in car or parking lots. Also it only aplys to K-12grade. As for colleges I heard not in class rooms or dorms. But every where else is ok. <---No idea if this is true

Now I have had my eye out for signs saying no carry. And I have seen them at the post office,rest stop(OHIO) and library. But i think that is for OC right.

Also I am going to look into being "exempt from pistol free zones,MCL 28.425o(4)" As I think that waould make life easyer.

Tucker6900 · Sep 22, 2008

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M16a2 wrote:

They had no idea I was carrying! They fallowed my truck out off the parking lot. and fallowed me about 1mile onto public roads. Said they pulled me over for speeding. Even when no campus car has radar, And my truck has a detector/jammer.

Not taking their side, but when they are following you, or "Pacing" as they like to call it, no radar is needed.

It is the law that when in a car you must show ID,CCW,when pulled over and tell them if you have a gun on them.

Correct.

So then I did the one officer to the other I had a gun. So he comes around the front of the truck fast with his hand on his gun. And they ask me to step out of the truck cuz i was under arrest.

What campus was this? I dontthink that any officer would tell you your under arrest until they have you in custody. And what arrest were they threatening you with?

At this point it looks like I will be making a complaint so it is at least on record.

Yes. Do. And if it went down the way you described, it sounds like you may have some legal options to pursue.

As for as CC on a college goes my lawer said the CCW laws for school grounds don't include in car or parking lots. Also it only aplys to K-12grade. As for colleges I heard not in class rooms or dorms. But every where else is ok. <---No idea if this is true

The "Stay in the car for CC" rule only applies to K-12schools. I believe a college campus parking lot is still campus property, and as a student, if the college states "No weapons" for staff and students, then its still....."NO WEAPONS"

Now I have had my eye out for signs saying no carry. And I have seen them at the post office,rest stop(OHIO) and library. But i think that is for OC right.

Negative. Post offices are covered under preemtion. And I dont see how a rest stop, that is public property, could enforce CC or OC, seeing as how Ohio is an OC state. What post office has a "No Firearms" sign?

Also I am going to look into being "exempt from pistol free zones,MCL 28.425o(4)" As I think that waould make life easyer.

If you have a Michigan CPL, you are exempt from all of Michigans Pistol free zones, but only if you are OC'ing. And then there are still some restrictions. Look em up.

Its still unclear to me if you were actually arrested for something, but regardless, if your filing a suit,it would be wise of you to NOT discuss this any further on this boarduntil the case is resolved.

I am all for rights but it is a bad idea.

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