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Thread: Virginia Online Gun Course for (Concealed Handgun Permit) CHP = $39

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Whoever asked me for the link to the $39 online gun course, I deleted your PM by accident.

    The link is here: http://tinyurl.com/vachp

    This might be a good start and let you pass the requirement but I would still encourage anyone after taking the online course.. to go take one in person with live fire. I found folks that have come to me for training were much better informed after first taking the online course.

    Ed
    Carry On.

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    Bob's Gun Shop in Norfolk, CHP course$40 including range (25 rounds).

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Do people really still consider this a good idea? I know we've discussed this before.

    As an instructor, this course ranks right up there to me with the old 1970's "Draw Snuffy the Elephant" program to learn art at home. I saw someone recently commented on this type of course and I loved their statement. It was basically to the effect of "tell the judge and jury that you learned firearm safety from an online program taught by an instructor that never laid eyes on you".

    That's one of the things that I like about the Utah permit course that we offer. Utah BCI actually mandates that you must take the course in class from a live instructor and that it cannot be done through electronic means. I guess they see the light....


    James Reynolds

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    Pro, ever offered Utah in Hampton Roads? If not, who does?

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Do people really still consider this a good idea?
    I only consider it a "good idea" if the person is not going to take any other course at all.

    There are people that go to the gun store and buy a gun and or buy from a friend and are "self trained". The online course (in my opinion) is a baby step in the right direction... and better than NO step.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    tripledipper wrote:
    If not, who does?
    Phil Van Cleave does UTAH in Richmond area

    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    tripledipper wrote:
    Pro, ever offered Utah in Hampton Roads? If not, who does?
    We usually get folks from HR to come here to Richmond for the Utah course.

    I'll go anywhere that someone wants if they have enough folks and a place for me to teach. I did just have a request for a custom class from the VB/Norfolk area but I dont know any details yet. If you have a few folks and a location, just let me know and I'll come out there.
    James Reynolds

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    My wife took this online course and used the certificate to get her CCW. It was an hour long video with 20 questions at the end. I listened in while sitting across the room working on other stuff, but from what I heard, it did a decent job of going over the laws, expectations, etc.

    She still wants to get in some real pistol training, but this was a nice way to get her CCW requirement out of the way.

    Training is great, but as a strict constitutionalist I don't see a clause in the 2nd that says anything about it being required. Obviously, I'm not for gov't mandated training. VT and AK seem to be doing just fine without such a requirement (or license even).

    I do realize that the gains we've made regarding CCW and reciprocity are a direct result of state mandated training requirements, so in that respect, although I don't agree with it, it's something I'm willing to live with.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Do people really still consider this a good idea? I know we've discussed this before.

    ....snip
    Yes and discussed before that a Hunter Safety course and DD214 qualify too. That's the way laws and rules are written.

    I understand your personal feelings but point out that OC requires no training, only the exercise of a right. So our legislators have chosen to make a distinction between OC and CC, we do not have to further that divide.

    Am I opposed to training, minimal and advanced? Very much to the contrary. I'm still learning - never enough for me.......personally.

    Never had to take a minimum required course to exercise the 1st Amendment either.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Do people really still consider this a good idea? I know we've discussed this before.

    ....snip
    Yes and discussed before that a Hunter Safety course and DD214 qualify too. That's the way laws and rules are written.

    I understand your personal feelings but point out that OC requires no training, only the exercise of a right. So our legislators have chosen to make a distinction between OC and CC, we do not have to further that divide.

    Am I opposed to training, minimal and advanced? Very much to the contrary. I'm still learning - never enough for me.......personally.

    Never had to take a minimum required course to exercise the 1st Amendment either.

    Yata hey
    The issue for me is not that the law requires a training course. It is what it is and if we want to change that, we know the legal path in which to take.

    My issue is that a one hour online course is a weak substitute for a training course.
    James Reynolds

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    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Do people really still consider this a good idea? I know we've discussed this before.

