Opencarry.org panders to anti open carry biz

Doug Huffman · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

You're new here..."Believe nothing you read or hear without verifying it yourself unless it fits your pre-existing world view."

tittiger · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Slayer of Paper wrote:

I'm not sure what you are proposing when you say, "demand that the federal and state governments follow the law". Writing to you congressmen? Openly carrying in places that are "illegal"?

I absolutely agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't put ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms, and that yes, I should be able to own any weapon I can afford to buy, and should be able to carry anywhere I choose, and to use my weapons in any lawful manner that I choose.

But I still don't get what you mean when you say "demand". Do you honestly think they will repeal all the unconstitutional laws because you tell them to? Or because you point out that they are in fact unconstitutional? I'm afraid I'm just not seeing what your problem with this site is.

The people that frequent this site are helping to protect the 2nd amendment right of all Americans by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public.

Slayer,
I realize that many here have good intentions and that for the most part we are on the same side.

I don't have all the answers but I am pointing out the problems with the current gun cultures strategy, to get people thinking and possibly coming up with better ones.

Let me cover some other things:
You said... "I absolutely agree that the 2nd amendment doesn't put ANY restrictions on the right to keep and bear arms," -- We agree the second amendment has NOTHING to do with our rights to self defense. But many, many gun owner make this mistake and think that it does.

You also said.... "The people that frequent this site are helping to protect the 2nd amendment right of all Americans by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public."

I disagree on 2 counts. You said "second amendment right." The second amendment does not bestow any rights to any one. -- The second amendment is an explicit prohibition on government power. You are born with the right to self defense and men had that right long before the Constitution was written.

There is no such thing as a civil right or a second amendment right. Rights DO NOT come from government. This is not a trivial point but it is something that government has worked on subverting the meaning of for a long time. Why do you think that so many Americans falsely say what you did? It is not by accident. Give government schools a lot of credit for that bit of brain washing.

You said: "by EXERCISING that right in full view of the public"
They are exercising a permission my friend, that is why you do not see people doing this in Florida, because they know that their right has been subverted in to a permission. In your state it is a permission because you depend upon a state law to open carry.

Do you depend upon a state law to hug your kids?
Kiss your wife?
Why?

Because they are rights and not permissions and you would never in a 1000 years think of asking government for permission to hug your kids. And you don't need a law spelling out a right. If there is a law spelling it out then by definition it is a permission.

So why do people, patriots in particular, still revert to asking for permission to defend themselves? Because most still don't understand the difference between rights and permissions and the way this country was set up.

The first thing to do to head in the direction that I refer to as "demanding" our rights is in educating people. If you don't understand where your rights come from, and what they are, then how the h*ll are you going to demand them?

The first place to start education is in the gun community, for all the talk about rights etc. I would bet that 90% of the people here do not understand these concepts because if they did they would demand that the gun organizations dramatically change their tactics from asking government to grant them permissions to a tactic of demanding that government in both action and writing recognize the right of all people to self defense.

I know this was long but I hope it cleared things up a bit. I am anxious to hear ideas on how to proceed from everyone.

In Liberty,
Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

FogRider wrote:

I am running adblock, so I have no idea what ads are running, but something you might want to keep in mind is that most ads are simply controlled by a few keywords and the site owner does not have much control over which ones are displayed. I think the owner can say "please stop displaying X ad", but otherwise what happens is the ads see the keyword "guns" and display anything related to that, even "anti-gun". I could be completely wrong (someone who knows about how this site is run can correct me), but I'm pretty sure the Bass Pro ad is running because the ad company saw this site as related to "guns, shooting, outdoors, hunting, etc.".

That's incorrect my friend.

No business can run/put up/ or add anything to any site without the site's owner/webmaster's approval first. They would literally have to HACK into the Web Site's Admin CP and perform the correct HTML coding in order to change the face of the site.

My guess is that the owners of opencarry.org is either giving BassProshop a free ad, by placing a image link to it's website, OR BPS is paying for the add (Not Likely).

