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Thread: Channel 4 wants to know what you think about concealled carry

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    http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/29237599.html

    Monday Sound Off: Concealed Weapons
    Katie DeLong

    Every day on Live at 3:00, we have a segment called “Sound Off,” where you can give us your take on a topic.

    Monday’s Sound Off Question: “Should Wisconsin allow citizens to legally carry concealed weapons?”

    Email us your responses at soundoff@todaystmj4.com.

    You can also call us at (414) 967-5304.

    We may use your responses on Live at 3:00 and on our Web site.

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    I also heard on 620 this morning, due to the murders over the 24 hour period the concealed carry argument on the radio. Man it's liek none of these people ever heard of open carry!!!!! Makes me want to walk outside and carry right now.





    Ben

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    To: soundoff@todaystmj4.com
    Subject: "Should Wisconsin allow citizens to legally carry concealed weapons?”

    Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth. Mandatory permitted concealment is just another infringement and raison d'etre for the NRA, selling dispensations, exceptions, from these infringements.

    Gun control is about control, be it from the left or the right.

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    Interesting.

    Not one of the reporters, nor the comments they played, were against the idea.


    - What da hay?

    Keep Calm and Carry On

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    But one of the idiot anchors on there had to throw out the "we just don't want anyone to have a gun like the wild west" comment.

    Thankfully Jeff Wagner responded the most sensical way that you can to people who have irrational fears by telling him that "there was no empirical data from any other state to suggest that would happen"

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    Whatever "to have a gun like the wild west" means. I guess it can only mean "unfettered by government intrusion."
    A. Gold

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    Shotgun wrote:
    Whatever "to have a gun like the wild west" means. I guess it can only mean "unfettered by government intrusion."
    Nah, it means that way back when, there were bodies laying in the dust everywhere you turned. We are much more civilized than that nowadays. We let our bodies cool on the concrete.

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    Unfortunately, due to the "B" westerns of the '40s and '50s and such programs as Gunsmoke, Bonanza, etc. too many people have the notion that the wild west was a long period of time in the country's history when everyone walked around with firearms just waiting for someone or something to shoot and kill. The facts are that the wild west years were but a brief time in history. Roughly from 1849 to about 1910. 60 short years as history goes. During that time most people that pioneered the West were severly challenged with making a living and surviving. They just plain didn't have the time and money to raise cain and mayhem. Certainly there were "hot spots" and infamous bad guys and good guys but they were but a small fraction of the population. The phrase "Wild West" was coined in the dime novels and prostituted by the "B" westerns and unfortunately accepted as truth by too many.

    I haven't been able to find any precise figures but from the information I have found It appears that there are more murders in one year in the U.S. today than in the 60 years of the "Wild West". Starvation, disease and accidents were more of a concern than walking around with a gun on the hip waiting to shoot someone.

    The mind set of the anti-gun people that concealed carry will return us to the days of the old west only reminds me of how easily we can become "brain washed" by the media.

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    To: soundoff@todaystmj4.com
    Subject: "Should Wisconsin allow citizens to legally carry concealed weapons?”

    Good people ought to be armed where they will, with wits and guns and the truth.* Mandatory permitted concealment is just another infringement and raison d'etre for the NRA, selling dispensations, exceptions, from these infringements.

    Gun control is about control, be it from the left or the right.
    Newly registered but I've been lurking here for a while ... Howdy!

    Could not agree more!

    But I gave up on the Socialist Workers Republic back in June and moved to the "Wild West".

    Colorado to be specific.

    Open carry widely practiced (not in Denver area, another 'sanctuary city) and no problem, but if someone complains you might be detained maybe even charged with Disturbing the Peace or Disorderly Conduct neither one a big deal, but the LEO community considers a complaint reasonable cause.

    A person may have a RIGHT to open carry, but to exercise it in a crowded mall during the Christmas season, knowing it will frighten some people (a real case) is IMHO incredibly foolish.

