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Thread: State Fair in Richmond

  1. #1
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    My brother, myself and a friendwill be going to the State Fair in Richmond early next month, and I would like to know if anyone has carried at the fair in past years. I know that it is held on the Richmond Raceway/Fairgrounds, so I checked the websitesfor both the State Fair and the Richmond Raceway Complex, and I found no mention of a prohibition on firearms.

    Has anyone ever seen a sign on the grounds that indicates guns are not allowed? I believe that the big Richmond gun show is always held at the Raceway Complex without any problem, right?

    My brother will likely CC one way or the other, but I may or may not choose to OC if it is either not allowed or has caused problems for others in the past.


  2. #2
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I have always CC'd there without a problem. I would not OC there as that is "trouble headquarters" some nights. Way too many trouble makers running around and LOTS of cops.
    James Reynolds

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  3. #3
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    The State Fair has ben posted for the last several (heck, I have CRAFT so don't ask me how many is "several") years.

    Some people take advantage of the fact that there are no metal detectors and that the ticket-takers only occassionally search purses/bags - and they are looking for booze when they do look inside.

    Admittedly, the livestock you need to fear most is not of the 4-footed variety, and there are enough "incidents" to warrant a thought or two about ignoring any signage. But you need to ask if you are willing to accept all the consequences if you are discovered -- hearing about it forever from family , seeing your name in print :shock:, and worst of all, being banned from RIR property (no NASCAR, only going to the Showplace for gunshows ).

    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  4. #4
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    VApatriot wrote:
    Has anyone ever seen a sign on the grounds that indicates guns are not allowed? I believe that the big Richmond gun show is always held at the Raceway Complex without any problem, right?

    I just double checked the State Fair website and did not see anything that prohibited firearms. If its there, I couldnt find it. In the 11 years that I attended the fair, I've never seen a sign posted banning guns. One could make the assumption that the property owners do not have anything against guns because they hold the gun shows there as well....maybe its a stretch but with no other policy in place, it works.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  5. #5
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    I have always seen no gun signs at state fair grounds/race track but never any metal detectors. They are hard to miss as they have been right beside the ticket collection/entrance. I choose to not attend because of the absolute press of humanity and the "get-out-of-my-way" attitude of some groups.

    The owners of RIR may apply their rules selectively - NO Guns for state fair and OK for gun shows - however and whenever they choose.

    Maybe this year the signs won't be there. Do you think?

    If anybody decides to go, send/post a picture of any signage please.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    skidmark wrote:
    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.
    To CC or OC in violations of some signs is NOT, as you should well know,a crime in VA. One would only be commiting a crime if one refused to leave after being asked by a representative of the owner.

    OCDO members do not misrepresent the law.-Jay

  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    I have been to the fair the past two years. I noticed that the metal detector comes out at night when the rowdy elements tend to flock to the fair.






    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    don'tbe thereafter dark, thats when the local rif-raf show up

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Jason Rogers wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.
    To CC or OC in violations of some signs is NOT, as you should well know,a crime in VA. One would only be commiting a crime if one refused to leave after being asked by a representative of the owner.

    OCDO members do not misrepresent the law.-Jay
    § 18.2-23. Conspiring to trespass or commit larceny.

    A. If any person shall conspire, confederate or combine with another or others in the Commonwealth to go upon or remain upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any part, portion or area thereof, having knowledge that any of them have been forbidden, either orally or in writing, to do so by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or having knowledge that any of them have been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may reasonably be seen, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person shall conspire, confederate or combine with another or others in the Commonwealth to commit larceny or counsel, assist, aid or abet another in the performance of a larceny, where the aggregate value of the goods or merchandise involved is more than $200, he is guilty of a felony punishable by confinement in a state correctional facility for not less than one year nor more than 20 years. The willful concealment of goods or merchandise of any store or other mercantile establishment, while still on the premises thereof, shall be prima facie evidence of an intent to convert and defraud the owner thereof out of the value of the goods or merchandise. A violation of this subsection constitutes a separate and distinct felony.

    C. Jurisdiction for the trial of any person charged under this section shall be in the county or city wherein any part of such conspiracy is planned, or in the county or city wherein any act is done toward the consummation of such plan or conspiracy.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-15.1; 1960, cc. 99, 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 2003, c. 831.)

