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Thread: The most anti-OC'ing "pro gun" people

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    What do you notice about them?

    To me, they all seem to hail from states with limited gun rights, at least that is what I have seen on other Web Forums like AR15.com.

    Such as this woman in PA - people chastise her for "being stupid and open carrying 'even though it is legal".

    Valid arguments against OC to me only come in for "tactical advantages" (which, depending on your feeling ONLY can make valid arguments) which arguments against OC seem to rarely be (more it is stupid to "show off" your gun).

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    Just because someone calls her stupid for OC'ing doesn't mean they're anti-OC. You're right, people that make statements like that come from restrictive states where firearms are looked at negatively in the public eye. That alone should be enough to make you understand why they would say something like that.

    Personally, I also believe that OC has it's appropriate areas and has it's inappropriate areas. I'm not anti-OC because I think people that are allowed to carry should be allowed to carry however they choose, but I don't have to like or support the decision they make. OC'ing in the hills of Virginia is perfectly appropriate. OC'ing in a Starbucks in a Connecticut is downright retarded. I can goto the mallwith a katana strapped to my back; it doesn't mean it's a good idea or appropriate. Scaring the sheeple isn't on my daily list of things to do, so I wouldn't OC in certain areas/locales. I carry solely for self-defense. I'm not looking to make a statement. That's all personal opinion stuff though, which, I guess, is exactly the point. They're entitled to their opinions too.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Just because someone calls her stupid for OC'ing doesn't mean they're anti-OC. You're right, people that make statements like that come from restrictive states where firearms are looked at negatively in the public eye. That alone should be enough to make you understand why they would say something like that.

    Personally, I also believe that OC has it's appropriate areas and has it's inappropriate areas. I'm not anti-OC because I think people that are allowed to carry should be allowed to carry however they choose, but I don't have to like or support the decision they make. OC'ing in the hills of Virginia is perfectly appropriate. OC'ing in a Starbucks in a Connecticut is downright retarded. I can goto the mallwith a katana strapped to my back; it doesn't mean it's a good idea or appropriate. Scaring the sheeple isn't on my daily list of things to do, so I wouldn't OC in certain areas/locales. I carry solely for self-defense. I'm not looking to make a statement. That's all personal opinion stuff though, which, I guess, is exactly the point. They're entitled to their opinions too.
    This guy ^

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Scaring the sheeple isn't on my daily list of things to do, so I wouldn't OC in certain areas/locales. I carry solely for self-defense. I'm not looking to make a statement. That's all personal opinion stuff though, which, I guess, is exactly the point. They're entitled to their opinions too.
    Some people carry for self-defense. Others carry to make a statement but try to claim that it is for self-defense. That is one advantage of living in the US. Then thereare the ones that carry hoping to get falsely arrested so they can sue for big bucks.

    Whatever floats your boat. :celebrate

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Just because someone calls her stupid for OC'ing doesn't mean they're anti-OC. You're right, people that make statements like that come from restrictive states where firearms are looked at negatively in the public eye. That alone should be enough to make you understand why they would say something like that.

    Personally, I also believe that OC has it's appropriate areas and has it's inappropriate areas. I'm not anti-OC because I think people that are allowed to carry should be allowed to carry however they choose, but I don't have to like or support the decision they make. OC'ing in the hills of Virginia is perfectly appropriate. OC'ing in a Starbucks in a Connecticut is downright retarded. I can goto the mallwith a katana strapped to my back; it doesn't mean it's a good idea or appropriate. Scaring the sheeple isn't on my daily list of things to do, so I wouldn't OC in certain areas/locales. I carry solely for self-defense. I'm not looking to make a statement. That's all personal opinion stuff though, which, I guess, is exactly the point. They're entitled to their opinions too.
    +1
    This guy has it. Another member here I see often signs messages with something like:

    "Concealed carry, Open carry, just carry." (OryGunner IIRC, sorry if it's not an exact quote.)

    I carry open in the non-winter months because it's more comfortable for me (full-framed 9mm). I do welcome any opportunities to educate people, but I don't go looking for it. I'm only concealed in the winter as long as I have my coat on.



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    squisher wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    Just because someone calls her stupid for OC'ing doesn't mean they're anti-OC. You're right, people that make statements like that come from restrictive states where firearms are looked at negatively in the public eye. That alone should be enough to make you understand why they would say something like that.

