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Thread: Opencarry.org panders to anti open carry biz

  1. #1
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    Just noticed the Bass Pro ad at the top of the page. Seems like money will always talk. Basspro is very anti open carry and at some store they are anti CCW. I know here in Vegas they are both.



    If someone from OC.org who runs OC.orgcan show me something from Basspro corp that says they are friendly with us then I will eat my words.

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    they're anti-OC in general? or just in their stores?

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    TheCiscoKid wrote:
    they're anti-OC in general? or just in their stores?




    Does it matter? If the store is anti then we should not place ads for them or shop there. If the store is anti that means online and catalog sales are as well.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Well the ads are broken for me for some reason. However there have been straight up anti gun ads in the banners at times. I usually click on those so OCDO can get paid from the funds of those who would oppose us.

    As for Bass Pro Shops, you failed to cite any evidence, so for what reason do you make the assertion that they are anti OC?

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    There's a Bass Pro shop here (Hampton, VA) and I've open-carried there several times. Today, in fact, to buy some ammo.

    My son purchased a Glock 23 there about 2 months ago, and he asked the clerk if it was OK to carry. The clerk told him that a surprising number of folks would come in visibly wearing their guns.

    Today though, as I was checking out their handgun display, I did notice an armed security guard doing the same thing a few feet away. He had approached the display case from behind me. There were only two clerks on duty at the gun counter, who were busy talking to customers, so I had to wait to get a price check on the ammo I wanted. One of the clerks, who is a retired cop, was comparing CC holsters with another customer (both were CCing).

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    I am running adblock, so I have no idea what ads are running, but something you might want to keep in mind is that most ads are simply controlled by a few keywords and the site owner does not have much control over which ones are displayed. I think the owner can say "please stop displaying X ad", but otherwise what happens is the ads see the keyword "guns" and display anything related to that, even "anti-gun". I could be completely wrong (someone who knows about how this site is run can correct me), but I'm pretty sure the Bass Pro ad is running because the ad company saw this site as related to "guns, shooting, outdoors, hunting, etc.".

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    How can Bass Pro Shops be "anti-gun" if they sell guns and ammo? That makes no sense at all.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    How can Bass Pro Shops be "anti-gun" if they sell guns and ammo? That makes no sense at all.
    RIF...no one ever said that BPS is anti-gun, but they are anti-OC.

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    MetalChris wrote:
    Task Force 16 wrote:
    How can Bass Pro Shops be "anti-gun" if they sell guns and ammo? That makes no sense at all.
    RIF...no one ever said that BPS is anti-gun, but they are anti-OC.
    My bad.

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    Task Force 16 wrote:
    How can Bass Pro Shops be "anti-gun" if they sell guns and ammo? That makes no sense at all.




    Just do a search on here under Bass Pro. Put the space in because it returns more. You will see.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Well the ads are broken for me for some reason. However there have been straight up anti gun ads in the banners at times. I usually click on those so OCDO can get paid from the funds of those who would oppose us.

    As for Bass Pro Shops, you failed to cite any evidence, so for what reason do you make the assertion that they are anti OC?




    Just do a search on here for Bass pro the results will show you.



    Also I think that us complete stupidity that the owners of this site would allow anti gun ads. Why? Makes no sense other than they care about the money and that is it. Again still waiting for some response from the owners of this site to explain it all.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Such a search shows me nothing except posts by people who like the chain. The etiquette on this forum is if you make a claim, it's on YOU to cite to authority, so what specifically are you talking about?

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    Thats nothing... OpenCarry.org itself panders to government in that they are asking government for "permission" to open carry. Rather than strongly and unambiguously letting government know that self defense is our "right."

    If we believe that is our right we DO NOT beg government to write laws giving us that right as governments can neither give not take away rights. In that case we are children asking permission.

    Rather if we acted as if we were true Americans, with a spine, we would demand that all gun laws be immediately repealed. We would also demand that clearly worded prohibitions on government passing any new gun laws be made a part of every state constitution.

    Honestly which path makes more sense to you?

    1.) Begging on you knees for your God given rights as if they were a permission?

    2.) Demanding your God given rights?

    In Liberty,
    Joe
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    tittiger wrote:
    Thats nothing... OpenCarry.org itself panders to government in that they are asking government for "permission" to open carry. Rather than strongly and unambiguously letting government know that self defense is our "right."

    If we believe that is our right we DO NOT beg government to write laws giving us that right as governments can neither give not take away rights. In that case we are children asking permission.

    Rather if we acted as if we were true Americans, with a spine, we would demand that all gun laws be immediately repealed. We would also demand that clearly worded prohibitions on government passing any new gun laws be made a part of every state constitution.

    Honestly which path makes more sense to you?

    1.) Begging on you knees for your God given rights as if they were a permission?

    2.) Demanding your God given rights?

