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Thread: OC in WA without concealed permit when LEO ask for it?

  1. #1
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    Sorry, greenhorn here and to be educated...glancing through forum…seems like people here OC also has conceal permit readyshould LEO asked if they had one. What happens if no? Simply more hassles? Sobest toapply for one anywaysso can transport in caror conceal ifchoose to?

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    Campaign Veteran Bookman's Avatar
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    Just tell the LEO you don't have to have one to OC. Don't get caught in a car, or on a bus, carrying without a license, though. THAT is illegal. That's also why most of us have a CPL.
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    If you use the same car every day than just keep your permit locked in your car, only place you will need it while OC.

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    NavyLT wrote:
    That is the reason that I got mine, was to be able to keep the handgun loaded when in the vehicle. HOWEVER, a loaded long gun is still illegal in the vehicle. So - if I am carrying in the vehicle, I will show LEO my permit. If I am OC outside the vehicle, I will not show LEO the permit because it is not required.
    Actually, you need to reread the law. There is a good case that if asked for your CPL, whether CCing or nor you would have yo show it if a LEO asks. Being a test case is an expensive deal.

    RCW 9.41.050

    ".......................shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.............................."

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    Bear,

    That's why some advocate leaving the CPL behind in the car--you can't show it if you don't have it, and you aren't required to carry it if you aren't concealing.

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    kparker wrote:
    Bear,

    That's why some advocate leaving the CPL behind in the car--you can't show it if you don't have it, and you aren't required to carry it if you aren't concealing.
    Not quite...

    Something many of you forget is that some state laws allow for restricting carry of a firearm (open or concealed) to only CPL holders, such as in a convention center. This means that if you are OC'ing at a public convention center, you have to have your CPL if they otherwise bar firearms or they can legally ask you to leave. Pretty much any employee of the convention center could legally ask to see your CPL per state law.
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    JAC,

    Sure, for that one restricted situation, you are absolutely correct. (Same as for OC loaded in a vehicle.)

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    kparker wrote:
    JAC,

    Sure, for that one restricted situation, you are absolutely correct. (Same as for OC loaded in a vehicle.)
    Just in case it wasn't clear, kparker, I wasn't going after you, specifically in my post... you were just the latest person that was saying you didn't need your CPL except for in your car or when concealing.

    I just wanted to make the point that there are locations and situations where you aren't in a car or not concealing where you may be legally required to present your CPL or you may be subject to trespass or prosecution.

    I think it's best if we all just carry our CPL for those times we may need it, but present it only when required to by law (and, for those that want to take a more diplomatic route in certain situations, when warranted to John Q. Public).
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    RCW 9.41.050

    ".......................shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.............................."


    What I take to be the correct interpretation of the law would be that you are only "required by law to do so" if you are, or were, concealing. Anyone with a different take or rebuttal?

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    TRAKATAK wrote:
    RCW 9.41.050

    ".......................shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.............................."


    What I take to be the correct interpretation of the law would be that you are only "required by law to do so" if you are, or were, concealing. Anyone with a different take or rebuttal?
    Yes, look three posts up from your's. *facepalm*
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    TRAKATAK wrote:
    RCW 9.41.050

    ".......................shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so.............................."


    What I take to be the correct interpretation of the law would be that you are only "required by law to do so" if you are, or were, concealing. Anyone with a different take or rebuttal?
    Anyplace, as JAC pointed out above, that CPL holders are exempted from exclusion would require that you have your CPL to enter with your pistol concealing or not.
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    just_a_car,

    No problem. I just find the advice to carry it always "just in case" to be a bit puzzling--I can't remember a single time in my life where I found myself accidentally going into a convention center. Unknowingly passing within range of a school, now that's of course a different question, but I don't see where the federal law says anything about having to have the license on your person, merely that you be licensed.


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    Hiibel v.Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, 542 U.S. 177 (2004). Even where state has established a duty to carry a license for some activity, absent RAS for the stop, the license cannot be demanded. State v Peters, 2008 WL2185754 (Wis. App.Idist. 2008) (driver of vehicle has no duty to produce drivers license absent RAS (citing Hiibel). Law enforcement officers seizing persons for refusal to show identification are "not entitled to dismissal of [42USC 1983 claims] based on qualified immunity." Stuffelbeam v. Harris, 521 F.3rd 884, 889 (8th Cir.2008)

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    Oops. I posted in a hurry and should have looked more thoroughly first. My apologies to all for wasting message board space.

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