    Personally, I also believe that OC has it's appropriate areas and has it's inappropriate areas. I'm not anti-OC because I think people that are allowed to carry should be allowed to carry however they choose, but I don't have to like or support the decision they make. OC'ing in the hills of Virginia is perfectly appropriate. OC'ing in a Starbucks in a Connecticut is downright retarded. I can goto the mallwith a katana strapped to my back; it doesn't mean it's a good idea or appropriate. Scaring the sheeple isn't on my daily list of things to do, so I wouldn't OC in certain areas/locales. I carry solely for self-defense. I'm not looking to make a statement. That's all personal opinion stuff though, which, I guess, is exactly the point. They're entitled to their opinions too.
    +1
    This guy has it. Another member here I see often signs messages with something like:

    "Concealed carry, Open carry, just carry." (OryGunner IIRC, sorry if it's not an exact quote.)

    I carry open in the non-winter months because it's more comfortable for me (full-framed 9mm). I do welcome any opportunities to educate people, but I don't go looking for it. I'm only concealed in the winter as long as I have my coat on.


    "Concealed carry, Open carry, just carry."

    Hmm. I may have said it once or twice. Although I have seen others post it moreoften here on OCDO, and it is my firm belief. I don't look down on those that choose to only CC, and would expect the same courtesy if I'm OCing.

    I don't agree with AWDStylez opinion of where is appropriate or not to Open Carry. His main goal is to carry for self defense, and is not interested in activism or making a political statement. That's great! I agree, OC or CC, just C! He has that choice to exercise (or not exercise) his rights how he sees fit.

    My intent by OCing is not to scare sheeple, it's to get them used to seeing guns OCd in public. If someone gets scared, or feels threatened because I have a holstered gun on my hip, it is absolutely their problem, not mine. There is no such thing as a right to "feel" safe at the expense of my liberty.

    I've OC'd into banks, stores, restaurants, coffee shops, and even a roller skating rink with dozens of kids running around(No, I wasn't skating, just dropping off/picking up kids). I choose not to OC at my kids' schools (It's legal in Oregon with a CHL); not because I feel it's inappropriate, but because people are hyper-sensitive about guns at a school and I am sure there will be a severe over-reaction.

    Although I think I disagree with where AWDStylez thinks is appropriate and not appropriate, I recognize his right to his differing opinion. What I can't stand is when other people make their opinions into laws and rules that restrict MY rights.

    ...Orygunner...

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    I've read more than a few opinions ontwo popularfirearms/handgun forums to the effect that; "People who OC are just showing off/making a political statement/have inferiority complexes."; OC is needlessly endangering the person armed & those around him/her, that OC has no place in modern American society, and is just an outdated throwback to the Wild West which hasn't been dispensed with yet.... along the lines of thoseobscure 150yr-old laws stating that you can't beat a goat on Sundays while wearing a bathrobe, etc.

    And invariably, the folks who have the strongest "anti-OC" sentiment are the ones who are uber-tactical in everything they do, and constantly talk as if they've been in countless gun-fights without actually making claims that they're either current/ex SF, SWAT, Blackwater, etc.

    Fine, it's a free country, and everyone's entitled to their opinions. But what gets me is when someone who is obviously a n00b to carrying handguns for self-defense, asks an honest question about the viability of OC for self-defense, and insteadgets a bunch of ignorant baseless claims and/or diatribes against OC.

    I remember one such question on THR or TFL shortly after I joined OCDO. The guy had just turned 21 and had just bought his first handgun. The question was; "New handgun owner,can I carry openly while waiting for CCW?". And the very first reply was; "Yes, but you're an idiot & a liability if you do!". After a bunch of similar comments one open-minded person chimed-in with reasonable pro's to OC'ing, but he was drowned out & attacked for being a rabblerouser Dirty Harry-wannabe, and accused of threatening everyone's right to carry by attracting gun-grabbers' attention. After one particularly vitriolic anti-OC comment, the OP came back to the effect of; "Wow, thanks guys! I didn't realize that it was such a bad & stupid idea to open-carry, because it would make me such an easy target & give gun-owners a bad image! I just won't carry until I have my CCW."

    That's the kinda stuff that aggravates me.

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    I am not sure I want to waste my breath...but especially on CGN...a great site, there are many OC haters.

