OC for military in Alaska?

AKRed · Sep 30, 2008

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An illegal order would be if your commander tells you to do something illegal.

It is not an illegal order when a local commander writes his own policy to keep order however he/she sees fit.

I have always disagreed with this policy too. In other areas, USARAK allows pretty easy use of firearms out in recreation areas etc, just not on main post. I cannot recall any military or Federal installation that allowed OC or CC.

It only takes a couple of knuckleheads to mess up things for everyone (ref: the soldiers in the "firefight" someone else mentioned in their previous post)

ainfantry7 · Sep 30, 2008

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Yep, it's a shame that I can't OC in Alaska of all states...

murphyslaw · Sep 30, 2008

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you are in the military, you have no rights as far as your government is concerned. you signed a piece of paper that said you would obey them and follow every command. They have commanded you not to carry while off duty, it is now your responsibility as a good soldier to obey that command.

When you are a civilian, YOU may command the government.

dont for a second think I am in line with it, its total BS in my book.

ainfantry7 · Oct 1, 2008

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That does make sense Navy LT...2a is just explaining...anyone else think the same thing?

ainfantry7 · Oct 1, 2008

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I see what you're saying then...I'll just have to make some more phone calls.

SlackwareRobert · Oct 2, 2008

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Your best bet is to go to the JAG, they will be more informed than the MP as
to the military law aspect. And unlike the civilian side, you alredy paid for it.
Unfortunatly you do give up your rights when you enlist, as for illegal orders
tell it to Micheal Noo. No one could show his illegal order as justified, and still dishonorably discharged.

1swellguy · Oct 2, 2008

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I believe this means OC is permitted but CC is not, whether on post or off post, when you are assigned to USARAK.

As a veteran, I realize that soldiers do (temporarily) give up certain Constitutional rights when they serve, but... that is no excuse for an officer to put soldiers in harm's way by stripping them of their right to self defense.

IMO - The commander who adopted that policy is a disgusting disgrace to the uniform.

I saw the item below when reading the Alaska ePost online in late July.

http://www.usarak.army.mil/alaskapost/Archives2008/080725/Jul25Story6.asp

Bill

ainfantry7 · Oct 2, 2008

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Well I called a couple law firms around the area, none of them had a clue what open carry was. They also said that they couldn't interperate anything on the phone. I'll just have to go back to JAG.

Baradium · Oct 2, 2008

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NavyLT wrote:

Well I called a couple law firms around the area, none of them had a clue what open carry was. They also said that they couldn't interperate anything on the phone. I'll just have to go back to JAG.

Click to expand...

Dude, let sleeping dogs lie. The regulation and the law are on your side. You keep bringing it up to everyone is going to get that regulation changed. And it is going to get it changed to ban all carrying of weapons. Do you honestly think that it was anything more than by mistake that it doesn't ban open carry? It's only because the General and his cronies were too stupid to know that open carry is legal in Alaska (off post).

What he said. Do you really have any doubts about what the regulation means now that you've seen the entire thing? It is VERY specific that it only intends to ban concealed carry. There is no reason to ask about it.

ainfantry7 · Oct 2, 2008

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NavyLT wrote:

What he said. Do you really have any doubts about what the regulation means now that you've seen the entire thing? It is VERY specific that it only intends to ban concealed carry. There is no reason to ask about it.

Click to expand...

If the OP does have doubts because of the definitions in 2A, maybe it would help to explain it this way.

ALL of the limitations set forth in Paragraph 2 must be met, AT THE SAME TIME, in order for the regulation to be broken. Example, 2A: Carry: If your gun is concealed in the trunk of your car in a public place, you have not broken the regulation. You meet the definitions of 2b, c, d and e, but you have NOT met the definition of 2a, therefore you have not broken the regulation.

If you carry the gun openly, within plain view, in public, you have met the definitions of 2a,b, d and e, but you do NOT meet the definition of c: concealed, therefore the regulation is not broken.

If you carry a child's dart gun, concealed, on your person, in public, you have met the definitions of 2a,c and e, but you do NOT meet the definition of b or d: deadly, firearm, because the projectile is not meant to be propelled by explosion or primer and the toy is not designed to cause death or serious harm.

If you carry a loaded handgun, on your person, concealed, in your own home, now you have met 2a, b, c and d, but not 2e: in a public place, therefor you have not broken the regulation.

Does that make it clear?

That's exactly what I was looking for...Thanks everyone! Now I can legally OC without a doubt that I would suffer from UCMJ.

daveit · Oct 4, 2008

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There are no policy letters concerning OC or CCW off base from the Air Force side.