    ....snip
    Yes and discussed before that a Hunter Safety course and DD214 qualify too. That's the way laws and rules are written.

    I understand your personal feelings but point out that OC requires no training, only the exercise of a right. So our legislators have chosen to make a distinction between OC and CC, we do not have to further that divide.

    Am I opposed to training, minimal and advanced? Very much to the contrary. I'm still learning - never enough for me.......personally.

    Never had to take a minimum required course to exercise the 1st Amendment either.

    Yata hey
    The issue for me is not that the law requires a training course. It is what it is and if we want to change that, we know the legal path in which to take.

    My issue is that a one hour online course is a weak substitute for a training course.
    I disagree with you. A one-hour online course is completely different from a firearms shooting training course, and each serves a separate and distinct purpose.

    While it is preferable that anyone who carries a firearm have some training in the safe and accurate shooting of the weapon, there is NO law currently on the books that mandates that they must, ought to, should, better have taken such a course before they either carry or shoot the firearm.

    And as far as I am concerned, there NEVER ought to be suh a law, and NOBODY ought to act in any way to encourage the General Assembly to think about imposing such a requirement.

    A person who does not seek out and obtain training in the manual of arms for their firearm must accept all liability for any harm they cause through misuse, just as they must accept liability for any violation of law they commit. Strangely, the same holds true for someone who has extensive training in both the manual of arms for their firearm and legal/moral training regarding the use of said firearm.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Grapeshot wrote:
    ProShooter wrote:
    Do people really still consider this a good idea? I know we've discussed this before.

    ....snip
    Yes and discussed before that a Hunter Safety course and DD214 qualify too. That's the way laws and rules are written.

    I understand your personal feelings but point out that OC requires no training, only the exercise of a right. So our legislators have chosen to make a distinction between OC and CC, we do not have to further that divide.

    Am I opposed to training, minimal and advanced? Very much to the contrary. I'm still learning - never enough for me.......personally.

    Never had to take a minimum required course to exercise the 1st Amendment either.

    Yata hey
    The issue for me is not that the law requires a training course. It is what it is and if we want to change that, we know the legal path in which to take.

    My issue is that a one hour online course is a weak substitute for a training course.
    I disagree with you. A one-hour online course is completely different from a firearms shooting training course, and each serves a separate and distinct purpose.

    While it is preferable that anyone who carries a firearm have some training in the safe and accurate shooting of the weapon, there is NO law currently on the books that mandates that they must, ought to, should, better have taken such a course before they either carry or shoot the firearm.

    And as far as I am concerned, there NEVER ought to be suh a law, and NOBODY ought to act in any way to encourage the General Assembly to think about imposing such a requirement.

    A person who does not seek out and obtain training in the manual of arms for their firearm must accept all liability for any harm they cause through misuse, just as they must accept liability for any violation of law they commit. Strangely, the same holds true for someone who has extensive training in both the manual of arms for their firearm and legal/moral training regarding the use of said firearm.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    We are not discussing a live shooting course vs. the law, that is not the issue. Neither is the argument of CC vs. OC and the legal requirements of each. This is not a debate about Second Amendment rights.

    The issue that I have is watching a one hour video isin my opinion a poor substitute for goinginto a classroom environment.Sitting in a classroom, asking questions, the the instructor looking at you and knowing that you areunderstanding the information - that's all part of training. Putting a frame, slide, etc in someone's hands and showing them things. Having others ask questions that they may not have thought of themselves. Having the benefit of another student asking something that may not be in the program but is an excellent question, helping someone fill out the CHP application. All of this is vastly different than watching a one hour video.
    James Reynolds

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    bnkrazy wrote:
    My wife took this online course and used the certificate to get her CCW. It was an hour long video with 20 questions at the end. I listened in while sitting across the room working on other stuff, but from what I heard, it did a decent job of going over the laws, expectations, etc.

