Weapon Retention

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Not to mention, Serpas make you press your booger-hook down where the bang switch goes.
I'm sure only an idiot would cause an ND at the range like this, but try it w/ a blue/airsoft gun when someone twice your size and speed is bearing down on you with a simulated knife. You'll shoot yourself for sure, IF you can even get your weapon out w/ the "child lock" on it

Try it out under those circumstances and tell me how it works. I have.

Stay safe

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ufcfanvt wrote:

Not to mention, Serpas make you press your booger-hook down where the bang switch goes.
I'm sure only an idiot would cause an ND at the range like this, but try it w/ a blue/airsoft gun when someone twice your size and speed is bearing down on you with a simulated knife. You'll shoot yourself for sure, IF you can even get your weapon out w/ the "child lock" on it

Try it out under those circumstances and tell me how it works. I have.

Stay safe

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I'm not sure I understand your post...so you ended up shooting yourself with a goblin coming at you?

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I love my SERPA and use it everyday. It's very secure and lighting fast. I like the ability to have my weapon locked immediately upon reholstering.

Now if they only made it in leather...

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I like my Serpa......







I am looking for something else for warm weather concealment.

Everyone has their own preference, the best thing to do is try them out.



Walker

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another serpa user here, i oc M&P40 with it. i have a kel-tec p11 for CC in a fobus holster

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Venator wrote:

Wait a minute. Kansas has full preemption, that is that local governments can't restrict firearms? If so, I don't see how any city can go against state law. What kind of preemption law does Kansas have if it doesn't preempt anything???? You might want to check into the Kansas preemption law and find this out.

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Cite please.

OCDO map info shows that Kansas does not enjoy state preemption.

Yata hey

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Grapeshot wrote:

Venator wrote:

Wait a minute. Kansas has full preemption, that is that local governments can't restrict firearms? If so, I don't see how any city can go against state law. What kind of preemption law does Kansas have if it doesn't preempt anything???? You might want to check into the Kansas preemption law and find this out.

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Cite please.

OCDO map info shows that Kansas does not enjoy state preemption.

Yata hey

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That was my question Does Kansas have full preemption? I was asking because the previous post stated that Kansas had preemption, I was asking does it have full preemption? You can see my response was in the form of a question.

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+1 for Serpa Blackhawk. The retention system is so unique that I doubt a would-be gun snatcher could figure it out in the time it would take you to react to them.

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cREbralFIX wrote:

SERPAS are crap. I just finished up talking about their easy to mess up retention system. We had done some shooting drills on the ground. In my case, a pebble wound up in the mechanism, locking up the button. Fortunately, I was able to pick it out with a small screw driver and get my gun out of it. I trashed the holster and went back to my Blade-Tech IWB.

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Good to know about the pebble jam situation. I'm not normally around gravel from day to day, so I don't think it would be a problem for me personally, but still good to keep in mind.

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ufcfanvt wrote:

Not to mention, Serpas make you press your booger-hook down where the bang switch goes.
I'm sure only an idiot would cause an ND at the range like this, but try it w/ a blue/airsoft gun when someone twice your size and speed is bearing down on you with a simulated knife. You'll shoot yourself for sure, IF you can even get your weapon out w/ the "child lock" on it

Try it out under those circumstances and tell me how it works. I have.

Stay safe

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About the finger placement, at least with my G27, my "booger-hook" is perfectly placed along the side of the pistol where it should be, so I'm not sure why ND would be any more likely.

And as for the "child lock", the Serpa definitely has a distinct draw technique. Personally, I feel it is the most intuitive out of all I've tried, but maybe that's just me. I'm not sure how everyone else does it, but through practice I've found there needs to be two distinct movements to reliably unholster the weapon from this holster.

1) Firmly press your hand against the back of the weapon with the index finger as straight as possible over the button, applying pressure to the button.
2) Pull straight up keeping your finger straight, which will allow it to end up perfectly placed along the side of the weapon.

I've found if I try to get the gun out in one motion (skipping step 1, or half-assing it), I have problems. I haven't practiced in real-world simulations, but I have practiced enough to make it natural enough to be satisfied I could (hopefully) do it reliably with muscle memory, and it's more natural than a thumb break for me.

I've found with a thumb break, I need to pull the gun outward to get enough leverage to unsnap it, which is just as many steps as (if not more than) the Serpa, but not as reliable for me personally.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. One thing I like is that if by chance a bad guy WERE to attempt to grab my gun, he probably couldn't get it out before I had a chance to attempt to stop him because of the unique retention system. Mine is all black, and it is not obvious the button is actually a button. I also like that, at least for me, it facilitates a proper grip after a draw, with proper trigger finger placement so I don't have to think about where my finger should be prior to engaging a target.

Just thought I'd put in my $0.02 since it's the best holster I've ever tried personally.

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Okay, I'll go on record saying that I own a Blackhawk Carbon Fiber Serpa holster and I prefer it when I open carry. What I dislike about any retention holster is that instructions on how it works are readily available to the bad guys, if they are smart enough to search the web on their stolen laptop.

But I believe that havinga retention system will slow them down enough that perhaps you can respond and retain your weapon or go for your back-up. Those who feel level 1 retention systems aren't secure enough, go with level 3.