    In Liberty,
    Joe
    http://truthtribune.com
    The only people here that think we need to ask for permission to Open Carry are people new to this site, or to the Open Carry concept in general. They are soon set straight on the issue.
    Apparently you need to work on your reading comprehension.

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    quote: "The only people here that think we need to ask for permission to Open Carry are people new to this site, or to the Open Carry concept in general. They are soon set straight on the issue.
    Apparently you need to work on your reading comprehension."



    Thanks for the heads up. I was misled because I have read post, after post, after post here where the underlying assumption is that you need the governments permission to do anything and everything.

    If the position of OpenCarry.org is as you say. Then what are the specific steps that they are taking to insure that our God given rights are protected and recognized as rights as not as permissions? I am admittedly not omnipresent but I have never seen nor heard of any gun group do anything except to beg government like children for permision to do what they want to do.

    That strategy will never get us anywhere as they will just pass 10 more laws and then we will be begging again for laws to counteract the 10 they just passed. It will go on this way forever.

    To use an analogy, the gun group strategy I have universally seen is "hacking at the branches" and not the solution as Henry David Thoreau put it, as "Striking the Root."

    If opencarry.org is approaching this issue differently please enlighten me as I would be very pleased to be wrong on this issue. This is NOT a rhetorical question. Please give me some specifics.

    I think you need to go to the dictionary though and learn the meaning of the word comprehension. One must have knowledge of something before you can talk about "comprehension". I am not clairvoyant.

    In Liberty,
    Joe
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    Oh please, lead us oh hero of the internet revolution. Sorry we let you down by working with the system to get things changed.

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    Seems like you don't have an answer other than a thinly veiled ad hominem attack.


    I can't think of anything any more "working within the system" than demanding the the Federal and State governments follow the law. i.e the Constitution. Can you?


    The path that mainstream America is taking, is going to guarantee a lot of blood shed. What needs to be done to avoid this path is for the American people to understand the reason that being armed is not so that we can hunt deer. To paraphrase Dave Champion "the reason Americans retain arms is to kill tyrannical government officials, and to keep killing them until they stop being tyrannical." A population that thinks that "working within the system" is begging for permission from their government are going to be lambs led to the slaughter. They do not have the mindset that will be needed to do what may need to be done.

    They have the mindset that as they are being led to the Rex 84 concentration camps that they should call their senator!

    On the other hand by demanding the repeal of all gun laws and our right to self defense written explicitly in the state and federal constitutions, besides putting government on notice, will also serve the secondary yet very important purpose of changing the way the average citizen looks at his government. It will force people to realize that they are not sheep but rather sheep dogs.

    Joe
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    The 'net is a wonderful thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84 And my browser that searches about as fast as I can type

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    I'm not sure what you are proposing when you say, "demand that the federal and state governments follow the law". Writing to you congressmen? Openly carrying in places that are "illegal"?

    I absolutely agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't put ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, and that yes, I should be able to own any weapon I can afford to buy, and should be able to carry anywhere I choose, and to use my weapons in any lawful manner that I choose.

    But I still don't get what you mean when you say "demand". Do you honestly think they will repeal all the unconstitutional laws because you tell them to? Or because you point out that they are in fact unconstitutional? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing what your problem with this site is.

    The people that frequent this site are helping to protect the 2nd amendment right of all Americans by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public.

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    Wicki does not have anything good on Rex 84 -look here and you will find better info:

    http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...articleId=3010

    http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004...amps3sep04.htm

    Yes the Internet is a wonderful thing and it scares the hell out of the New World Order.

    Joe
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    You're new here..."Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing world view."

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    Slayer of Paper wrote:
    I'm not sure what you are proposing when you say, "demand that the federal and state governments follow the law". Writing to you congressmen? Openly carrying in places that are "illegal"?

    I absolutely agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't put ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, and that yes, I should be able to own any weapon I can afford to buy, and should be able to carry anywhere I choose, and to use my weapons in any lawful manner that I choose.

    But I still don't get what you mean when you say "demand". Do you honestly think they will repeal all the unconstitutional laws because you tell them to? Or because you point out that they are in fact unconstitutional? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing what your problem with this site is.

    The people that frequent this site are helping to protect the 2nd amendment right of all Americans by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public.
    Slayer,
    I realize that many here have good intentions and that for the most part we are on the same side.

    I don't have all the answers but I am pointing out the problems with the current gun cultures strategy, to get people thinking and possibly coming up with better ones.

    Let me cover some other things:

    You said... "I absolutely agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't put ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms," -- We agree the second amendment has NOTHING to do with our rights to self defense. But many, many gun owner make this mistake and think that it does.

    You also said.... "The people that frequent this site are helping to protect the 2nd amendment right of all Americans by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public."


    I disagree on 2 counts. You said "second amendment right." The second amendment does not bestow any rights to any one. -- The second amendment is an explicit prohibition on government power. You are born with the right to self defense and men had that right long before the Constitution was written.


