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Soccer mom targeted for carrying gun to game

imperialism2024

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mkl wrote:
imperialism2024 wrote:
Well... signs carry no legal weight in Pennsylvania. So you're not being restricted in any way now that the 30th street station is posted. You can continue to carry concealed on private property, and you can openly carry so long as you're not asked to leave... in which case you must leave or be charged with defiant trespass. Regardless, nothing has changed, it's just that the station has posted its policy instead of just having it in writing.
This is an interesting situation, if the TSA has been given authority to operate on Amtrak, which from the limited research I have seen it has, I would be willing to bet those signs may very well have legal weight. Someone who knows more about what legal authority the TSA operates under, and what federal statutes they could use to limit handguns on Amtrak needs to chime in.

**edited to add**

Looking into this more, just confuses me.

http://www.access.gpo.gov/uscode/title5a/5a_2_.html

"the term "designated Federal entity" means Amtrak, ...... ... and the United States Postal Service;

So I know Amtrak is a federally created and controlled corporation, does that make them federal property? or Not?
Well, I had heard that Amtrak fell under the jurisdiction of the District of Columbia, and thus guns were banned (and had been banned for some time) by law, not by policy. But I don't have a citation for that, unfortunately. And I had been led to believe that Amtrak is a private entity...
 

RU98A

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Another one of those whiners that believe that they have all rights to the 1st amendment but that we should make concessions on the 2nd amendment and keep it concealed at all times to placate the soccer mommies and pantie wetters.

ogroup wrote:
It is the USA here and just making a statement. So it's not hit and run. So please don't start making remarks about someone using the 1st to free speech.
 

mkl

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imperialism2024 wrote:
And I had been led to believe that Amtrak is a private entity...

The line is blurred so much in these weird situations, that I am not sure what the difference between private/public is. Amtrak was created by the federal government, the president appoints their board of directors, all of the Amtrak preferred stock is owned by the federal government, and Amtrak is mentioned in the USC as a "federal entity".
But, do they qualify as "federal property"? And even if they don't, if the TSA has authority to implement rules like "No Guns", that would overrule the PA state laws anyway.
 

Deanimator

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ogroup wrote:
Great. Do you understand that this is a website devoted to promoting open carry?

YES I do and OC as well

Why shouldn't she OC at a soccer game?The audience is mixed

Due to fact she is withsoccer mon & dads, kids, etc that could be anti guns

Do you believe that she should be able to OC ANYWHERE, or is it just soccer games that are out?

Yes, I believe you should OC anywhere with judgement. Would you OC to church?

Regardless of her personal reasons for carrying openly, I think it is insulting to suggest that she is stupid to carry to a soccer game and then not back it up, and just suggest that she is "drawing attention" to herself.


Maybe the word "stupid" should be substituted better judgement.

And your suggestion that if she continues to use her rights, they may stop her seems logically strange. Are you saying people should not use their rights, because someone may take them away? Who cares if they are taken away if you are not using them in the first place.

You could be right but remember the laws can we change and notto our favor. If was not to long ago that the laws were "no guns" they can easily to back tothat ifwe don't watch the gov't.
Why don't you use the actual quote function, or at least put quotes in quotation marks?

They told her that they didn't want her to carry AT ALL. Should she not carry AT ALL?
 

WIG19

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, Wisconsin, USA
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Anyone considered getting back on track and perhaps actually posting comments of support for Ms. Hain on the article's website, using the comments option at the bottom? It is a perfect example of what's wrong with discretionary issue, since Sheriff DeLeo has now, by act, denigrated the character & reputation of Ms. Hain. I'm glad she has an attorney.
 

imperialism2024

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WIG19 wrote:
Anyone considered getting back on track and perhaps actually posting comments of support for Ms. Hain on the article's website, using the comments option at the bottom? It is a perfect example of what's wrong with discretionary issue, since Sheriff DeLeo has now, by act, denigrated the character & reputation of Ms. Hain. I'm glad she has an attorney.
Good point, let's get it back on track. Initially, I didn't feel the need to post supportive comments because, hey, she's doing something entirely legal, ensuring the safety of her family and others, and overall is a model of a good citizen. Apparently not everyone feels that way...

Ms. Hain, go get 'em, and if you must go to court to appeal your LTCF revocation, you can count on my being in the audience to hear the Sherriff laughed out of said court.
 

WIG19

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Yep; in a followup article I believe he understands that he could be appealed and lose that.He's now got to articulate WHY he felt it was LIKELY that she was endangering the public safety.
 

Deanimator

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WIG19 wrote:
He's now got to articulate WHY he felt it was LIKELY that she was endangering the public safety.

...while NOT violating any laws.

In the words of Spongebob Squarepants, "Well, good luck with that!"

The Sheriff is a dolt.

Eventually he'll be a dolt with a large civil judgement against him.
 

Statkowski

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The sheriff may be a dolt. He may have been used by third parties. He'll probably not have to testify in court since the judge may well order the license reinstated without any testimony.

Civil judgement against the sheriff? Don't know about that. The statute does, unfortunately, grant him certain discretionary power concerning licenses, and his invoking such power, however ill thought out it might be, would be a hard battle to fight.

In the end it'll be license reinstated, eggon the sheriff's face, and that's all.
 

WIG19

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Statkowski wrote:
The sheriff may be a dolt. He may have been used by third parties. He'll probably not have to testify in court since the judge may well order the license reinstated without any testimony.