The negative, that I see, about a retention system is that fear and panic may make one forget they are carrying in a retention holster. I see a possible curein praticing regularly and using only the same type holsters for all carry guns.

open4years

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open4years wrote:

The negative, that I see, about a retention system is that fear and panic may make one forget they are carrying in a retention holster. I see a possible curein praticing regularly and using only the same type holsters for all carry guns.

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Not a "possible cure" it is the cure. If you take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm with you, than you should have already taken the responsibility, time, money, and effort to train yourself to use that firearm efficiantly and safely in an emergency.

Now if you just bought a gun and than all you ever do is shoot it straight down range without practicing draw techniques, firing offhand, or in different positions... That should be a red light to yourself and you should work to correct that situation.

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David.Car wrote:

Best Retention:

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Gotta agree with David on this one. The first line of defense in weapons retention is awareness. Situational awareness, AKA being aware of your surroundings at all times, is always your first line of defense whether you're carrying or not. Pay attention to your surroundings, make it difficult for anyone to take you by surprise.

Retention holsters may be nice, but anything mechanical can fail, and it's better not to be in a wrestling match for your carry piece, unless you're a really good wrestler, and even then, who wants to wrestle with loaded guns? It also helps to have a plan in place before you need it. And preferably training. If you carry, don't you think it would be best to train to retain what you're carrying? I do.

A quick Google for 'weapon retention training' brings some interesting results:

http://rivrdog.typepad.com/paratus/2005/02/weapons_retenti.html

http://www.policeone.com/weapon-retention/

http://www.personaldefensesolutions.net/Article-HoldOntoYourGun.pdf

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1708240/weapon_retention_training/

And on and on...

Google sez: Results 1 - 10 of about 1,680,000 for weapon retention training. (0.35 seconds) WOW, 1,680,000? Who knew that 'weapon retention training' was such a popular topic on the Internet? There must be something to this 'weapon retention training' thing...

Don't get me wrong, by all means get the best retention holster that you can afford and are comfortable with, and then practice drawing from it until it's second nature to you, but don't stake your life on the holster alone. Get a red gun (for example: http://www.copquest.com/21-2100.htm) and practice disarm/retention drills with a buddy, or take a class. Cheers.

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Remember that when 'searghing' how you type in the search parameters matters. For example typing in [weapon retention training] will search for ANY of the words where typing in ["weapon retention training"] will search for the exact phrase and typing in [weapon+retention+training] will search for ALL the words, but not needing to be the exact phrase, but must have ALL the words...
So my results of just over 1000 are probably more pertinent that your results of over 1mil...
Happy Googleing!

Results 1 - 10 of about 1,030 for "weapon retention training". (0.14 seconds)

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SERPA all the way!

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I agree David. I used the word possible without thinking. Practice is the key so your trained reflex action kicks in without thinking about it.

open4years

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For OC, I LOVE my Glock 21 in the Blackhawk serpa ... I wouldn't have it any other way .... For concealment comfort I prefer it in the Leather Galco thumbreak.

I practice drawing often, in different positions, and climates, low-light and bright sunlight, out of my Serpa and my thumbreak. Never once with either holster has my boogerhook ended up anywhere but on the frame of the pistol just above the bang switch.


~~Springfield

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This argument is ongoing in another thread. I posted my thoughts there, but will post them here as well:

You know, I see a lot of the same old hyperbole about Serpa holsters. Such as the one above and the "pebble in the release switch" story. I say "BOLLOCKS"!

I, and almost all of my fellow warriors over here in Iraq have been carrying Serpas for our M9 pistols and never once have we seen a problem with them. Before you either buy a Serpa or buy into the crap people post on the internet, go check one out for yourself.

The trigger finger does NOT go into the trigger guard when drawing. The finger rides along the lower side of the slide. I have done several battle drills and advanced pistol training involving fast draws of from my Serpa and the finger is in the perfect position to move on to the trigger quickly.

Pebbles CAN block the release mechanism from allowing the weapon to be drawn. The solution is to check your gear. If you are rolling around in the gravel or sand, check your holster as well as all your other gear when you get up. Jamming a holster is just one of the many problems that may occur while you are pretending to be a snake.

Disclaimer: I only use my Serpa for duty. I use a leather Galco paddle holster for personal carry when I visit the "real world" back in the U.S. I personally find it disappointing to see members on this forum post erroneous information. The SERPA holster is a good holster and should be seriously considered for OC. Don't take my word for it, or anyone elses, check one out for yourself.

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ufcfanvt wrote:

Not to mention, Serpas make you press your booger-hook down where the bang switch goes.
I'm sure only an idiot would cause an ND at the range like this, but try it w/ a blue/airsoft gun when someone twice your size and speed is bearing down on you with a simulated knife. You'll shoot yourself for sure, IF you can even get your weapon out w/ the "child lock" on it

Try it out under those circumstances and tell me how it works. I have.

Stay safe

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Apparently you have not, the actual switch mechanism that releases a firearm from a serpa is positioned above the trigger along the frame.

Never does your finger end up over or onthe trigger in a draw from a Serpa. It is up to you to put it there AFTER you have drawn your firearm.

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I also carry OWB in a SERPA for my primary sidearms with the tension set very tight. Even if a BG pushed in the button and started drawing the weapon, it requires a fairly hard jerk to clear the tension while the button is pushed in to remove it. Drawing it at an angle such as in front or behind the carrier is nearly impossible as I have practiced in retention drills with friends. A swing or hard tilt of the hips away from the BG is all it takes to disrupt the draw.