    No charges but the two guys who did that got a long and stern warning and won't be repeating.

    OTOH loaded handguns are okay in vehicles, long arms may have full magazines but nothing chambered. Residents and non-residents alike.

    5 Year CC permit cost $102.50, from your local Sheriffs Dept., takes 60 to 80 days right now because of the workload, shall issue State, 90 Days you get the permit unless the SD can come up with a valid reason to deny it. Renewals are $35, IIRC) for another 5 years.

    Good reciprocity to other states (but only to Permits issued to residents of the issuing state). I.E; FL permits issued to WI resident are a no go!

    Sheriffs Dept. , Motor Vehicle, etc. people were the nicest and most helpful 'civil servants' I've run into in a long time!

    Seems like out here the government LISTENS to the Citizens, used to be that way in WI but that was a LONG time ago.

    Moved here from the S. Milwaukee/ Oak Creek area, and haven't felt this secure in years. My wife is visually handicapped, I need a cane most of the time, and we were unquestionably starting to like like 'easy pickens' 'back home'.

    Crime on the Western Slope (a very gun friendly place) is ... sparse.

    Crime ... well the paper posts the ten most wanted every week, usually car theft or forgery maybe some tools stolen out of a truck, I think there was a murder last spring before we got here, 50 miles away.

    Maybe it's true, an armed society really IS a polite society!

    Best of Luck to everyone in Badgerland.

    Maybe if enough people get out to vote in Nov. things can change.

    'Enough' means a large enough number to over rule the vote fraud coming out of Milwaukee County, Madison and the similar wannabe municipalities.

    Just waiting for the SD to call and tell me to come in and pick up my permit.

    CO's permit is in spite of the Professional Liberals on the Front Range.

    So while I philosophically disagree with the whole permit routine, I'm going along with it here for pure convenience.

    Love it here, but I'd like to think I could return some day and find a WI a bit more like the one I grew up in.

    Again .... Best of Luck!

    Regards,

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    Too bad someone from there didn't call Rep. Ron Kind, who said on the record (in an article in the LSE Tribune following the Heller decision)"

    Kind said he doesn’t have a major concern with concealed carry legislation, “based on the track record of states that do have concealed carry now. I think a lot of the arguments against it haven’t proven out in those states that are allowing it, as far as increased violence in public places or leading to escalation of fights to deadly weapons. It just hasn’t manifested itself in the states that do allow concealed carry.”


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    Maybe if enough people get out to vote in Nov. things can change.
    There isn't anyone on the ballot in November who's going to change anything... Well... There is, but that party will probably get less than 4% of the vote.
    A person may have a RIGHT to open carry, but to exercise it in a crowded mall during the Christmas season, knowing it will frighten some people (a real case) is IMHO incredibly foolish.
    I see cops open carrying in crowded malls all the time... No one freaks out about that?






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    It could be the uniforms.

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    shernandez wrote:
    It could be the uniforms.
    Well anyone can wear a uniform. Shall we design an official OpenCarry.org uniform? (I suggest it have a dancing monkey on it.)

    It could be just that they're used to seeing it. They could get used to seeing us too. With or without a uniform.



    I've OC'd in WI and other states, and nobody has freaked out or paid any particular attention. Do I resemble the police?

    <<<<---- LOL
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    I get what Sam is saying, as well as Shotgun's point. Civility and - disagree or not - manner of dress often do much to simply allow one to disappear amongst the masses. I've yet to have someone run up from behind me having possibly seen the firearm from behind to check and see if I also have a badge clipped to the front of my belt as many off-duty LE will do. (I'm not, and no guys I don't have a CCW badge either.)