    There is no such thing as a civil right or a second amendment right. Rights DO NOT come from government. This is not a trivial point but it is something that government has worked on subverting the meaning of for a long time. Why do you think that so many Americans falsely say what you did? It is not by accident. Give government schools a lot of credit for that bit of brain washing.


    You said: "by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public"

    They are exercising a permission my friend, that is why you do not see people doing this in Florida, because they know that their right has been subverted in to a permission. In your state it is a permission because you depend upon a state law to open carry.


    Do you depend upon a state law to hug your kids?

    Kiss your wife?
    Why?

    Because they are rights and not permissions and you would never in a 1000 years think of asking government for permission to hug your kids.
    And you don't need a law spelling out a right. If there is a law spelling it out then by definition it is a permission.

    So why do people, patriots in particular, still revert to asking for permission to defend themselves? Because most still don't understand the difference between rights and permissions and the way this country was set up.


    The first thing to do to head in the direction that I refer to as "demanding" our rights is in educating people. If you don't understand where your rights come from, and what they are, then how the h*ll are you going to demand them?


    The first place to start education is in the gun community, for all the talk about rights etc. I would bet that 90% of the people here do not understand these concepts because if they did they would demand that the gun organizations dramatically change their tactics from asking government to grant them permissions to a tactic of demanding that government in both action and writing recognize the right of all people to self defense.


    I know this was long but I hope it cleared things up a bit. I am anxious to hear ideas on how to proceed from everyone.


    In Liberty,

    Joe
    http://truthtribune.com





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    FogRider wrote:
    I am running adblock, so I have no idea what ads are running, but something you might want to keep in mind is that most ads are simply controlled by a few keywords and the site owner does not have much control over which ones are displayed. I think the owner can say "please stop displaying X ad", but otherwise what happens is the ads see the keyword "guns" and display anything related to that, even "anti-gun". I could be completely wrong (someone who knows about how this site is run can correct me), but I'm pretty sure the Bass Pro ad is running because the ad company saw this site as related to "guns, shooting, outdoors, hunting, etc.".
    That's incorrect my friend.

    No business can run/put up/ or add anything to any site without the site's owner/webmaster's approval first. They would literally have to HACK into the Web Site's Admin CP and perform the correct HTML coding in order to change the face of the site.

    My guess is that the owners of opencarry.org is either giving BassProshop a free ad, by placing a image link to it's website, OR BPS is paying for the add (Not Likely).

    Eitherway Money keeps the website running. Maybe these anti gun BPS's are very few and far between.

    Vegassteve wrote:
    If someone from OC.org who runs OC.orgcan show me something from Basspro corp that says they are friendly with us then I will eat my words.
    Does not the same logic apply to you in reverse ? As in where's your proof ? :?









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    He is correct.....

    Those are most likely Google Add Sense adds and what shows up is not under this sites control. The only choice you have with Add Sense is to drop all of the adds.

    Joe
    http://truthtribune.com


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    tittiger wrote:
    He is correct.....

    Those are most likely Google Add Sense adds and what shows up is not under this sites control. The only choice you have with Add Sense is to drop all of the adds.

    Joe
    http://truthtribune.com
    :?That's not correct either.

    For example. I'm a MoD for several different websites. If I want to simply take an image and embed a link in it, then throw it up on my site, I can do that. Or if my site get's enough hits on it a day, an outside party might contact me (Google) (Visa) (Bass pro Shop) and they will enquire about advertising on my site.

    What they cannot do, is HACK into my website and post their own advertisment.

    Another example. If you were a webmaster with Admin CP access to a website. You could view/edit the RAW HTML coding of that website. RAW HTML looks like this;



    <table cellpadding="1" width="100%"><tr><td class="borderwrap" width="100%">

    <table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" width="100%">

    <th align=center><b><font color=#FFFFFF size=3>Rainbow Six 360 / PS3 Division</font></b></th>

    <tr align=center>

    <td class=row1><b><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Division Staff</font></td>

    </tr>

    <tr align=center>

    <td class=row2 width=100%><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Division Officer (DO): <b>
    <a href=http://www.twhq.org/forums/index.php?showuser=77>TW Ruissimo</a>
    </b></font></td>

    </tr>

    <tr align=center>

    <td class=row2 width=100%><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Operations Officer (OPS): <b>
    <a href=http://www.twhq.org/forums/index.php?showuser=1405>TW MCTJim</a>
    </b></font></td>

    </tr>

    </table>

    </table>


    But in reality what you see, is what the coding calculates. (A normal looking webpage.)

    So for some random person to come in and add an AD on your site, they would have to re-arrange the coding in your site. To do that, thet would have to have your password to your ADMIN CP.

    See ?


    One more example. Take this website - http://p-o-o-p.org/index.php?act=idx

    Notice how there is NO ADs ? To make banner ad's like you see on this site, all of the above metioned procedues would have to take place.







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