    Their problem is like with the guy at the morgatge company that says "but wait a minute...that isn't right." As long as they can have it their way....they don't care what it hurts.

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    AnaxImperator wrote:
    After one particularly vitriolic anti-OC comment, the OP came back to the effect of; "Wow, thanks guys! I didn't realize that it was such a bad & stupid idea to open-carry, because it would make me such an easy target & give gun-owners a bad image! I just won't carry until I have my CCW."

    That's the kinda stuff that aggravates me.


    Again, it goes back to what I originally said about appropriateness. What can be used to educate people that are firearms ignorant in New Hampshire, is just going to piss off anti-gun nuts in Boston (not sure if OC is actually allowed in Boston, just an example). So in one case, yes, it can be used as an educational opportunity and it does show the public that good guys carry guns too. But, in the other case, no one is interested in being educated and all you're doing is ******* people off and making gun owners look like a bunch of redneck cowboys. The Idaho zoo meet comes to mind. All that did wasannoy people and make the entire cause look stupid. If making people uncomfortable is your motive, then by all means go for it. If youOC to make a statement or further a cause, maybe it would be wise to carefully choose where you do it toavoid being counter-productive.

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    Yeah, because, God knows, carrying in Idaho sure is crazy.........if you can only exercise your rights where other are "comfortable" with them, then they aren't really rights, now are they? They sound a lot more like permissions. It's people like you that are the topic of this thread....willing to give away their rights for the purpose of making sure you don't make any waves.....so scared are you of the government taking away your rights that you refuse to use them. Got it a little backwards, hmm? As the phrase goes: "A right unexercised is a right lost!" I believe that.....that's why I'm here. If you don't believe that, then why are YOU here? Please tell me, honestly, because I'd like to know. If you don't OC, don't like the idea to OC, then what is your purpose, if not to start infighting on these forums?

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    OC'ing in a Starbucks in a Connecticut is downright retarded.
    Hmmm.... we had at least twelve of us OC'ers in a Starbucks in semi-urban Annandale, VA last week. Fairfax cops walked in twice for coffee and totally ignored us each time. Where do I sign up for the Special Olympics?

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    hsmith wrote:
    What do you notice about them?

    To me, they all seem to hail from states with limited gun rights, at least that is what I have seen on other Web Forums like AR15.com.

    Such as this woman in PA - people chastise her for "being stupid and open carrying 'even though it is legal".

    Valid arguments against OC to me only come in for "tactical advantages" (which, depending on your feeling ONLY can make valid arguments) which arguments against OC seem to rarely be (more it is stupid to "show off" your gun).
    How about exposure to the weather ?

    Any thoughts about pickpockets ? ( just asking )

    David

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    God knows, carrying in Idaho sure is crazy.........if you can only exercise your rights where others are "comfortable" with them, then they aren't really rights, now are they? They sound a lot more like permissions.
    Or privileges.

    AWDstylez wrote:
    If making people uncomfortable is your motive, then by all means go for it. If youOC to make a statement or further a cause, maybe it would be wise to carefully choose where you do it toavoid being counter-productive.
    And if a lot of people can be so damned upset at someone exercising those "privileges", why hasn't the state done away with them? Oh wait.... it's because they're not "privileges", they're rights.

    Mrs. Hain was fully within her rights to be OC'ing in a public place, regardless of the activities being conducted there by a public sports-club.

    Mr. Ex-Judge's opinion that only LEOs should be allowed to carry handguns, and that Mrs. Hain was acting irresponsibly isstill nothing more thanan opinion.... And that Mr. Sheriff the Facsist's decision was based on an opinion & request (more like an order, actually) from a private citizen, ex-judge or not, only further illustrates a pervasive socialist mentality.

    I personally don't OC to make any kind of statement, nor is it my aim to makeuncomfortable or offend others. Hell, that could very well be Mrs. Hain's motives behind OC'ing. As we have every right to OC in places such as a public park, others have every right to complain. But nobody has a right to force someone to leave a public place, or strip them of a legally-obtained & maintained permit, simply because it's rocking the boat.

    By their mentality, Mrs. Hain should be able to write & complain to authorities that Mr. Foundling was making her uncomfortable because he was ordering her to watch her kid's game from across the soccer field. And the sheriff should've revoked his drivers license so that he couldn't drive to any more soccer games. I betcha I know how well a complaint & action like that would go over with the anti-gun crowd.

