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Thread: Pittsburg Zoning Hearing to Consider Largely Banishing Gun Related Business from City on 2 OCT 08

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    A time urgent message from:

    Harry Schneider, Legislative Chairman, Pennsylvania Sportsmen’s Association, (The PSA)

    On THURSDAY, October 2, at 10:00 a.m., the Pittsburgh Board of Zoning Adjustment will hear an appeal brought by pro-gun rights attorney Peter Georgiades.

    Mr. Georgiades is challenging the legality of a recently enacted provision in the Pittsburgh zoning code which singles out "gun related businesses" (meaning any business which requires a license from BATFE) for special zoning.

    The zoning is very restrictive, disallowing "gun-related businesses" from most locations within the City which are zoned commercial, and it applies only to businesses which in any way involves the “sale” of firearms, “either by wholesale or retail, mail order or any other manner.” These special burdens and restrictions include:

    (a) Restricting the number and types of zoning districts in which any business which engages in the transfer of firearms in any manner may be located, limiting their location to industrial districts or downtown;
    (b) Making any business which engages in the transfer of firearms in any manner a “conditional use” in every zoning district in which they are allowed at all;
    (c) Prohibiting any business which involves the transfer of ownership in firearms in any manner within specified distances of schools, playgrounds, public or non-profit recreation facilities (but not for-profit recreation facilities), drug or alcohol rehabilitation centers, houses of worship or “gaming enterprises.”
    (d) Requiring unspecified “security” precautions with respect to one who engages in the transfer of firearms, in addition to those already required under Federal law.

    This zoning law is based upon an unspoken and unsupportable presumption that gun-related businesses are dangerous, corrupting of youth, or otherwise harmful or undesirable anywhere near, inter alia, schools, churches, residences, or playgrounds. Georgiades maintains this zoning law is like those which have been successfully used to completely drive adult uses out of many cities (including Pittsburgh), with two important differences. One is that special zoning for adult uses was supported by evidence of adverse "secondary effects" of adult speech. The other is that the Legislature in Pennsylvania has expressly preempted laws designed to regulate the posses and transfer of firearms.

    The preemption provision provides: "– No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth." This is clearly an attempt to end-run the preemption statute, and regulate, in some manner, the transfer of firearms.



    People who want to actually do something about discrimination against gun owners can help by attending the hearing. There is a sign-in sheet next to the door. Those who care about 2nd Amendment rights should attend and indicate that they "support" the appeal.
    The hearing room is on the first floor of the ROBIN CIVIC BUILDING, 200 ROSS STREET (which is at the intersection of Second Avenue and Ross Street - near the wall mural of the Pittsburgh Pirate players).

    This case is important to the continued commercial availability of firearms and ammunition within the City of Pittsburgh. If the City of Pittsburgh is able to zone out firearms dealers, any township or municipality in Pennsylvania with an anti-gun agenda can - and most probably will - seize this opportunity.

    Opinions from residents of Pittsburgh residents will carry the most weight.
    However, any citizen may attend and tell the board that they are in favor of
    the appeal.

    Please mark your calendar and attend if possible.
    Harry Schneider, Legislative Chairman
    Pennsylvania Sportsmen's Assn., (PSA)
    e-mail psa@pagunlaws.com


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    That's actually kind of funny its on October 2nd. Thats the same day I have to appear before a magistrate and fight an unlawful citation for open carrying in the city of Pittsburgh. Apparently, an OC ban is still on the books in Pittsburgh and the cop who gave me the citation (and his 19 cohorts who showed up to back him up) didn't want to hear anything about state pre-emption or PA Statute 6120.

    Thats at 8am. Once I'm finished wiping the floor with that matter I guess I can swing by after that and voice my dissent for the zoning commission.



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    Prophet wrote:
    That's actually kind of funny its on October 2nd. Thats the same day I have to appear before a magistrate and fight an unlawful citation for open carrying in the city of Pittsburgh. Apparently, an OC ban is still on the books in Pittsburgh and the cop who gave me the citation (and his 19 cohorts who showed up to back him up) didn't want to hear anything about state pre-emption or PA Statute 6120.

    Thats at 8am. Once I'm finished wiping the floor with that matter I guess I can swing by after that and voice my dissent for the zoning commission.

    What is the location of your hearing?

    This is interesting - in the first couple weeks of october there will be 3 open carry judicial hearings:

    1. Prophet for OC in violation iof an illegal Pittsburgh ordiance. 2 OCT at 8AM in Pittsburgh at 660 First Ave. PittsburghMunicipal Court - Second Floor.

    2. Meleanie Hain appeal of Sheriff DeLeo revocation:2:30pm on 14 Oct,in courtroom 1, Lebanon, PA.

    3. Jack Nobles hearing re his charges of Disorderly Conduct and Disrupting a Meeting/Procession for open carry in a park where no meeting was taking place: 9AMon 6 OCT at _________________; see http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketS...=CR-0000345-08.


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    Mike wrote:
    1. Prophet for OC in violation iof an illegal Pittsburgh ordiance. 8AM in Pittsburg at ______.

    660 First Ave. PittsburgH Municipal Court - Second Floor.

    If anyone is interested in showing up and watch meput thesmackdowm on all the illegal bull that was thrown my way from when this citation was given you are more than welcome.