    § 18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

    If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-173; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1982, c. 169; 1987, cc. 625, 705; 1991, c. 534; 1998, cc. 569, 684.)

    § 18.2-120. Instigating, etc., such trespass by others; preventing service to persons not forbidden to trespass.

    If any person shall solicit, urge, encourage, exhort, instigate or procure another or others to go upon or remain upon the lands, buildings, or premises of another, or any part, portion or area thereof, knowing such other person or persons to have been forbidden, either orally or in writing, to do so by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or knowing such other person or persons to have been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may reasonably be seen; or if any person shall, on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof prevent or seek to prevent the owner, lessee, custodian, person in charge or any of his employees from rendering service to any person or persons not so forbidden, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-173.1; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

    § 19.2-19. Recognizance to keep the peace; when required.

    If any person threatens to kill or injure another or to commit violence or injury against his person or property, or to unlawfully trespass upon his property, he shall be required to give a recognizance to keep the peace for such period not to exceed one year as the court hearing the complaint may determine.

    (Code 1950, §§ 19.1-26, 19.1-27; 1960, c. 366; 1975, c. 495; 1978, c. 500.)

    It appears that § 18.2-23 actually says that one commits trespass before the owner/agent of the propertry asks you to leave and you refuse to do so.

    Police generally ask the owner/agent to repeat their request to leave the property so the police can witness you refusal, as trespass is generallyeither a Class 1 or Class 3 misdemeanor (although "A violation of this subsection [§ 18.2-23 , B] constitutes a separate and distinct felony." As we are aware, police generally do not have the authority to arrest for misdemeanors committed outside the presence of the police officer.

    I repeat:
    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.
    stay safe.

    skidmark

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
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    skidmark wrote:
    Jason Rogers wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.
    To CC or OC in violations of some signs is NOT, as you should well know,a crime in VA. One would only be commiting a crime if one refused to leave after being asked by a representative of the owner.

    OCDO members do not misrepresent the law.-Jay
    § 18.2-23. Conspiring to trespass or commit larceny.

    A. If any person shall conspire, confederate or combine with another or others in the Commonwealth to go upon or remain upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any part, portion or area thereof, having knowledge that any of them have been forbidden, either orally or in writing, to do so by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or having knowledge that any of them have been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may reasonably be seen, he shall be deemed guilty of a Class 3 misdemeanor.

    B. If any person shall conspire, confederate or combine with another or others in the Commonwealth to commit larceny or counsel, assist, aid or abet another in the performance of a larceny, where the aggregate value of the goods or merchandise involved is more than $200, he is guilty of a felony punishable by confinement in a state correctional facility for not less than one year nor more than 20 years. The willful concealment of goods or merchandise of any store or other mercantile establishment, while still on the premises thereof, shall be prima facie evidence of an intent to convert and defraud the owner thereof out of the value of the goods or merchandise. A violation of this subsection constitutes a separate and distinct felony.

    C. Jurisdiction for the trial of any person charged under this section shall be in the county or city wherein any part of such conspiracy is planned, or in the county or city wherein any act is done toward the consummation of such plan or conspiracy.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-15.1; 1960, cc. 99, 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 2003, c. 831.)

    § 18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

    If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-173; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1982, c. 169; 1987, cc. 625, 705; 1991, c. 534; 1998, cc. 569, 684.)

    § 18.2-120. Instigating, etc., such trespass by others; preventing service to persons not forbidden to trespass.

    If any person shall solicit, urge, encourage, exhort, instigate or procure another or others to go upon or remain upon the lands, buildings, or premises of another, or any part, portion or area thereof, knowing such other person or persons to have been forbidden, either orally or in writing, to do so by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or knowing such other person or persons to have been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may reasonably be seen; or if any person shall, on such lands, buildings, premises or part, portion or area thereof prevent or seek to prevent the owner, lessee, custodian, person in charge or any of his employees from rendering service to any person or persons not so forbidden, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-173.1; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)

    § 19.2-19. Recognizance to keep the peace; when required.

    If any person threatens to kill or injure another or to commit violence or injury against his person or property, or to unlawfully trespass upon his property, he shall be required to give a recognizance to keep the peace for such period not to exceed one year as the court hearing the complaint may determine.

    (Code 1950, §§ 19.1-26, 19.1-27; 1960, c. 366; 1975, c. 495; 1978, c. 500.)