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    compmanio365 wrote:
    Yeah, because, God knows, carrying in Idaho sure is crazy.........if you can only exercise your rights where other are "comfortable" with them, then they aren't really rights, now are they? They sound a lot more like permissions. It's people like you that are the topic of this thread....willing to give away their rights for the purpose of making sure you don't make any waves.....so scared are you of the government taking away your rights that you refuse to use them. Got it a little backwards, hmm? As the phrase goes: "A right unexercised is a right lost!" I believe that.....that's why I'm here. If you don't believe that, then why are YOU here? Please tell me, honestly, because I'd like to know. If you don't OC, don't like the idea to OC, then what is your purpose, if not to start infighting on these forums?


    Nice strawman you douchecanoe. I'm getting tired of strawmans being usedby nearly everyone here so I'm going to start calling them as I see them. I never said it wasn't a right and making a concious choice to NOT exercise a right is most definitely not equivalent to giving up the right. I also straight up said I support open carry, I just choose not to do so myself because I don't believe it is approriate in the places I frequent.

    As already stated, I can walk through the mall with a sword strapped to my back. I'd be well within my rights and the law. Does that make it a good idea? It's my first amendment right to speak my mind whenever and wherever I want. Does that make it the most prudent course of action if I'm looking to promote the first amendemnt? Hell no.

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    OmSigDAVID wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    What do you notice about them?

    To me, they all seem to hail from states with limited gun rights, at least that is what I have seen on other Web Forums like AR15.com.

    Such as this woman in PA - people chastise her for "being stupid and open carrying 'even though it is legal".

    Valid arguments against OC to me only come in for "tactical advantages" (which, depending on your feeling ONLY can make valid arguments) which arguments against OC seem to rarely be (more it is stupid to "show off" your gun).
    How about exposure to the weather ?

    Any thoughts about pickpockets ? ( just asking )

    David


    Nearly all guns are designed to be used wet (there was actually a whole thread about OC in wet weather)and most people on here that OC use retention holstersso neither of thosethings are really issues.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Nearly all guns are designed to be used wet (there was actually a whole thread about OC in wet weather)and most people on here that OC use retention holstersso neither of thosethings are really issues.
    just because a gun can get wet doesn't mean I want it to get wet. I've covered up more than once because it was raining. It is a valid reason for concealing.

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    compmanio365 wrote:
    Yeah, because, God knows, carrying in Idaho sure is crazy.........if you can only exercise your rights where other are "comfortable" with them, then they aren't really rights, now are they? They sound a lot more like permissions. It's people like you that are the topic of this thread....willing to give away their rights for the purpose of making sure you don't make any waves.....so scared are you of the government taking away your rights that you refuse to use them. Got it a little backwards, hmm? As the phrase goes: "A right unexercised is a right lost!" I believe that.....that's why I'm here. If you don't believe that, then why are YOU here? Please tell me, honestly, because I'd like to know. If you don't OC, don't like the idea to OC, then what is your purpose, if not to start infighting on these forums?


    Nice strawman you douchecanoe. I'm getting tired of strawmans being usedby nearly everyone here so I'm going to start calling them as I see them. I never said it wasn't a right and making a concious choice to NOT exercise a right is most definitely not equivalent to giving up the right. I also straight up said I support open carry, I just choose not to do so myself because I don't believe it is approriate in the places I frequent.

    As already stated, I can walk through the mall with a sword strapped to my back. I'd be well within my rights and the law. Does that make it a good idea? It's my first amendment right to speak my mind whenever and wherever I want. Does that make it the most prudent course of action if I'm looking to promote the first amendemnt? Hell no.
    Douchecanoe? Very adult of you.

    As it so happens, some of us live in areas where it's unwise NOT to carry, even in the home of Starbucks. And sometimes CC is impractical. Therefore OC makes more sense. Just because YOU think one way doesn't make you right.

    Decide for yourself. Don't presume you know what's best in my, or anyone else's situation.

    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    The only person I see presuming what is best for others is AWD and the like.

    So far none of the anti-OC arguments have been supported by any kind of evidence--i.e. "no/loss of tactical advantage", "you'll get it taken from you", "pickpockets" and the like.

    Quite frankly, most people are ignorant or non-observant of what people carry--as that has been my experience when OCing around town.