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    Prophet wrote:
    660 First Ave. PittsburgH Municipal Court - Second Floor.

    If anyone is interested in showing up and watch meput thesmackdowm on all the illegal bull that was thrown my way from when this citation was given you are more than welcome.
    What ordinance were you charged with violating? Can you post aredacted summons?

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    § 607.06 CARRYING OF OPERABLE FIREARMS PROHIBITED.

    No person shall carry in any vehicle or concealed or unconcealed on or about his person except when on his or her land or in his or her own abode or fixed place of business any firearm; provided that this section shall not apply to:

    (a)Those persons specifically exempted under 18 P.S. Sec. 6106(b)(1-10); or

    (b)Any person issued a valid license to the Pennsylvania Uniform Firearms Act when carrying the type of weapon for which such license was issued.

    (Ord. 11-1980, eff. 7-25-80; Am. Ord. 30-1993, eff. 12-9-93)

    Since I was open carrying and refused to show my LTCF to the officer he gave me this citation. Considering that the City of Pittsburgh CANNOT prohibit the unconcealed carrying of a firearm because the State does not prohibit it (save forPhilladelphia), I shouldn't have any problem winning this case.

    I don't have a scanner at the moment or else I would show you the summons.

    And for those of you who haven't read PA's firearm pre-emption (and for all you LEO lurkers who like to read what I write online) here it is:

    § 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and
    ammunition.
    (a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may
    in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession,
    transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition
    components when carried or transported for purposes not
    prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.

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    REMINDER: The Anti-gun zoning hearing is tomorrow - the building does not appear to be a courthouse or a school, so open carry should be 100% lawful:

    --

    http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=4194





    Pennsylvania: Pittsburgh Zoning Code Violates Second Amendment Rights!



    Monday, September 29, 2008




    Please Make Plans to Attend This Event!

    On Thursday, October 2, at 10:00am, Peter Georgiades, a Second Amendment rights attorney, will be challenging the legality of a recently enacted provision in the Pittsburgh zoning code. This provision restricts “gun-related businesses” from being established within city limits, even if the lot is zoned for commercial use. This provision only applies to businesses that are in any way involved with the “sale” of firearms. This is another blatant attack on the firearm industry and Pennsylvania’s law-abiding citizens.

    Please make plans to try and attend this important meeting!

    Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008
    Time: 10:00 a.m.
    Location: Robin Civic Building
    200 Ross Street, First Floor
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219
    Details: A sign-in sheet will be provided next to the door.

    If you cannot attend, please contact the members of the zoning board at (412) 255-2231 and let them know that you support Mr. Georgiades appeal.

    Board members are listed below:

    Wrenna L. Watson, Chairwoman
    Alice B. Mitinger
    David F. Toal


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    So i went, open carrying as I do...

    The wheels of government grind to an ear piercing squeel as it slowly moves forward. Peter did all right though it seemed like he and one of the board members got to talking in circles for a while. The board kept on stating that pre-emption may not include zoning that specificially targets gun shops.

    At one point, a pawn of the council member whose district has the south side in it says that Georgiades could move his law firm a few blocks away and that would be all right. That got me thinking...Rosa Parks could always ride the bus...she just had tosit where they told her. This smacks of the same kind of bigotry...pick up where you are and move to where we tell you even though we don't have the legal right to do so.

    Anyways, after this snoozefest, instead of getting some sort of resolution theopposition asked for a week to get members of thesouth side community together to make an amicus brief and cry and moan about gun running, gang violence, THE CHILDREN, etc. This could take as little as 53 days or as many as 75 days before it is resolved. And the wheels just keep on creakin along.

    On a side note,for those of you who are on pafoa.com I ran into annieoakley there.

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    Any news coverage of this meeting?

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    Mike wrote:
    Any news coverage of this meeting?
    I didn't see any cameras there.

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    Prophet wrote:
    So i went, open carrying as I do...

    On a side note,for those of you who are on pafoa.com I ran into annieoakley there.
    shoot. i wish i had met you guys.

    i was the one who "testified" in support of pete...though pete pretty much covered it all, so there wasn't much else for me to say.

    give me a description of yourselves, where you were sitting, etc. so i can put a face with the names.

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    Prophet wrote:
    Peter did all right though it seemed like he and one of the board members got to talking in circles for a while. The board kept on stating that pre-emption may not include zoning that specificially targets gun shops.

    the zoning board was also trying very hard to come up with a way to make the ordinance not apply to pete so that he loses his standing to challenge it.

    the strategy would be to say that, since he is not trying to open a retail gun store, the ordinance would not apply to him. that way, they can let pete get his FFL without having to overturn the ordinance. thus, pete would lose his standing to challenge it further and actual retail gun stores would still be effectively prohibited via this ordinance.

    typical government approach to doing an end run around rule of law.

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    LittleRedToyota wrote:
    Prophet wrote:
    So i went, open carrying as I do...

    On a side note,for those of you who are on pafoa.com I ran into annieoakley there.
    shoot. i wish i had met you guys.

    i was the one who "testified" in support of pete...though pete pretty much covered it all, so there wasn't much else for me to say.

    give me a description of yourselves, where you were sitting, etc. so i can put a face with the names.
    Annieoakley and I were in the back row. You probabably didn't see us. But we were the 2 people there that weren't with Pete, the opposition or on the board.

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