    She still wants to get in some real pistol training, but this was a nice way to get her CCW requirement out of the way.

    Training is great, but as a strict constitutionalist I don't see a clause in the 2nd that says anything about it being required. Obviously, I'm not for gov't mandated training. VT and AK seem to be doing just fine without such a requirement (or license even).

    I do realize that the gains we've made regarding CCW and reciprocity are a direct result of state mandated training requirements, so in that respect, although I don't agree with it, it's something I'm willing to live with.
    +1 to all.
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    a one hour online course is a weak substitute for a training course.
    I agree 100%
    Carry On.

    Ed

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    All of this is vastly different than watching a one hour video.
    You just don't get it, do you?

    All the training in the world is exactly as good asone hour of onlinetraining when it comes down to whether or not you are going to qualify for that Concealed Handgun Permit.

    And that was the issue. Nothing else. Just "What training can you get to qualify for the Concealed Handgun Permit?"

    Everything else is just what could, might, possibly make a person more familiar with their personal firearm(s) and could, might, possibly make them a better shooter. But nobody but you was talking about what could, might, possibly make them more familiar with their firearm and/or a better shooter.

    Farking instructors with a commercial adgenda . Stick to the topic at hand, OK?

    And you, too, Ed. .

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * edited to add Ed to my list of headaches.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    What we are discussing is "Do people really still consider this a good idea?"

    This refers to on-line courses, hunter safety courses, DD214s at al and the answer is decidedly YES, people really do think this is OK. In fact there are those that think it is too much.

    I'll answer you this way, if it ain't broke don't fix it. CHP holders are demonstratably safer than ....well you fill in the blank as I don't wish to be called to cite - NWTT.

    I don't imply that the higher the level of training offered is not beneficial but it should not be a requirement to either OC or CC. Yes I group them together because I see them as the same right.

    Yata hey
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    All of this is vastly different than watching a one hour video.
    You just don't get it, do you?

    All the training in the world is exactly as good asone hour of onlinetraining when it comes down to whether or not you are going to qualify for that Concealed Handgun Permit.

    And that was the issue. Nothing else. Just "What training can you get to qualify for the Concealed Handgun Permit?"

    Everything else is just what could, might, possibly make a person more familiar with their personal firearm(s) and could, might, possibly make them a better shooter. But nobody but you was talking about what could, might, possibly make them more familiar with their firearm and/or a better shooter.

    Farking instructors with a commercial adgenda . Stick to the topic at hand, OK?

    And you, too, Ed. .

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * edited to add Ed to my list of headaches.
    If I offered you a free Twenty Dollar bill, you'd disagree with me that I should have given you 2 Tens and now some agent of the state is going to tax you more because you got a twenty and somehow your rights have been inhibited due to this....typical Skidmark.

    This has nothing to do with a commercial agenda. It has nothing to do with your Second Amendment rights- it has to do with quality of training.

    You really should change your screen name to "completelymissedthemark"
    James Reynolds

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    skidmark, There are two separate issues here I think you are getting mixed up.

    1) Whether or not a 1 hour video offers the same benefits as a instructor led, face to face training course (with or without live fire).

    2) Whether or not training is or should be required for obtaining a CCW or OCing.

    I think we all agree that the two types of training are not equal. In-person training is obviously vastly superior due to the reasons listed here and many more, I'm sure.

    The issue of what should be a requirement for obtaining a CCW is a separate issue, and one we all have varying views on.

    All ProShooter seems to be saying is that the training is not equal. I agree with that. Just because he doesn't think that the online course is good training doesn't mean he wants the gov't to require more training for a CCW permit. He said a one hour online course isn't the best option available. I didn't see him say he wanted more gov't mandated training.

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    Too funny because a friend JUST asked me about training requirements for CCW.

    I emailed him a few minutes ago with the link that I had also given to another friend earlier this year.

    This course is accepted in FFX.