    So far, the statements regarding people who are anti-OC or who want OC if it doesn't scare someone coming from people who live in "restrictive" states is appearing to ring true.

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    Exactly, SigGuy. That's why I quoted him.
    "All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke


    "I like people who stand on the Constitution... unless they're using it to wipe their feet." - Jon E Hutcherson

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    Bookman wrote:
    Decide for yourself. Don't presume you know what's best in my, or anyone else's situation.


    Hence:

    AWDstylez wrote:
    If youOC to make a statement or further a cause, maybe it would be wise to carefully choose where you do it toavoid being counter-productive.
    Read what is written, not what is preformulated as an "anti-OC" argument in your mind. Much likemy opinion about where you should and shouldn't OC, your opinion abouthow iteffects the cause when you walk around ******* peopleoff is just that, an opinion. If you open your eyes and look atthe reactions to things like the zoo meet, the guy OC'ing at that Obama rally, or people that walk around in military style leg holsters with 7 spare mags and body armor (exaggeration)you'dclearly seejust how much it does hurt the cause by portrayingall of usas ignorant, redneck cowboys.



    As an aside, I've never understood the "impracticality" of CC. I CC everywhere without issue. I'm 5'11" 160lbs and I wear nothing but fitted T-shirts in the summer. Still no issue. What exactly is "impractical" about CC?

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    I'm 5'11" 160lbs and I wear nothing but fitted T-shirts in the summer.
    Neck 12" Sleeve 3" Length short? 'Fitted T-shirt'? TMI

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:
    I'm 5'11" 160lbs and I wear nothing but fitted T-shirts in the summer.
    Neck 12" Sleeve 3" Length short? 'Fitted T-shirt'? TMI


    For those of you in Wisconsin that wear nothing but flannel button ups, a "fitted T-shirt" is simply a tight fitting T, as opposed tonormal, baggy fitting T that would concealeasily. Get out a little more maybe?

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    Doug Huffman wrote:
    AWDstylez wrote:¬*
    ¬* I'm 5'11" 160lbs and I wear nothing but fitted T-shirts in the summer.
    Neck 12"¬* Sleeve 3"¬* Length short?¬* 'Fitted T-shirt'?¬* TMI
    ¬*

    For those of you in Wisconsin that wear nothing but flannel button ups, a "fitted T-shirt" is simply a tight fitting T, as opposed to¬*normal, baggy fitting T that would conceal¬*easily.¬* Get out a little more maybe?
    AWD, how come every thread you are involved in has you using personal insults left and right and very little substance? I guess the only good thing is, that it seems like most people here ignore your personal attacks and continue on the subject at hand....

    Anyway, As far as I have noticed , people who don't like OC tend to be people who are just defensive about all of their positions. They will argue that their way is right about anything, and carry option is just one of them. Mac vs PC, Ford vs Chevy, Glock vs HK. They typically are not the most knowledgeable ones about any of the topics they argue about, they only argue because they feel like they need to defend their positions so that people who know a little bit less than them will look up to them. I am not saying that everyone who argues about such topics is that way of course, some people have preferences of things based on actual facts, usage, etc. However, if I meet a fellow gun owner and they have a strong anti-oc position, it always seems to be only a matter of time until they reveal some other weird positions on something else they are less knowledgeable about.
    I chalk it up to insecurity and their need to feel like all of their preferences are "correct".

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    +1 MKL.....emphasis on the word feel

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    AWDstylez wrote:
    OmSigDAVID wrote:
    hsmith wrote:
    What do you notice about them?

    To me, they all seem to hail from states with limited gun rights, at least that is what I have seen on other Web Forums like AR15.com.

    Such as this woman in PA - people chastise her for "being stupid and open carrying 'even though it is legal".

    Valid arguments against OC to me only come in for "tactical advantages" (which, depending on your feeling ONLY can make valid arguments) which arguments against OC seem to rarely be (more it is stupid to "show off" your gun).
    How about exposure to the weather ?

    Any thoughts about pickpockets ? ( just asking )

    David


    Nearly all guns are designed to be used wet (there was actually a whole thread about OC in wet weather)and most people on here that OC use retention holstersso neither of thosethings are really issues.
    Can u point me toward that thread ? Sounds interesting.

    How do u define a " retention holster " ?

    David

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