Eitherway Money keeps the website running. Maybe these anti gun BPS's are very few and far between.

Vegassteve wrote:

If someone from OC.org who runs OC.orgcan show me something from Basspro corp that says they are friendly with us then I will eat my words.

Does not the same logic apply to you in reverse ? As in where's your proof ? :?

tittiger · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

He is correct.....

Those are most likely Google Add Sense adds and what shows up is not under this sites control. The only choice you have with Add Sense is to drop all of the adds.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

tittiger wrote:

He is correct.....

Those are most likely Google Add Sense adds and what shows up is not under this sites control. The only choice you have with Add Sense is to drop all of the adds.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

:?That's not correct either.

For example. I'm a MoD for several different websites. If I want to simply take an image and embed a link in it, then throw it up on my site, I can do that. Or if my site get's enough hits on it a day, an outside party might contact me (Google) (Visa) (Bass pro Shop) and they will enquire about advertising on my site.

What they cannot do, is HACK into my website and post their own advertisment.

Another example. If you were a webmaster with Admin CP access to a website. You could view/edit the RAW HTML coding of that website. RAW HTML looks like this;

<table cellpadding="1" width="100%"><tr><td class="borderwrap" width="100%">

<table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="4" width="100%">

<th align=center><b><font color=#FFFFFF size=3>Rainbow Six 360 / PS3 Division</font></b></th>

<tr align=center>

<td class=row1><b><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Division Staff</font></td>

</tr>

<tr align=center>

<td class=row2 width=100%><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Division Officer (DO): <b>
<a href=http://www.twhq.org/forums/index.php?showuser=77>TW Ruissimo</a>
</b></font></td>

</tr>

<tr align=center>

<td class=row2 width=100%><font color=#FFFFCC size=2>Operations Officer (OPS): <b>
<a href=http://www.twhq.org/forums/index.php?showuser=1405>TW MCTJim</a>
</b></font></td>

</tr>

</table>

</table>

But in reality what you see, is what the coding calculates. (A normal looking webpage.)

So for some random person to come in and add an AD on your site, they would have to re-arrange the coding in your site. To do that, thet would have to have your password to your ADMIN CP.

See ?

One more example. Take this website - http://p-o-o-p.org/index.php?act=idx

Notice how there is NO ADs ? To make banner ad's like you see on this site, all of the above metioned procedues would have to take place.

tittiger · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

My mistake they do look like banner adds. I was thinking of another site that was using Add Sense.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

tittiger wrote:

My mistake they do look like banner adds. I was thinking of another site that was using Add Sense.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

It's all good. Web site editing is a Very Long and dark hole that is very easy to get lost in, and most times, VERY expensive :banghead:At least when it comes to hiring coders for your site.

Vegassteve · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Dustin wrote:

Does not the same logic apply to you in reverse ? As in where's your proof ? :?

Sure read this thread.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=12933&forum_id=36&highlight=bass+pro

And this

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/10472.html

Also there issome posts about Hampton Roads. Andalso under some other posts about Cabelas and Bass Pro wanting to trigger lock and not allow open carry. I am still waiting for an answer from the website owners here.

Vegassteve · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

longwatch wrote:

Such a search shows me nothing except posts by people who like the chain. The etiquette on this forum is if you make a claim, it's on YOU to cite to authority, so what specifically are you talking about?

Here ya go.

Sure read this thread.

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=12933&forum_id=36&highlight=bass+pro

And this

http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum36/10472.html

Also there issome posts about Hampton Roads. Andalso under some other posts about Cabelas and Bass Pro wanting to trigger lock and not allow open carry. I am still waiting for an answer from the website owners here.

I am not a glock owner but here is more.

http://glocktalk.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-711406.html

Bass pro is very close to not only being anti OC but anti gun.

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Vegassteve wrote:

Bass pro is very close to not only being anti OC but anti gun.

None of those links are corporate policy. Just mixed experiences with different stores.

Same as Walmart. Some Walmart's throw a fit, some don't. But both Walmart and Bass Pro are SUPPOSED to follow the State Law. You said that yourself.