Mike · Oct 4, 2008

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murphyslaw wrote:

being 18 you may carry. you CAN NOT conceal carry under 21.

You will need to get with your sponsor about the regulation of it. I know here about a yr ago the airforce or army(cant remember) passed a regulation making it illegal for soldiers off duty to carry while off base.

The one of a kind army reg. was issued by one command in Alaska and may not apply to you, depending on where you are stationed and or under what command - BUT BUT BUT - the reg only applies to CONCEALED CARRY.

So the you can OC without breaking that reg.

gizmo5 · Oct 24, 2008

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I am not allowed to convey or express my feelings about this...

:cuss:

BUT, I will say that a congressional inquiry will help...

FMCDH · Dec 16, 2008

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All I can say is, you poor bastard, you joined the wrong service!

I just got back home to Washington from a 3 year tour in Homer, Alaska...and the ONLY time I wasn't carrying my pistol was when I was working on the cutter. No command in the Coast Guard that I am aware of would even consider trying such a stunt. That would be like admitting that we can trust our guys to protect us at sea and overseas, but not at home. What kind of message is that??

I loved my time in Alaska and its laws on firearms will probably bring me back in another 4 years since I am spoiled in Washington too. We have our headaches, but we are working on that. Seattle city mayor has been a real pain in the neck lately.

When people question me on carrying a gun, I just remind them of my oath to protect America and its citizens from all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC!

The military and its members should never act the part of law enforcement on our streets, but if you cant trust a military member with a gun of ALL people, WHAT THE HELL ARE THEY DOING IN THE MILITARY???!!!

Just my little rant on the subject.

ainfantry7 · Dec 16, 2008

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It's a real pain to carry too. I can't bring my firearms on base without registering them with the MP's office. What I end up having to do is stop by where I keep my firearms, pick them up, and then I can carry...Unless I want to keep them in the arms room...which I'd be lucky if I could even get them out when hunting season rolls around.

FMCDH · Dec 16, 2008

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ainfantry7 wrote:

It's a real pain to carry too. I can't bring my firearms on base without registering them with the MP's office. What I end up having to do is stop by where I keep my firearms, pick them up, and then I can carry...Unless I want to keep them in the arms room...which I'd be lucky if I could even get them out when hunting season rolls around.

An entrepreneurial person might consider setting up a secure storage like building just outside the base, renting lockers to the "public". I imagine if a nearby gun store could get the room, it would be a lucrative business addition, implemented correctly.

Just a thought....

But seriously brother, I pity you. All I can say is get married and get off base on the economy if possible. Not sure how it works for you Army and Air Force guys, but there is NO "base" housing in Anchorage for Coast Guard.

Mike · Dec 17, 2008

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murphyslaw wrote:

You will need to get with your sponsor about the regulation of it. I know here about a yr ago the airforce or army(cant remember) passed a regulation making it illegal for soldiers off duty to carry while off base.

There was a regulation issued by one command but not applicable to all military in Alaska - but even then, the ban was ONLY on concealed carrry.

FMCDH · Dec 17, 2008

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Mike wrote:

There was a regulation issued by one command but not applicable to all military in Alaska - but even then, the ban was ONLY on concealed carrry.

Yep, but I was more focusing on the pain in the *&$% that ainfntry7 has to go through just to get his firearm every time he has to go off base. I understand fully where he is coming from.

Even Open Carry is a bit of a compromise considering the weather and environmental conditions that one experiences in Alaska. Not good for a lot of guns if you doing a fair bit of walking.

I would be willing to bet that if there is a new CO there now, he doesn't even realize that rule exists. Should you rock the waters?? That is up to him, as hes the one that has to live with it either way.

ainfantry7 · Dec 24, 2008

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Open carry in Alaskan weather can be a bit difficult when trying to keep your firearm from rusting to pieces...But it did give me an excuse to get the new Sig Carry Evolution 1911...It is stainless with a nitrate finish.

gruntpain1775 · Dec 29, 2008

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This policy goes beyond the scope of the Commanders authority. Yes, the commander can issue an order placeing establishments off limits but in this case it is differant. It is differant because it involves a Civil Liberty, and even though every one says you don't have them while you serve, you still do. He can issue an order like this for on post, but not off post. It would be the same as him saying you are not allowed to practive you religion off post or your off post quarters can be searched by your Chain of Command, it is beyond his scope of authority. Period. Ask JAG all you want but all they will tell you is whatever the policy letter states. Bottom line, if you get in trouble on the Army side of the house it would be punitive in nature, but your defense is the Constitution and the local laws governing you at the time, that being Alaska Laws.

OC for military in Alaska?

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