Civil judgement against the sheriff? Don't know about that. The statute does, unfortunately, grant him certain discretionary power concerning licenses, and his invoking such power, however ill thought out it might be, would be a hard battle to fight.

In the end it'll be license reinstated, eggon the sheriff's face, and that's all.
I think this is probably a good call as to the outcome as well.

And the whole problem with the words: discretionary permit.
 

Deanimator

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Statkowski wrote:
The sheriff may be a dolt. He may have been used by third parties. He'll probably not have to testify in court since the judge may well order the license reinstated without any testimony.

Civil judgement against the sheriff? Don't know about that. The statute does, unfortunately, grant him certain discretionary power concerning licenses, and his invoking such power, however ill thought out it might be, would be a hard battle to fight.

In the end it'll be license reinstated, eggon the sheriff's face, and that's all.

I disagree. The Sheriff has painted himself into a VERY tight corner. He has made a PUBLIC statement to the media that he KNEW her activity was lawful and that he revoked her license to "make a point". At NO point has he elucidated any "character" defect on her part which would pose a danger to the community, certainly not one distinguishable from the "danger" posed by a police officer open carrying. In a civil suit, he's going to have to explain how that fits within the specific statutory language giving him the power to revoke. I don't think he can... at least not without him having the power to revoke for literally ANY lawful behavior, whether it be wearing a yarmulka in public, campaigning for McCain OR Obama, or eating meat.

If he gets away with this, he'll be able to revoke ANYBODY'S license for ANYTHING, as many times as he wants.
 

Xeni

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Hi. A friend of mine sent me an MSNBC link regarding what happened to this soccer mom. I wanted to know if there is a PA version of Virginia Citizens Defense League and if they're accepting donations for a legal defense for this fellow OC'r? I'd love to contribute as I both love the sport of soccer and am an OC'r myself.

If anyone here can PM me or post a web URL for donations (if one exists) I'd like to help the cause.

And, of course, shouts out to my PA OC brothers and sisters! :D
 

fingers80002

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Hanover,Pa, ,
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Xeni wrote:
Hi. A friend of mine sent me an MSNBC link regarding what happened to this soccer mom. I wanted to know if there is a PA version of Virginia Citizens Defense League and if they're accepting donations for a legal defense for this fellow OC'r? I'd love to contribute as I both love the sport of soccer and am an OC'r myself.

If anyone here can PM me or post a web URL for donations (if one exists) I'd like to help the cause.

And, of course, shouts out to my PA OC brothers and sisters! :D


PAFOA.org!!!!!!!!

look in the Open &Concealed carry section!



http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/33062-fundraiser-shefearsnothing-ltcf-unlawfully-revoked-open-carry.html
 

Xeni

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fingers80002 wrote:
Xeni wrote:
Hi. A friend of mine sent me an MSNBC link regarding what happened to this soccer mom. I wanted to know if there is a PA version of Virginia Citizens Defense League and if they're accepting donations for a legal defense for this fellow OC'r? I'd love to contribute as I both love the sport of soccer and am an OC'r myself.

If anyone here can PM me or post a web URL for donations (if one exists) I'd like to help the cause.

And, of course, shouts out to my PA OC brothers and sisters! :D


PAFOA.org!!!!!!!!

look in the Open &Concealed carry section!



http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/33062-fundraiser-shefearsnothing-ltcf-unlawfully-revoked-open-carry.html

TY Fingers. Apprecite it.

As a USSF soccer referee for youth soccer I have no problem with any parent OC'ing - as they'd probably be a lot calmer and less inclined to yell at me than a non-gun carrier.

Again thanks and think that it's to our benefit to help one another even if we're not in the same states as the cause is just. :)
 

mombrown1

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Oct 19, 2006
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Upper St. Clair, Pennsylvania, USA
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The Sheriff and LEO's take an oath to protect and defend the constitution of the United States and Penssylvania. That means they must protect the rights of ALL people not just a slelect few. Where in the constitution does it give a person the 'right' to be fearful. It doesn't.

Melanie broke no law. The only disturbance was by those who don't like the sight of a gun.

I carried at a McCain/Palin Rally a month ago without any problems. I did not attempt to enter the secured area but I was handing out cold bottled water to those attending. The only ones who complained were a couple of Obama union protestors and I informed them that according to the law in PA that I had the right to carry and they should feel free to talk to the police. I also carry a PA Gun Law book in the trunk of my car. They did nothing.

For anyone interested in obtaining one of these books call your state representative.

I suggest you contact the Sheriff






Office Hours:




Monday through Friday - 8:30 A.M. to 4:30 P.M.





Emergency Contact:






Lebanon County Emergency Management Agency at

(717) 272-2054





Mailing Address:










Lebanon County Sheriff's Office

Room 3, Municipal Building

400 South 8th Street

Lebanon, PA 17042-6794





Phone Number:






(717) 274-2801 Ext. 2356

(717) 228-4410





Fax Number:




(717) 279-8398





General E-mail:




http://dsf.pacounties.org/lebanon/cwp/sheriff@lebcnty.org

sheriff@lebcnty.org





Department Head:




Michael J. DeLeo, Sheriff




Tell him that his job is to protect the rights of ALL the people not a select few.
 

WIG19

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May 27, 2008
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, Wisconsin, USA
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mombrown1: What? You mean you exercised common-sense BEFOREhand & behaved in a civil manner, and so didn't end up proned out by the SS at the rally? [/sarcasm]

Nice job! - Excellent post, and thanks for relating the experience.
 
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