So If this particular Bass Pro Shop is being an Anti Gun Rogue, then you should report them to Corporate and get some kind of official letter head stating that you either CAN or CANNOT OC in their store.

Eitherway, Look what I found. http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/5884-checking-firearms-cabelas-bass-pro-shops-page-2.html

My name is Steve Kuhn. I am the Director of Loss Prevention for Bass Pro Shops. I currently posess a Mo. concealed carry permit. The sign you mention in your e-mail is for customers bringing in firarms to use on the range or for parts or service. The sign is not meant for customers carring a concealed weapon legally. Our policy clearly exempts all customers with concealled carry permits from checking their guns. If a customer legally carring a weapon attempts to check it they are advised of our policy and are allowed to carry the firearm into our store.

If you have had or know anyone who has had an experience contrary to our policy let me know and I will correct the situation. My email address is skuhn@basspro.com.

I've sent an e-mail to Steve asking about OC in bass pro.

EDIT - From whatI see around the web, the only weapons required to be checked, or those being brought in for repairs or sale. This way when the rep/customer picks it up they don'tSHOOT someone !

tittiger · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

This seems like the pinnacle of stupidity.

If you are carrying concealed it is a non-issue period!

Even if you print lie about it. They need a warrant to look under your jacket or shirt.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Sonora Rebel · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

"They need a warrant to look under your jacket or shirt."

No they don't. Observation is probable cause to detain. If asked for your CCW and you can't produce it... You get arrested and frisked.

If you have problems with OCDO... delete your account. Real simple.

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Sonora Rebel wrote:

Observation is probable cause to detain.

Your strictly talking about Bass Pro right ?

Sonora Rebel · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

No. ANY Private Security folks on home ground anywhere can do this. The do it with shoplifters all the time.

Vegassteve · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Dustin wrote:

Vegassteve wrote:

Bass pro is very close to not only being anti OC but anti gun.

Click to expand...

None of those links are corporate policy. Just mixed experiences with different stores.

Same as Walmart. Some Walmart's throw a fit, some don't. But both Walmart and Bass Pro are SUPPOSED to follow the State Law. You said that yourself.

So If this particular Bass Pro Shop is being an Anti Gun Rogue, then you should report them to Corporate and get some kind of official letter head stating that you either CAN or CANNOT OC in their store.

Eitherway, Look what I found. http://www.pafoa.org/forum/concealed-open-carry-121/5884-checking-firearms-cabelas-bass-pro-shops-page-2.html

My name is Steve Kuhn. I am the Director of Loss Prevention for Bass Pro Shops. I currently posess a Mo. concealed carry permit. The sign you mention in your e-mail is for customers bringing in firarms to use on the range or for parts or service. The sign is not meant for customers carring a concealed weapon legally. Our policy clearly exempts all customers with concealled carry permits from checking their guns. If a customer legally carring a weapon attempts to check it they are advised of our policy and are allowed to carry the firearm into our store.

If you have had or know anyone who has had an experience contrary to our policy let me know and I will correct the situation. My email address is skuhn@basspro.com.

Click to expand...

I've sent an e-mail to Steve asking about OC in bass pro.

EDIT - From whatI see around the web, the only weapons required to be checked, or those being brought in for repairs or sale. This way when the rep/customer picks it up they don'tSHOOT someone !

Funny so have I. And the link you posted wasfor CCW NOT OC. Also you did not read all of the links I posted. They have forbidden OC. This a place, OC.org, that furthers our rights yet is taking money from what so far hasbeen a NON OC store. Again I would love to see something different from corp in Springfield and this sites owners explaining as well.

Here is the email I sent.

Open Carry policy
Thursday, September 25, 2008 12:36 PM

From:

"xxxxx" <xxxxxx@yahoo.com>

To:
skuhn@basspro.com

Hello from Las Vegas,

As you may or may not know Nevada is a lawful open carry handgun state. I would like to know if BassPro follows Nevada law for the store in Las Vegas and I may open carry in the store as I do around town and other places I shop.