    BTW, tohijack an issue from another thread that goes with "appearances"... to use a term that is often MIS-used these days, yes, I profile and feel that in the current threat environment if you're not profiling you're stupid. Has nothing to do with race/ethnicity; has everything to do with situational awareness. An example would be those police officers in the mall just spoken of. If they're not the local mall gendarmes I might give them a harder look than the kid whose crack his showing because his black hoodie doesn't fit well and he hasn't yet tripped over his own shorts. Where are those officers going? (look ahead) Do I want to keep heading in that same direction?ARE they police officers? (I see intel all the time about stolen uniforms.)

    It's not paranoia, it's just being aware and in a calm manner. They could be just as out of place. When others can profile me and judge objectively based on conduct, not their own fears of inadequacy, they will sleep better.

    And most historians will tell you that the wild west simply really wasn't that wild. The times it was, scratch the surface and you'll find alcohol.





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    The whole uniform aspect of it all reminds me of a trial recently. I won't gander to guess which one because I don't want to incite anything, but in many people's opinion it was found that police officers (and the like) are seen as more believable witnesses and authorities on matters.

    Whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to debate I just thought that it was interesting.

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    shernandez wrote:
    The whole uniform aspect of it all reminds me of a trial recently. I won't gander to guess which one because I don't want to incite anything, but in many people's opinion it was found that police officers (and the like) are seen as more believable witnesses and authorities on matters.

    Whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to debate I just thought that it was interesting.
    Oh, I think you're right. That it's true (the perception that is). There are skills that can be taught regarding that as well. If one looks at the witness statements that all jive of what they thought happened in Dickson at the restaurant, and juxtapose that with the objective seemingly polite & professionally written police report filed by one of the officers on the scene later, it's clear that skill exists. I'm glad theyoften have that capacity, because quiteoften witness statements do vary to the extent of being laughable. But the "trained figure of authority" perception is hard to dismiss.




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    shernandez wrote:
    The whole uniform aspect of it all reminds me of a trial recently. I won't gander to guess which one because I don't want to incite anything, but in many people's opinion it was found that police officers (and the like) are seen as more believable witnesses and authorities on matters.

    Whether that is right or wrong isn't for me to debate I just thought that it was interesting.
    Interesting ... and factual!

    The uniform clad officers testimony is taken as authoritative over 'ordinary citizens' every time, Even if the Patrolman's notes were a total hash and his supervisor had to re-write the report a couple of days later. That's how it works far more often than most folks would be comfortable with. How do I know? BTDT (years ago in a neighboring state, plus of course my youngest step-son is in his 7th year on MPD.)

    Exception would be a jury drawn from a group that generically distrusts and dislikes police agents of any description. Mi;waikee has such groups.

    Actually, in my personal experience that unquestioned authority of the LEO is MORE true in WI than in many other states, WI law and dominant culture seems to treat LEO's as Very Special, rather than just another citizen doing his job.

    By the way I OC'd in WI for over 50 years where and when I considered it convenient and appropriate, with no problems. though admittedly not often in the last 15 or so, and not in the larger towns or cities as I didn't percieve a need.

    Good Luck to all you folks in Badgerland!

    Regards,

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    I've been away from the forum for sometime but glad to be back. Glad to see intelligent human conversation again lol. I've been watching the milwaukee news stations and watching my own local situations.......two weeks ago 3 cop cars and an ambulance were called to the apartments across the street from me....still have no clue what happened but with 3 felons and 2 sex offenders living over there I'm not feeling very safe at all.....especially with being on basically a dead end road now that the bridge is under construction....been sleeping with my shotgun loaded and on the floor buy my bed along with soda can's stacked infront of the locked door of my apartment.


    Just goes to show....society is on a downward spiral in wisconsin.

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    I wouldn't go so far as to say Wisconsin's societyis in a downward spiral. It would be rare to go to any neighborhood and not find one person without a record.

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    I was in a jury pool once that was lectured at length by the Judge on felony as a disqualification. When he asked for jurors that thought they might be disqualified for these reasons to approach the bench, fully 80 of the hundred potential jurors lined up!

    The essence of his lecture was that the mere liability for incarceration in excess of 365 days qualified for his purposes as felony.

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