    Obviously.... there is no hand on gun time... but that is something you can do with a friend that can shoot. No need to pay for instructor time if you have friends.



  20. #20
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    bnkrazy wrote:
    skidmark, There are two separate issues here I think you are getting mixed up.

    1) Whether or not a 1 hour video offers the same benefits as a instructor led, face to face training course (with or without live fire).

    2) Whether or not training is or should be required for obtaining a CCW or OCing.

    I think we all agree that the two types of training are not equal. In-person training is obviously vastly superior due to the reasons listed here and many more, I'm sure.

    The issue of what should be a requirement for obtaining a CCW is a separate issue, and one we all have varying views on.

    All ProShooter seems to be saying is that the training is not equal. I agree with that. Just because he doesn't think that the online course is good training doesn't mean he wants the gov't to require more training for a CCW permit. He said a one hour online course isn't the best option available. I didn't see him say he wanted more gov't mandated training.
    Thank you! Someone gets it!
    James Reynolds

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    Going to a Proactive Shooters basic knowledge, get-your-CHP course is kinda like watching the video, being that you don't get to live fire. You might get to hold a slide and whatnot, but a new owner with an instruction manual and the video would be capable of doing the same, I believe.

    Just... stirring up stuff.

  22. #22
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    curtiswr wrote:
    Going to a Proactive Shooters basic knowledge, get-your-CHP course is kinda like watching the video, being that you don't get to live fire. You might get to hold a slide and whatnot, but a new owner with an instruction manual and the video would be capable of doing the same, I believe.

    Just... stirring up stuff.
    Now Curtis, we have enough 'stuff' being stirred here!

    If you'd like to continue your training past the basic course and do some live fire exercises, I'd be happy to provide that training. I highly recommend it.

    Training with firearms is something that we should endeavor to maintain on a regular basis.
    James Reynolds

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    Is it free except range costs? If not I get a better deal going to the range and asking someone there more knowledgeable than myself for assistance. :P

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    skidmark wrote:
    All of this is vastly different than watching a one hour video.
    You just don't get it, do you?

    All the training in the world is exactly as good asone hour of onlinetraining when it comes down to whether or not you are going to qualify for that Concealed Handgun Permit.

    And that was the issue. Nothing else. Just "What training can you get to qualify for the Concealed Handgun Permit?"

    Everything else is just what could, might, possibly make a person more familiar with their personal firearm(s) and could, might, possibly make them a better shooter. But nobody but you was talking about what could, might, possibly make them more familiar with their firearm and/or a better shooter.

    Farking instructors with a commercial adgenda . Stick to the topic at hand, OK?

    And you, too, Ed. .

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    * edited to add Ed to my list of headaches.
    While I disagree with training as a requirement - it is your prerogative as a gun owner who carries to train yourself.

    Not just that you are "safe" but so you can shoot well, learn advanced techniques, ect. If you are depending on the tool to help save your life, then you should know how to use it to its fullest extent.

    This can be done in a lot of ways, 1) paying a teacher, 2) IDPA, and the list goes on.

    It is irresponsible not to have further training other than "just buying a gun and knowing to pull the trigger" - learning from others can be free and you should get as much practice as possible

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    ProShooter wrote:
    The issue that I have is watching a one hour video isin my opinion a poor substitute for goinginto a classroom environment.
    So, what's your opinion if I take my DD214 down to get a CHP instead of taking a class? I mean, I can do that INSTEAD of taking a class, right?

    Keep in mind, I live-fired an M-16A2 a grand total of three times when I was in, and that was going on five years ago.

    Go Air Force!

    curtiswr wrote:
    Is it free except range costs? If not I get a better deal going to the range and asking someone there more knowledgeable than myself for assistance. :P
    Also, this. I've learned a lot out at Hite Hollow.

    ed wrote:
    2. I don't think training should be REQUIRED but I very stongly encourage it.
    And this.

    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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