Thanks

Dustin · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

Vegassteve wrote:

Funny so have I. And the link you posted wasfor CCW NOT OC. Also you did not read all of the links I posted. They have forbidden OC.

I did read all the links. Some said they've had no problems, some said they have had problems in BP.

Also the link I posted was the source link for the quote I provided. Nothing more or less. It was to verify to the readers here where and who I was quoting.

Eitherway he's the Loss Prevention Manager or something so he's got to know something.

Armed · Sep 25, 2008

imported post

tittiger wrote:

Wicki does not have anything good on Rex 84 -look here and you will find better info:

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROL20060820&articleId=3010

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

Yes the Internet is a wonderful thing and it scares the hell out of the New World Order.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Ahh... the whole, FEMA is the shadow government... concentration camps are already in place... the secret codes on the back of road signs telling the military troops which turns to take because they'll be driving against the flow of traffic... the anthrax vacinations for emergency personnel...

Put your tinfoil hat back on. You have a message from the mother ship.

tittiger · Sep 26, 2008

imported post

Sonora Rebel wrote:

"They need a warrant to look under your jacket or shirt."

No they don't. Observation is probable cause to detain. If asked for your CCW and you can't produce it... You get arrested and frisked.

If you have problems with OCDO... delete your account. Real simple.

It goes without saying that I don't plan on shop lifting while conceal carrying, so unless they are lieing they will need that warrant.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

BTW you if don't like my posts YOU can delete YOUR account even simpler.

tittiger · Sep 26, 2008

imported post

Armed wrote:

tittiger wrote:

Wicki does not have anything good on Rex 84 -look here and you will find better info:

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=ROL20060820&articleId=3010

http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/FEMA-Concentration-Camps3sep04.htm

Yes the Internet is a wonderful thing and it scares the hell out of the New World Order.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Click to expand...

Ahh... the whole, FEMA is the shadow government... concentration camps are already in place... the secret codes on the back of road signs telling the military troops which turns to take because they'll be driving against the flow of traffic... the anthrax vacinations for emergency personnel...

Put your tinfoil hat back on. You have a message from the mother ship.

Why is it that people that lack the intellect to discuss and argue their viewpoints, always resort to ad hominim attacks?

Go back and watch the evening news they will educate you my friend.

Joe
http://truthtribune.com

Dustin · Sep 26, 2008

imported post

Ok so here's the response from Stevethe "Loss Prevention Director", for Bass Pro.

REMEMBER It's an e-mail so read it top to bottom, for the correct sequence.

-----Original Message-----

From: Steve M. Kuhn [mailto:skuhn@basspro.com]

Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 10:15 PM

To: Ducote, Dustin L CTR USA IMCOM

Subject: Re: OC in Bass Pro ?

Steve says;

If open carry is lawful it would be treated exactly the same as legally carrying concealed.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ducote, Dustin L CTR USA IMCOM <dustin.ducote@us.army.mil>

To: Steve M. Kuhn

Sent: Thu Sep 25 15:09:34 2008

Subject: OC in Bass Pro ?

"My name is Steve Kuhn. I am the Director of Loss Prevention for Bass Pro Shops. I currently posess a Mo. concealed carry permit. The sign you mention in your e-mail is for customers bringing in firarms to use on the range or for parts or service. The sign is not meant for customers carring a concealed weapon legally. Our policy clearly exempts all customers with concealled carry permits from checking their guns. If a customer legally carring a weapon attempts to check it they are advised of our policy and are allowed to carry the firearm into our store.

If you have had or know anyone who has had an experience contrary to our policy let me know and I will correct the situation. My email address is skuhn@basspro.com. "

Dustin says;

Hi Steve,

I saw this on a search of trying to find out the policy of Bass Pro shops not allowing customers to exercise their right to defend themselves with a firearm. Your above statement is helpful for Concealed permit holders, but What About Open Carry?

Does a normal customer, who openly carries a firearm for self protection, have to disarm himself while shopping ?

Thanks & Hope to hear from you soon.

Opencarry.org panders to anti open carry biz

Banned

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member