    It appears that § 18.2-23 actually says that one commits trespass before the owner/agent of the propertry asks you to leave and you refuse to do so.

    Police generally ask the owner/agent to repeat their request to leave the property so the police can witness you refusal, as trespass is generallyeither a Class 1 or Class 3 misdemeanor (although "A violation of this subsection [§ 18.2-23 , B] constitutes a separate and distinct felony." As we are aware, police generally do not have the authority to arrest for misdemeanors committed outside the presence of the police officer.

    I repeat:
    OCDO membersdo not encourageothers to violate the law, and should not support those who say they do violate the law.
    stay safe.

    skidmark
    That is certainly something to think about.

    Thanks to all for the comments.

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    Guys, just wait for next year when it's not at RIR anymore! Then you won't have to worry about the possibility of being banned from NASCAR!:P

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    sitedzn wrote:
    Guys, just wait for next year when it's not at RIR anymore! Then you won't have to worry about the possibility of being banned from NASCAR!:P
    And when the fair moves to the new fair grounds location, won't that then be state owned land?

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    I think that the SFVA is a privately owned company, but I'll have to check on that.

    ETA: from the statefairva.org website:

    SFVA is a not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization not affiliated with state government.
    In a world where Virginia’s open land and traditions that shaped our culture are rapidly vanishing,
    SFVA’s goal is to keep cherished ideals and experiences alive in the Commonwealth[/i]

  14. #14
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    sitedzn wrote:
    I think that the SFVA is a privately owned company, but I'll have to check on that.

    ETA: from the statefairva.org website:

    SFVA is a not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization not affiliated with state government.
    In a world where Virginia’s open land and traditions that shaped our culture are rapidly vanishing,
    SFVA’s goal is to keep cherished ideals and experiences alive in the Commonwealth
    Wonder if that will include the 2nd Amendment and all it stand for.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  15. #15
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    I have always seen no gun signs at state fair grounds/race track but never any metal detectors. They are hard to miss as they have been right beside the ticket collection/entrance. I choose to not attend because of the absolute press of humanity and the "get-out-of-my-way" attitude of some groups.

    The owners of RIR may apply their rules selectively - NO Guns for state fair and OK for gun shows - however and whenever they choose.

    Maybe this year the signs won't be there. Do you think?

    If anybody decides to go, send/post a picture of any signage please.

    Yata hey
    I took my son and his girlfriend to the State Fair on Saturday for his birthday. The big yellow sign above the entrance gate near the ticket booth was there stating that "For the safety of our guests, weapons are prohibitted and metal detectors are being used". I looked carefully and did not see any metal detectors, so I did enjoy the day albeit CC vice OC.

    I did speak with one of the Henrico bicycle officers and he stated the metal detectors were generally put in place toward dusk when, as he put it, "The unsavory crowd" generally showed up.

    We were there from 10:30AM til about 3PM and the crowd was generally pretty mellow.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764.

  16. #16
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    ThunderRanch wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    I have always seen no gun signs at state fair grounds/race track but never any metal detectors. They are hard to miss as they have been right beside the ticket collection/entrance. I choose to not attend because of the absolute press of humanity and the "get-out-of-my-way" attitude of some groups.

    The owners of RIR may apply their rules selectively - NO Guns for state fair and OK for gun shows - however and whenever they choose.

    Maybe this year the signs won't be there. Do you think?

    If anybody decides to go, send/post a picture of any signage please.

    Yata hey
    I took my son and his girlfriend to the State Fair on Saturday for his birthday. The big yellow sign above the entrance gate near the ticket booth was there stating that "For the safety of our guests, weapons are prohibitted and metal detectors are being used". I looked carefully and did not see any metal detectors, so I did enjoy the day albeit CC vice OC.

    I did speak with one of the Henrico bicycle officers and he stated the metal detectors were generally put in place toward dusk when, as he put it, "The unsavory crowd" generally showed up.

    We were there from 10:30AM til about 3PM and the crowd was generally pretty mellow.
    I've never seen any of the unsavory characters cause problems other than being loud and ugly.
    Lord...you can't sling a cat without hitting a cop. Granted, they are usually talking to the carnie girls...but they are everywhere.

    I've also never had to go through a metal detector...thankfully, I hate going back to the car.


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